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Old 08-15-2019, 04:50 PM
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Schematic for amp in Columbia CCD-2 record player?

A friend brought one of these for me to "look at". Said it probably "just needs a needle". Yeah right. That's just the start. Not finding any info at all, and specifically a schematic for the amplifier in this suitcase tube stereo. Anyone point me in the right direction?
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  #2  
Old 08-25-2019, 12:12 AM
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What is the tube complement of the amp... perhaps it is similar to another model.

I’m guessing a 12AX7 and two 50C5s.

jr
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Old 08-25-2019, 08:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jr_tech View Post
What is the tube complement of the amp... perhaps it is similar to another model.

I’m guessing a 12AX7 and two 50C5s.

jr

Thanks.. appreciate the reply. Seems to be an unusual model. I'll have to get the owner look if the tubes are even in it. We didn't get that far yet.
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Old 08-25-2019, 09:20 PM
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I've seen similar units badged Symphonic, Decca, Capital and others. All used a similar amp, don't know who made them. They had a power transformer, used 6BQ5's, a 12AX7, and a 6CA4 rectifier. Had couplates in the tone control and coupling circuits. Sounded fine.
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Old 08-27-2019, 10:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed in Tx View Post
A friend brought one of these for me to "look at". Said it probably "just needs a needle". Yeah right. That's just the start. Not finding any info at all, and specifically a schematic for the amplifier in this suitcase tube stereo. Anyone point me in the right direction?
The amp should be simple enough you don't really need a schematic.

The big work on those, is making the changer work - it will be all full of degraded grease, and will need a full disassembly, lubrication, and reassembly. Add to that a new idler wheel, maybe a new cartridge, and at a minimum a new needle.

Recap the amp, at least electrolytic and paper capacitors - tube probably still good.

I REFUSE to work on these for people, at this point. Not worth the time, to be honest - you'll have two days and $100 of parts into something which you'll be lucky to get $100 for at the end of the day. On the other hand, if it's for fun, it can be cool to see it going.

The thing is, even when working correctly they sound kind of bad - those old turntables aren't stable like a direct drive or even a good belt drive, and they track too heavy. The dried out suspension of most old ceramic cartridges is hard on records and adds a bit of unwelcome distortion.

Last edited by maxhifi; 08-27-2019 at 10:20 AM.
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Old 08-27-2019, 10:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maxhifi View Post
The amp should be simple enough you don't really need a schematic.

The big work on those, is making the changer work - it will be all full of degraded grease, and will need a full disassembly, lubrication, and reassembly. Add to that a new idler wheel, maybe a new cartridge, and at a minimum a new needle.

Recap the amp, at least electrolytic and paper capacitors - tube probably still good.

I REFUSE to work on these for people, at this point. Not worth the time, to be honest - you'll have two days and $100 of parts into something which you'll be lucky to get $100 for at the end of the day. On the other hand, if it's for fun, it can be cool to see it going.

The thing is, even when working correctly they sound kind of bad - those old turntables aren't stable like a direct drive or even a good belt drive, and they track too heavy. The dried out suspension of most old ceramic cartridges is hard on records and adds a bit of unwelcome distortion.
Good advice! My sentiments exactly on getting it going. The auto turntable will likely take the most time and effort, and I'm not even sure they want to spend 20 to 25 bucks on a new "needle" stylus. And I wouldn't want to play any of my records on it. These are the things you could wear out records on.
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Old 08-27-2019, 10:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Ed in Tx View Post
Good advice! My sentiments exactly on getting it going. The auto turntable will likely take the most time and effort, and I'm not even sure they want to spend 20 to 25 bucks on a new "needle" stylus. And I wouldn't want to play any of my records on it. These are the things you could wear out records on.
Sad but true. And actually mostly also true when it was new - I will work on the more simple manual portables for people, but I draw the line on changers - way too far into the "not worth it" category.
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Old 08-27-2019, 10:53 AM
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Depends on the mech I've had a good number of webcor changers that still mechanically work just fine and even had decent idler wheels.

If the amp is good enough for one of those buck china cartridges (and doesn't have some dead 2.5V output grid drive cart that costs more than a chunk of gold it's size) it can be a cheap and fun project..

I have so little time these days that it is hard to get me to touch somebody's project even if you wave money in my face...may have better luck getting me to fix somethings by giving it to me and hoping I spruce it and flip it and yer there when I try to sell it... at least one customer unknowingly accomplished this by giving me some console radios...
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Old 08-27-2019, 11:01 AM
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Webcor have bad rubber grommets in the arm which you have to replace, and then a hard to find idler wheel. I also don't like how they have a gear which always turns with the platter and never disengages. They seem quite prone to rumble issues.

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I have so little time these days that it is hard to get me to touch somebody's project even if you wave money in my face...may have better luck getting me to fix somethings by giving it to me and hoping I spruce it and flip it and yer there when I try to sell it... at least one customer unknowingly accomplished this by giving me some console radios...
This being the perpetual issue... In the time it takes to make that thing work, there's many other more profitable things I could do.

That's a VM changer, they aren't junk, but any changer being done for someone else is by definition a pain in the neck, and if I have to spend a few hours messing with the trip mech to make it work right, and then suddenly the arm starts going to the 45 position when I have LP selected, I'd regret taking on the whole project.

I actually end up regretting it every time I take on a changer for someone - it seems invariably when people find out I'm interested in vintage electronics, someone wants me to fix a crappy old console or portable player with a dilapidated old changer at its heart.

The only ones I will happily touch for someone else these days are 70s BSR changers, with the slim line cartridge. I can usually make one run reliably with less than an hour's work, and the mechanisms are almost bulletproof. They are also reasonably easy on records, usually have good idlers still, and the styli are cheap. I'd rather do 3 BSRs than a single Dual or Collaro

Last edited by maxhifi; 08-27-2019 at 11:04 AM.
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Old 08-27-2019, 12:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maxhifi View Post
Webcor have bad rubber grommets in the arm which you have to replace, and then a hard to find idler wheel. I also don't like how they have a gear which always turns with the platter and never disengages. They seem quite prone to rumble issues.



This being the perpetual issue... In the time it takes to make that thing work, there's many other more profitable things I could do.

That's a VM changer, they aren't junk, but any changer being done for someone else is by definition a pain in the neck, and if I have to spend a few hours messing with the trip mech to make it work right, and then suddenly the arm starts going to the 45 position when I have LP selected, I'd regret taking on the whole project.

I actually end up regretting it every time I take on a changer for someone - it seems invariably when people find out I'm interested in vintage electronics, someone wants me to fix a crappy old console or portable player with a dilapidated old changer at its heart.

The only ones I will happily touch for someone else these days are 70s BSR changers, with the slim line cartridge. I can usually make one run reliably with less than an hour's work, and the mechanisms are almost bulletproof. They are also reasonably easy on records, usually have good idlers still, and the styli are cheap. I'd rather do 3 BSRs than a single Dual or Collaro
Never seen an arm grommet fail. The double decker idler is the same part the RCA RP-168 and RP-190 45rpm mini changers use. In addition to those being available there are also kits to replace it with a copper pulley and a couple silicone O rings....I do enough RCAs that I've been considering making a mold of the pulley and casting my own.

Collaros are a bit of a pain but the conquer with it's arm size feeler that can play all sizes (even odd duck non-standard sizes) intermixed from biggest to smallest has become my second favorite (Glasser steers GS77 beats it) 4 speed changer from a user perspective...a mechanism that cool at least if I'm keeping it is worth the effort.
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  #11  
Old 08-27-2019, 06:47 PM
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Never seen an arm grommet fail. The double decker idler is the same part the RCA RP-168 and RP-190 45rpm mini changers use. In addition to those being available there are also kits to replace it with a copper pulley and a couple silicone O rings....I do enough RCAs that I've been considering making a mold of the pulley and casting my own.

Collaros are a bit of a pain but the conquer with it's arm size feeler that can play all sizes (even odd duck non-standard sizes) intermixed from biggest to smallest has become my second favorite (Glasser steers GS77 beats it) 4 speed changer from a user perspective...a mechanism that cool at least if I'm keeping it is worth the effort.
If you do make the RCA mold, sign me up for one if you make a pile of them! I haven't had great luck with the VM rebuilds, they often come a bit our of tolerance.

We could have different webcor changers, mine is a 1953 model, with a GE cartridge. The rotted grommet makes the whole arm sag. I bought a service manual and compiled a parts list but never finished that job.

The Collaro I last rebuilt had a lot of corrosion on the cadmium plated parts, and it took a lot more time than I wanted.

I actuslly dont mind rebuilding changers on my own time, for personal use - but for someone else it just isn't worth it to me, I can never recover the time and money, and don't find the process sufficiently rewarding on it's own.
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