Videokarma.org

Go Back   Videokarma.org TV - Video - Vintage Television & Radio Forums > Transistor Radio

We appreciate your help

in keeping this site going.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 09-12-2019, 02:16 AM
vortalexfan vortalexfan is offline
VideoKarma Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Northern Indiana
Posts: 1,848
Pioneer SX-737 issues

Hello everyone, the other day I was given a Pioneer SX-737 Stereo Receiver that had the infamous static rumble that was coming out of the speakers that was an indicator of failed differential transistors in the amplifier stage (which in this stereo's case was a set of 4 matched 2SA726 Transitors, of which the modern replacements were KSA992 transistors).

Well I replaced the transistors the first time around and didn't realize that the emitter and base on the KSA992 transistors were reversed from what the original 2SA726 Transistors were so I ended up installing the replacements incorrectly and when I powered it on all I got was a loud hum out of the speakers so I quickly shut the stereo down and looked up the specs of the KSA992 transistors which was when I found a thread from AudioKarma that dealt with this issue and I figured out that I had the replacement transistors in backwards (the flat side of the transistor should of been facing the front of the stereo and not the back of the stereo like the originals did).

Anyways I took out the first replacements and installed another set of replacements (making sure they were in the correct orientation this time) and after I replaced the transistors the second time around I went to test my work and this time there was no audio period (no hum, or anything) and the protection relay wasn't even kicking in either (whereas before even with the original faulty transistors in the stereo the unit worked fine just too noisy to properly enjoy).

I did read in the service manual for this stereo receiver that the amplifier board has to be rebiased everytime a transistor is replaced on the board but I'm not sure if that's my problem or not.

Any ideas as to what could be causing my issues?

Last edited by vortalexfan; 09-12-2019 at 02:20 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 09-12-2019, 10:28 AM
Ed in Tx's Avatar
Ed in Tx Ed in Tx is offline
Zenith Walton My 1st TV
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: DFW
Posts: 1,414
DC on the outputs detected by the protection circuit doing its job preventing DC to the speaker connectors. Probably fried a final or more and\or drivers, maybe a diode or more. Resistors need checking too. No telling with no checking for shorted transistors etc., but that's where you need to start.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 09-13-2019, 02:45 AM
vortalexfan vortalexfan is offline
VideoKarma Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Northern Indiana
Posts: 1,848
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed in Tx View Post
DC on the outputs detected by the protection circuit doing its job preventing DC to the speaker connectors. Probably fried a final or more and\or drivers, maybe a diode or more. Resistors need checking too. No telling with no checking for shorted transistors etc., but that's where you need to start.
So basically you're saying that I fried the output transistors and some other components in that path when I accidentally installed the replacement differential transistors in the wrong way.

If that's the case then I may just have to junk this receiver out then because there's no way I'm going to find some replacement output transistors for this receiver because they're the old socketed Germanium output transistors which are no longer made and they don't have any modern replacement's for them either.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 09-13-2019, 08:47 AM
Electronic M's Avatar
Electronic M Electronic M is offline
M is for Memory
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Pewaukee/Delafield Wi
Posts: 14,758
I've been told there's a good stock of Russian germanium transistors on IIRC ebay.
__________________
Tom C.

Zenith: The quality stays in EVEN after the name falls off!
What I want. --> http://www.videokarma.org/showpost.p...62&postcount=4
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 09-13-2019, 09:04 AM
vortalexfan vortalexfan is offline
VideoKarma Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Northern Indiana
Posts: 1,848
Quote:
Originally Posted by Electronic M View Post
I've been told there's a good stock of Russian germanium transistors on IIRC ebay.
Would they be direct replacements for a 2SD370 and a 2SB530?

I'm wondering because that's what this receiver uses for its output transistors.

Also how do I test to see if the output transistors are truly fried on this receiver?
Reply With Quote
Audiokarma
  #6  
Old 09-13-2019, 10:42 AM
Electronic M's Avatar
Electronic M Electronic M is offline
M is for Memory
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Pewaukee/Delafield Wi
Posts: 14,758
Beats me I don't like SS amps enough to service them...IIRC the folks I heard that from said you have to do your own research to find subs.
__________________
Tom C.

Zenith: The quality stays in EVEN after the name falls off!
What I want. --> http://www.videokarma.org/showpost.p...62&postcount=4
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 09-13-2019, 11:01 AM
vortalexfan vortalexfan is offline
VideoKarma Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Northern Indiana
Posts: 1,848
Quote:
Originally Posted by Electronic M View Post
Beats me I don't like SS amps enough to service them...IIRC the folks I heard that from said you have to do your own research to find subs.
It's not an amplifier, it's a receiver.

And if I have to research the substitutes for the output transistors for this receiver myself then that basically just puts me back to square one, basically I might as well junk out the stereo because it's not worth my time and money to have to scour every dark corner of the internet just to try and find a NOS Russian Germanium output transistor substitute for my receiver that may or not even exist!.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 09-13-2019, 12:07 PM
jr_tech's Avatar
jr_tech jr_tech is offline
VideoKarma Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 4,510
2SD370 and 2SB530 are silicon transistors.

jr
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 09-13-2019, 12:10 PM
Electronic M's Avatar
Electronic M Electronic M is offline
M is for Memory
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Pewaukee/Delafield Wi
Posts: 14,758
Quote:
Originally Posted by vortalexfan View Post
It's not an amplifier, it's a receiver.

And if I have to research the substitutes for the output transistors for this receiver myself then that basically just puts me back to square one, basically I might as well junk out the stereo because it's not worth my time and money to have to scour every dark corner of the internet just to try and find a NOS Russian Germanium output transistor substitute for my receiver that may or not even exist!.
It makes no difference to me whether it is a amp or reciever or a transistor am portable...SS is SS, and I barely care about it.

Compare datasheets between what what you have and what you think might work.
Not everything is going to be handed to anyone trying to repair vintage gear. Sometimes you gotta do the research to fix something....may as well get good at research... Folks who know are dying off. And sometimes even if there is someone who will hand you the answer if you know how to pull it from documents you find it faster yourself.

It ain't my problem if your not motivated enough to follow up on some potentially helpful advice...
Some categories of things you probably should not buy broken in the first place if you are not interested in putting in some effort to fix...I walk away from stuff for that reason regularly.
__________________
Tom C.

Zenith: The quality stays in EVEN after the name falls off!
What I want. --> http://www.videokarma.org/showpost.p...62&postcount=4
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 09-13-2019, 12:26 PM
maxhifi's Avatar
maxhifi maxhifi is offline
VideoKarma Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,841
Quote:
Originally Posted by vortalexfan View Post
It's not an amplifier, it's a receiver.

And if I have to research the substitutes for the output transistors for this receiver myself then that basically just puts me back to square one, basically I might as well junk out the stereo because it's not worth my time and money to have to scour every dark corner of the internet just to try and find a NOS Russian Germanium output transistor substitute for my receiver that may or not even exist!.
Hi-fi amplifiers are usually direct coupled - which means shorting out one transistor has a strong chance to short out every other transistor on the amplifier board.

You will need to check them all now. Actually, I suggest to join Audiokarma and post this question in the Pioneer sub-forum, you will get good suggestions for replacement parts. Most people use On-Semi transistors which you can get from Mouser or Digikey for 70s Japanese stuff.
Reply With Quote
Audiokarma
  #11  
Old 09-13-2019, 12:31 PM
Ed in Tx's Avatar
Ed in Tx Ed in Tx is offline
Zenith Walton My 1st TV
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: DFW
Posts: 1,414
Quote:
Originally Posted by vortalexfan View Post
Also how do I test to see if the output transistors are truly fried on this receiver?
Simple E-B-C testing of any of the transistors with an Ohm meter would tell you if they are shorted. E to B and C to B should test like a diode, conduct one way, not the other. I'm sure there's a Youtube video somewhere explaining how to do that.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 09-13-2019, 12:35 PM
maxhifi's Avatar
maxhifi maxhifi is offline
VideoKarma Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,841
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed in Tx View Post
Simple E-B-C testing of any of the transistors with an Ohm meter would tell you if they are shorted. E to B and C to B should test like a diode, conduct one way, not the other. I'm sure there's a Youtube video somewhere explaining how to do that.
Better yet would be the diode check function of a multimeter, so you can read the junction voltage. This is really basic stuff, and every transistor on that channel will need to be checked now.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 09-13-2019, 01:25 PM
jr_tech's Avatar
jr_tech jr_tech is offline
VideoKarma Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 4,510
An inexpensive China tester is another alternative.



Shown testing a common TO-3 packaged 2n3055 npn silicon power transistor.

jr
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 09-13-2019, 02:37 PM
Titan1a Titan1a is offline
VideoKarma Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Plattsmouth, NE 68048
Posts: 738
The Pioneer SX-737 is known for weak electrolytic caps and output transisters. Perhaps the differential transistors just brought these down early.
__________________
Rick (Sparks) Ethridge
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 10-04-2019, 11:54 AM
Zenith26kc20's Avatar
Zenith26kc20 Zenith26kc20 is offline
VideoKarma Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: New Orleans
Posts: 824
Start by checking the emitter resistors (very low value resistors by the output transistors. They open in case of a short in the output transistors. If they are good, you need to look up "dim bulb tester". It's a lightbulb in series with the hot lead of an extension cord. If you have a variac, much better. Like mentioned earlier, a simple DVM in diode check mode can find gross faults in transistors. I have repaired many Pioneer receivers and I have no problem with that model.
Look for the output inductor (one per channel) and check from ground to the inductor with a DVM for voltage. A few millivolts is OK, volts are going to keep the speaker relay from closing. Look also for blown fuses.
A schematic can be very helpful.
Do not use output transistors from EBAY. You will get counterfeit devices that will fail and you will go in circles. As mentioned earlier, ON semiconductors work in that receiver.
Go slow and be careful and you will get it going. Be careful reading about "rebuilding" the power supply. Output failure rarely damages the power supply.
Reply With Quote
Audiokarma
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:18 AM.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
©Copyright 2012 VideoKarma.org, All rights reserved.