The preslector gearbox

[old_tv_nut]

My dad went through the American transition from manual to automatic transmissions as a mechanic and service manager, and always said it was harder to learn on manual and change to automatic than the other way around. Not having a mental reset to try it both ways, I can't say for sure. Anyway, he insisted I learn on a manual (the driving school car) and then take the exam on an automatic (our family car).

Yes, the manual took a little practice to get the feel of the clutch, but it wasn't that bad. The first time I approached a red light that turned green before I got there and shifted down into second to accelerate again, the instructor said "Where did you learn that?" I wanted to brag that I was an engineering student and understood the principles, but I just smiled.

[Telecolor 3007]

Originally Posted by Sandy G

In getting back to preselector gearboxes, I remember reading a very little bit about them over the years. Nothing much really stands out, w/the exception that they were somewhat troublesome & maybe were typically installed in racing/high performance cars. I seem to remember another brand being "Cotal", but again nothing much beyond that name comes to mind. One slight tidbit-I think Ralph Stein mentioned in one of his books was that one driver in one race that I can't remember where or when, flubbed a gearchange w/one & blew the motor. I don't know how much stock I'd put into that story, since I can't remember any further details than what I related, & for that I'm sorry, but there you go....

Cotal was French. Electric operated. Used in some luxury cars too.
I heared it wasn't so relaible. And I'm not sure it was a preselector.

Last night I dreamed that I drove an '30's preselector gerabox automobile. Not a specific brand, since the body style was more of a combination between "Croslley", "Riley" and "Talbot" London. Black + blue.

[Sandy G]

I learnt to drive in an automatic, my mother couldn't/wouldn't drive a manual, so that kinda took care of THAT. When I did set out to learn a manual, I had a day or 2 of stalling, embarrassing myself & so forth, but soon got everything "Sorted Out". In my old age now, I'm lazy, & have strictly "Slushboxes". But, my daily driver, the ginormous Excursion, they only came w/autos, my '67 Lincoln, the '73 Fleetwood Brougham Caddy & my wife's 2014 Touareg they were the same way-Only available w/autos. The Caddy was my Grandad's Pride & Joy-He always wanted the biggest, nastiest Cad they made, he & my granny went to Louisville, Kentucky on business one weekend, it was in a Dealer's near their hotel. It started Talking To him, about half an hour later, he went to pick her up in his flashy new ride. How much was it, Fritz ? she asked. $10, 243,78 he answered. You spent TEN THOUSAND DOLLARS on a CAR ?!? Are you outta your MIND ?!? I think she blew 3 gaskets over that car. She was so damn mad at him, she wouldn't speak to him all the way home, & she stayed "Fuzzed Up" for about a month. He was like 75 at the time, he still worked, he never took vacations, never spent money frivolously-Except on this-and always kept his head down & minded his own business. We only let him drive it a year or 2 after that, & then my dad & uncle took his keys away-he just wasn't safe anymore. But for a while, "Fritz" got his great big toy-And there wasn't a happier guy around. I'll never sell it-its one of the few things of his that I have.

[nasadowsk]

Originally Posted by Sandy G

Yeah, Daimler-Benz started focusing on vehicle safety not long after the shooting stopped in 1945.

Oddly, at both the Deutsches Museum (Munich) and the Benz Museum (Stutgart), both exhibits talked about the Americans being ahead in safety research after the war. Which struck me as weird coming from the US. Then again, we did have highway research, Jersey Barriers, etc come around back then, and GM, Ford, et al did smash a lot of instrumented cars, even if the production stuff were deathtraps.

(And even today, the X frame is controversial...)

[Sandy G]

The "Wasp-Waisted" X frames of 1957-64 were, IMHO one of the WORST engineering fiascos ever foisted on an unknowing public. That, & the fact they used 14" tires w/corresponding smaller brakes on the monster sized cars of the era, wasn't too swift, either. Why did they do it ? Styling. Pure & simple. They wanted to lower the heights of cars, they were able to trim an inch or 2 out of the heights, yet keep mostly the cavernous sized interiors. I always fell out w/Ralph Nader over his preoccupation w/ silly things like hood ornaments, yet he RARELY or NEVER looked at roadholding, braking standards,better tires, things that would have REALLY made a difference. I tell you, watching the video of that poor 1959 Impala has always made me truly physically ill. And it tells you almost everything you need to know about them damnable X frames... But, would I have a '59 Impala in crackerjack shape like that one was ? You bet your Sweet Bippy I would.... Those "Suicide-Door Lincolns" are dangerous, too-They tend to collapse if tapped in the rear-But TRY & take away one of mine...

[Sandy G]

Before I get accused of being a "Blowhard" over Fritz's Caddy, I guess I should tell you the OTHER side of the story. It was, & IS a very flashy, impressive car. It also was/is a MONUMENTAL pile of Junk. The whole car, even from Day One, has always felt all "Loosy-Goosy", like every nut, bolt & screw in it oughta be given a few more turns w/a screwdriver or wrench, & REALLY tightened up. Its a '73, its built to those infamous, "Hell, Bob, that's close enuf for Government work" quality control standards. NOTHING really fits right on it. Its about the "Top Dawg" car in GM's Top of the line division", & the quality of the fabrics, leathers & so on-Well, even the Soviets would have likely put better materials in their cars. Being a '73, it was caught up in the era where the Government had decided that our cars were killing us quickly by all the pollution they put out, so we had ever-tightening emissions standards-That few mechanics in the field understood, knew how to work on, or even cared. A LOT of the early pollution junk got removed or disconnected because the cars drove & performed terribly, you could trash all that stuff, & they'd come close to performing like they did a few years earlier. The Cad has a 472 cubic inch displacement V-8 , I think that;s right at 8 liters for our Metric Friends, even with its astounding size-233" long, 4999 lbs, it should be able to run away & hide from nearly everything else on the road. Well, uhh, no. It feels no more powerful than yr average Riding Lawnmower. Also, most of the emissions crapola worked at cross purposes to Fuel Economy, so this mighty beast can only manage about 6 MPG in town, & a rousing 9-10 on the highway... A few other gripes-Generous Motors started experimenting w/water based paint about then, it has NEVER been sable to take a good wash & wax job. GM also decided that the vinyl tops that were standard on these beasts didn't need to be painted underneath the vinyl, so by '78 or so, you could almost poke yr thumb thru the top, especially around the rear window, which held water quite well... I'd send the car to Telecolor, but I'd think it would likely lead to a Declaration of War between America & Romania... Those guys have suffered ENUF, w/ Chowchesku & his ugly-ass wife, & having to live next to Albania.... (Grin)

[old_tv_nut]

Sandy, that's what I like about you, giving a balanced description (at least when you're calmed down a bit).

One Saturday, my dad did a basic tune-up on our pre-pollution car, and told me "watch what we'll do." We took it right over to the Lung Association free pollution check, and the guy there thought at first his meter wasn't reading right. But it was a nice day, 75 degrees outside, and my dad informed me that if we went back the next day the readings would be much worse. A carbureted engine without electronic control is basically unable to maintain precise combustion under all conditions, and has to run rich to avoid ever running too lean. Then came the early pollution controls, which essentially detuned the spark timing for more complete combustion but much lower power and efficiency. Once we got fuel injection and engine computers, we Chicagoans lost an excuse for not going to work in the winter - "the car won't start." If I have the numbers right, the V-6 in my 2013 Mustang gets nearly 1.5 HP per cube, on regular, which back then would have meant a temperamental hot rod running high octane.

[Sandy G]

Well, I've ALWAYS loved cars, the only reason I learnt to read was to be able to read Ralph Stein's books, Motor Trend, Road& Track, Car & Driver, etc. As an OBVIOUS Omniscient, I feel a need to share w/you Mere Mortals at least SOME of the wealth of my knowledge about motor vehicles. I try to be as factual as possible, given my basically PSYCHOTIC mind & undeniably DISAGREEABLE temperament. At least I haven't threatened to kill any one of the 7-8 Indian Scammer calls I get daily. I barely get done w/enquiring about the Maternal sexual preferences of ONE of those LOVELY young chaps til ANOTHER one calls, wanting to Lower my Eenterest rates, pay off my Stoodent Loans, or re-up the warrantee on my car...But it IS likely a very good thing for Old Indio that I'm NOT privy to the "Go Codes" for Bongo-52s....Mbwahahahahahahaha...

[MadMan]

Come to think of it, technically the preselect gearbox is still alive... in the automated manual transmissions. Like VW's dual clutch trans, that is basically like two separate manual transmissions in one unit, one has even gears, and one has odd gears. Each has its own clutch. While accelerating in 1st, for example, the second gearbox is 'preselected' in 2nd gear, and then the computer disengages one clutch, engages the other, and then the first gearbox gets preselected into 3rd. And so on. Naturally, the problem occurs when you do something that the computer can't anticipate. Like accelerating right to the shift point and then slowing down.

They're stupidly complicated for what's basically a glorified manual transmission. IMO, saving the tiny amount of torque converter losses isn't justified by using a manual transmission that's as complicated as an automatic, but without some of the benefits... like working properly.

[Telecolor 3007]

True that some modern models are manual - automatic.
But for me, a simpler meachincal mechanism, like the preslector looks more intresting. But hydraulic transimision still haves some torque loss. Some of the modern automatics don't have the hydraulic transmision.

[MadMan]

Well either which way, if you're going to buy a car, just buy whatever you like. You'll inevitably learn to drive a manual, anyway. My only suggestion is that if you live in a city with lots of stop-and-go traffic, OR a place with lots of hills, try to get an automatic. You will be so much happier.

[Electronic M]

One option to have the satisfaction of being able to manually ratchet through gears but still have an automatic is to get a 90s Honda Prelude. They have an automatic where in the drive position you can wiggle the shifter forward and back to manually increment and decrement the gears. A friend of mine had one and drove it like a bat outa hell all the time...Twas a fun car but not good for hauling stuff.

[Telecolor 3007]

Why it isn't good for hauling stuff?

[Electronic M]

Originally Posted by Telecolor 3007

Why it isn't good for hauling stuff?

It's a fuckn tiny car... Could practically park it on the hood of my 78 Lincoln Mark V.

[Sandy G]

Do NOT limit yrself toa small car. Maybe you don't need something as huge as my Excursion-Even I don't need it ALL the time-but some day you WILL want/need to have something that can hold a LOT of stuff. When I got my Suburban-Which was only slightly smaller-I found it as handy as the pocket on yr shirt, & soon wondered how I ever got along with out it.