1950s or '60s vintage Zenith TVs, Need some info

[init4fun]

Originally Posted by vortalexfan

Boy I hope that's not the case, otherwise that Bugeye TV is just going to be a paperweight, as I doubt I'd be able to source a proper yoke for that TV.

The picture of the Zenith Bugeye TV powered on is posted in the first posting on here, its the very first picture in my first post in this thread, could you tell me if the picture that is being produced by the aforementioned Zenith Bugeye TV is indeed a failed Yoke or if its something else?

Vortelexfan, the TV your interested in is NOT displaying the classic trapezoidal raster associated with a shorted yoke, it is displaying the symptom of a badly failed vertical deflection circuit. To have a trapezoidal raster you must first HAVE a raster(a fully lit CRT screen) which that TV does not have due to the failed vertical circuit. Once the TV is displaying a proper raster only then can things like a trapezoidal raster be seen. If, after the vertical deflection is restored you end up with a pie shaped picture then you can go with the presumption of a shorted yoke, but at least get a fully lit screen before you go buying any yokes

[Notimetolooz]

Deleted.

[old_coot88]

The sreep camera angle may be may be what's causing the raster to appear tapered. Is there any chance of seeing how it looks from face-on?

[vortalexfan]

Unfortunately the owner of the TV's is out of town until tomorrow, and those pictures I posted were the only pictures he had of it.

When I was messaging the guy about the TVs and trying to see if he would budge from his price, I told him that I would like to see the TVs in person before I dropped $120 on them because of the fact I didn't want to get burned on something that wasn't as pictured.

It was kind of frustrating that he wouldn't budge from his price at all because he said that the bigger Zenith was in untested/unknown working order, which I tried to use that fact in the bargaining of the price, but he insisted on $60 a piece, even though I offered him what I thought was more than a fair price for the bigger Zenith considering it was in unknown working order (I had offered him $40 for that TV which is more than generous for a TV that is in unknown working order.)

Unfortunately he used a threat of "If you don't take the two for $120, then I have two other people who are more than willing to pay that including a woman who was going to make them into fish tanks" to keep his price.

I had initially messaged him about the Zenith Bugeye TV, and that he only wanted $60 for, but then, he messaged me later on saying he had another older Zenith "For Sale" and he sent some pictures of it in messenger (in this case only two pictures and they weren't very good pictures because they didn't even show the back of the TV) and said that it was "untested" and then said that I could have that one too if I wanted, and I said how much and he said "shoot me an offer" and I did which I said "how about since its working condition isn't know why don't you just throw it in with the price of the other TV" and he said "Nah, I can't do that" and so then I offered him $25 again citing the fact that the TV is in unknown working order, and he said "that's too low" and that's when he said "$120 for both" and I said "can you do $80 for both?" and he said "nope $120 or its going to some lady who is going to turn them into fish tanks" and that's when I agreed to the price.

The part where he said he was "out of town until Monday" (and this was this past Wednesday) kind of scares me a bit, because when I tried asking him when where he wanted to meet up for me to get the TVs from him, that was when he said "I'm out of town until Monday".
Which I'm hoping that isn't a sign that he's nothing more than a scammer.

I say that because there has been for about 3 months now several listings on Facebook Marketplace from a local guy who supposedly has a storage unit full of 1930s-1950s vintage Console Radios for sale between $10-$150 depending on the make and model, and he said he had Stewart-Warner, Zenith, Stromberg-Carlson, Silvertone, Philco, Wards-Airline, Farnsworth, Capehart, etc.
So I messaged the guy asking him for specific model numbers of some of the radios, specifically the Stewart-Warner, Zenith, Stromberg-Carlson, Farnsworth and Capehart units, and he never messaged me back and that was over 2 weeks ago.

The weird part is that when I look at the conversation/message I sent to this guy, the listing says "the item has been removed by the seller" which makes me think that those listings are scams, and because of that, I'm hoping that isn't the case with these Zenith TVs.

[vortalexfan]

Originally Posted by init4fun

Vortelexfan, the TV your interested in is NOT displaying the classic trapezoidal raster associated with a shorted yoke, it is displaying the symptom of a badly failed vertical deflection circuit. To have a trapezoidal raster you must first HAVE a raster(a fully lit CRT screen) which that TV does not have due to the failed vertical circuit. Once the TV is displaying a proper raster only then can things like a trapezoidal raster be seen. If, after the vertical deflection is restored you end up with a pie shaped picture then you can go with the presumption of a shorted yoke, but at least get a fully lit screen before you go buying any yokes

My guess is that (from my previous experience with older TVs like this that i've worked on so far which is 2 TVs that I've successfully repaired/restored, and one that I gave up on and passed onto another member who lives locally) maybe a bad vertical output tube or some bad caps in the vertical stage, the reason why I suspect a bad vertical output/oscillator tube is because two of the 3 TVs I've worked on so far (a Philco Townhouse TV from 1962 and an RCA TV from the same time period) both had failed vertical deflection and they both used the same Vertical Output tube which is a 6DR7 Tube and in both of those sets that tube failed (and from what I've read, that tube is notorious for failing prematurely because it was driven hard in those TVs, and also because it wasn't a well designed tube to begin with.)

[dieseljeep]

Originally Posted by vortalexfan

Unfortunately the owner of the TV's is out of town until tomorrow, and those pictures I posted were the only pictures he had of it.

When I was messaging the guy about the TVs and trying to see if he would budge from his price, I told him that I would like to see the TVs in person before I dropped $120 on them because of the fact I didn't want to get burned on something that wasn't as pictured.

It was kind of frustrating that he wouldn't budge from his price at all because he said that the bigger Zenith was in untested/unknown working order, which I tried to use that fact in the bargaining of the price, but he insisted on $60 a piece, even though I offered him what I thought was more than a fair price for the bigger Zenith considering it was in unknown working order (I had offered him $40 for that TV which is more than generous for a TV that is in unknown working order.)

Unfortunately he used a threat of "If you don't take the two for $120, then I have two other people who are more than willing to pay that including a woman who was going to make them into fish tanks" to keep his price.

I had initially messaged him about the Zenith Bugeye TV, and that he only wanted $60 for, but then, he messaged me later on saying he had another older Zenith "For Sale" and he sent some pictures of it in messenger (in this case only two pictures and they weren't very good pictures because they didn't even show the back of the TV) and said that it was "untested" and then said that I could have that one too if I wanted, and I said how much and he said "shoot me an offer" and I did which I said "how about since its working condition isn't know why don't you just throw it in with the price of the other TV" and he said "Nah, I can't do that" and so then I offered him $25 again citing the fact that the TV is in unknown working order, and he said "that's too low" and that's when he said "$120 for both" and I said "can you do $80 for both?" and he said "nope $120 or its going to some lady who is going to turn them into fish tanks" and that's when I agreed to the price.

The part where he said he was "out of town until Monday" (and this was this past Wednesday) kind of scares me a bit, because when I tried asking him when where he wanted to meet up for me to get the TVs from him, that was when he said "I'm out of town until Monday".
Which I'm hoping that isn't a sign that he's nothing more than a scammer.

I say that because there has been for about 3 months now several listings on Facebook Marketplace from a local guy who supposedly has a storage unit full of 1930s-1950s vintage Console Radios for sale between $10-$150 depending on the make and model, and he said he had Stewart-Warner, Zenith, Stromberg-Carlson, Silvertone, Philco, Wards-Airline, Farnsworth, Capehart, etc.
So I messaged the guy asking him for specific model numbers of some of the radios, specifically the Stewart-Warner, Zenith, Stromberg-Carlson, Farnsworth and Capehart units, and he never messaged me back and that was over 2 weeks ago.

The weird part is that when I look at the conversation/message I sent to this guy, the listing says "the item has been removed by the seller" which makes me think that those listings are scams, and because of that, I'm hoping that isn't the case with these Zenith TVs.

Pass on those sets. The seller is a D-bag and a phony.
That POS 23" table model isn't worth much. The least thing, he could have done is clean the dirt off.
The 17" table model is hard to restore because of the design. It has to be disassembled completely.

[old_coot88]

In every shorted-yoke case I've seen (in 30+ years in the trade), the raster was shrunken both vertically and horizontally in addition to the taper.

In the photo of the Bug Eye however, the frame begins with a bright line at full horizontal sweep, then abruptly transitions to about 1/2 horz sweep during the remainder of the vertical scan.

Dunno what else could be "modulating" the H scan in such a manner. Maybe some vertical leakage getting into the grid of the horz output tube. My bet would still be on the yoke.

[vortalexfan]

Originally Posted by dieseljeep

Pass on those sets. The seller is a D-bag and a phony.
That POS 23" table model isn't worth much. The least thing, he could have done is clean the dirt off.
The 17" table model is hard to restore because of the design. It has to be disassembled completely.

Well I'm going to message the guy one more time and see if I can get a meeting place out of him, if not then I know it a scam. Interestingly enough I bought an EICO Model 232 VTVM for $10 from someone on Facebook Marketplace the other day and the unit was just as it was pictured and was actually legitimate, I aslo bought an 1850s vintage 1/2 Column clock for $80 and that one was also as it was pictured so, there are legitimate postings on there, but it appears that they are the exception and not the rule.

[vortalexfan]

Originally Posted by Phil Nelson

Those bugeye sets can perform well when restored. Here's an article about my T1816R:

https://antiqueradio.org/zen28.htm

Regards,

Phil Nelson
Phil's Old Radios
https://antiqueradio.org/index.html

Hi Phil, how common are the "All Channel" versions of these Bugeye Zeniths? I'm asking because the one you have (and other examples of this particular TV I've seen are VHF Only and the one I'm hopefully going to be picking up is a UHF/VHF "All-Channel" model.

[dieseljeep]

Originally Posted by vortalexfan

Hi Phil, how common are the "All Channel" versions of these Bugeye Zeniths? I'm asking because the one you have (and other examples of this particular TV I've seen are VHF Only and the one I'm hopefully going to be picking up is a UHF/VHF "All-Channel" model.

I had a Zenith from the same year! It looked the same as that one. It was made in the later part of 1955. It had the same ugly knobs as the one shown. The later production had the newer, better looking knobs.
Mine had UHF, as Milwaukee was a UHF market from early-one.
Most of the sets sold there were UHF equipped.

[vortalexfan]

Originally Posted by dieseljeep

I had a Zenith from the same year! It looked the same as that one. It was made in the later part of 1955. It had the same ugly knobs as the one shown. The later production had the newer, better looking knobs.
Mine had UHF, as Milwaukee was a UHF market from early-one.
Most of the sets sold there were UHF equipped.

Hi Dave, I sent the guy a message asking about a meeting place for the TVs, and he hasn't responded back yet, but if his story is to be believed, he might be driving right now and can't respond right now.

As for the 23" unit when they say its a "remoteless motorized tuning" does that mean it actually has an electronic tuner in it but just no remote control, or does that mean it could have a remote with it? Im kind of confused about that, and would of the remote of been one of those ultrasonic remotes (Space Command 400 remote), or would of it been a wired unit?

[dieseljeep]

It's just a motorized channel selector with a regular turret tuner.
Zenith also made some color sets with that feature.

[vortalexfan]

Originally Posted by dieseljeep

It's just a motorized channel selector with a regular turret tuner.
Zenith also made some color sets with that feature.

So basically if I'm understanding correctly there should be a channel up and down button on the set somewhere and you push one of those buttons and it will engage a drive motor that will cause the tuner to change the channel up or down? That's kind of cool, I've never worked on or owned a TV like that before, that would be neat.

[init4fun]

Originally Posted by vortalexfan

So basically if I'm understanding correctly there should be a channel up and down button on the set somewhere and you push one of those buttons and it will engage a drive motor that will cause the tuner to change the channel up or down? That's kind of cool, I've never worked on or owned a TV like that before, that would be neat.

If you lucky there will be channel up and down buttons, but if it's anything like the motorized remote control "Space Command" 1962 Zenith I've got, the tuner only runs one way, up. As in , each push of either the channel button on the remote or the channel button on the TV advances it one channel. If your on channel 7 and want to go to channel 5, you must toggle it around the dial through all the channels after 7 till you reach 5, with no down function to easily go from 7 to 6 , and then to 5

[vortalexfan]

Originally Posted by init4fun

If you lucky there will be channel up and down buttons, but if it's anything like the motorized remote control "Space Command" 1962 Zenith I've got, the tuner only runs one way, up. As in , each push of either the channel button on the remote or the channel button on the TV advances it one channel. If your on channel 7 and want to go to channel 5, you must toggle it around the dial through all the channels after 7 till you reach 5, with no down function to easily go from 7 to 6 , and then to 5

So how does the UHF band work on these TVs? I'm asking because the one I'm getting covers both VHF and UHF.