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  #61  
Old 11-21-2012, 06:39 AM
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timmy timmy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jhalphen View Post
Hi Timmy,

I pulled from the Web the spec sheet on the AN5760, the Vertical processor & output chip of the TR-1010P. It's clipped to this message.



Alas, there is a standard fault with a given model of TV. There are a fair amount of elecrolytic caps - i counted 7 in the Panasonic application note and as you said you had changed all the electrolytics, i would carefully go over each and check that one was not mounted with the + & - terminals reversed. In tight circuitry or when tired, even trained technicians sometimes make mistakes.

Of course a new Cap mais sometimes be bad but if yours are from a reputable brand, Panasonic, Nichicon,... this very seldom happens.

If you like repairing electronics, an ESR capacitor checker would be a valuable tool to have. ESR stands for Effective Series Resistance. The great advantage of this type of checker is that you can check electrolytic Caps in-circuit without desoldering them - a phenomenal time-saver when troubleshooting.

With an ESR meter you can check electrolytics from 1µF to the sky.
Under 1µ & non-electrolytic caps, the meter is useless.

to buy one, search a reputable test gear dealer such as this one:
http://www.tequipment.net/index.html

Other members may suggest a brand/model they like.

Best Regards

jhalphen
Paris/France
well that is one thing i did do and check the polarity, the neg of the caps is the half circle on the board so i ruled that out thank i didnt make a mistake. its just that what i did and checked seems not to be whats wrong and that im overlooking what it really is. but yes its really tight in there to work on. i did change both ics vert and horiz.
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  #62  
Old 11-23-2012, 05:24 AM
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Hi Timmy,

Don't get discouraged! i discussed with a fellow VK member & friend about your TR-1010 ailments and we both think that you probably have a cut trace on the printed circuit board.

Get the chassis under a really strong light, use a magnifying glass and very carefully inspect the PCB around the vertical processor IC.

When i do this, i use a paper printout of the board's trace layout + an Ohm meter with a "beep" function - it beeps if you put the 2 test leads in contact to indicate zero Ohms = perfect continuity.

I put one end of the test lead at the start of a PCB track and the other one at its end. If the trace is not cut, the meter beeps.

Good luck,

jhalphen
Paris/France
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  #63  
Old 11-23-2012, 12:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jhalphen View Post
Hi Timmy,

Don't get discouraged! i discussed with a fellow VK member & friend about your TR-1010 ailments and we both think that you probably have a cut trace on the printed circuit board.

Get the chassis under a really strong light, use a magnifying glass and very carefully inspect the PCB around the vertical processor IC.

When i do this, i use a paper printout of the board's trace layout + an Ohm meter with a "beep" function - it beeps if you put the 2 test leads in contact to indicate zero Ohms = perfect continuity.

I put one end of the test lead at the start of a PCB track and the other one at its end. If the trace is not cut, the meter beeps.

Good luck,

jhalphen
Paris/France
well that is amazing for you to say because i just started to do just that but have not found anything yet but i will keep on it . i have a fluke dvom with the diode beep that i have been using if the trace follows to the end from start it beeps. well ill have to look for a halogen light,lol really bright and im using a magnafying glass with the small double magnafier in it. ok, ill keep you posted when i find this headache, and thanks again for the verticle scan.
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  #64  
Old 11-23-2012, 02:45 PM
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Hi Timmy,

OK, you're going to win!

Be methodical: i use a yellow felt pen to overline on the paper printout the traces already checked.

Saves your memory from remembering "did i already do this one or not"
Especially if interrupted by a phone call/doorbell ring during the process.

Keep a soldering iron handy to reflow any non-perfect - possibly suspicious solder joints at the ends of each PCB trace.

If so, reflow, then check again with the beeper for A-OK continuity.

Hang in there!

Best Regards

jhalphen
Paris/France
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  #65  
Old 11-23-2012, 03:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jhalphen View Post
Hi Timmy,

OK, you're going to win!

Be methodical: i use a yellow felt pen to overline on the paper printout the traces already checked.

Saves your memory from remembering "did i already do this one or not"
Especially if interrupted by a phone call/doorbell ring during the process.

Keep a soldering iron handy to reflow any non-perfect - possibly suspicious solder joints at the ends of each PCB trace.

If so, reflow, then check again with the beeper for A-OK continuity.

Hang in there!

Best Regards

jhalphen
Paris/France
i did notice that 2 what i think are chip caps off the vert ic have like corrosion and to fix that is very hard because they are hard to hold and maybe this is where the problem is and i dont know if this corrosion could kill the connection but ill have to try and get them off and resolder. there are no caps that leaked near where these 2 @$#%%$%^4 tv,lol,lol... could it be possible that one of these chip caps are bad if its one responsible for the verticle timing. i dont know if smd components chips are known to go bad even if they have many years on them.

Last edited by timmy; 11-23-2012 at 03:57 PM.
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  #66  
Old 11-29-2012, 07:59 PM
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well i am trying but i am just about out of options i cannot find whats wrong with this set. and you see these little sets with the same problem and i just cant believe i cannot find any repair info on this horizontal line problem with these tvs on the web , not one thing comes up in regard to the tr101p. there must be someone out there that has mastered this nasty little problem. its strange when i got it it had no hv nothing on screen but found a bad rectifier for the focus voltage and replaced it and got full hv and focus voltage but was left with the line across the screen. checked the schematic and the loss of this voltage would not have affected any other part of the circuit. so its still a mystery.
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  #67  
Old 11-30-2012, 02:03 AM
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colorfixer colorfixer is offline
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Did any of the old caps have signs of leakage? I restored my JVC P100 and it was littered with bad caps, and a number of them leaked, taking traces with them. I've seen Panasonic capacitors leak, especially in audio gear such as their micro series components.

Take your time, go through each trace on the schematic and if you have a board layout as well, using a highlighter and you'll likely find the issue sooner than later.

Good luck
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  #68  
Old 11-30-2012, 05:55 AM
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Originally Posted by colorfixer View Post
Did any of the old caps have signs of leakage? I restored my JVC P100 and it was littered with bad caps, and a number of them leaked, taking traces with them. I've seen Panasonic capacitors leak, especially in audio gear such as their micro series components.

Take your time, go through each trace on the schematic and if you have a board layout as well, using a highlighter and you'll likely find the issue sooner than later.

Good luck
i went over the traces and it could very well be a flyback but really dont know for sure. as far as caps leaking, no it dont appear any leaked besides i changed all the caps on the deflection board.
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  #69  
Old 12-02-2012, 12:09 PM
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well it looks like this tv is for parts because i done everything possible to find whats wrong. i think the fly may be bad or a part of it inside because i checked every resistor both chip and threw hole and whats amazing to me is every resistor was right on even the chip resistors. the damper diode only has b+ voltage on it, 4.8 volts and that dont seem right. so for now is going on the side because im out of things to check.
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  #70  
Old 12-03-2012, 07:24 AM
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Hi Timmy,

Quote:
i think the fly may be bad or a part of it inside
No, the flyback is good: you have EHT and a bright trace across the screen, therefore it works.

Quote:
could it be possible that one of these chip caps are bad if its one responsible for the vertical timing. i dont know if SMD components chips are known to go bad even if they have many years on them.
SMD resistors and capacitors can go bad just like any other component.

Quote:
i did notice that 2 what i think are chip caps off the vert ic have like corrosion and to fix that is very hard because they are hard to hold and maybe this is where the problem is and i dont know if this corrosion could kill the connection but i'll have to try and get them off and resolder.
OK:
1) reflow solder pads on these corrosion-suspect SMDs
2) check trace continuity with Ohm Meter afterwards.

Show us some closeup photos of the suspected corrosion contacts.

If you choose to remove these SMD caps, do you have a capacitance meter?

Check the vertical winding on the deflection yoke. You have the service manual, locate the pins going to the V coils & check for continuity with an Ohm Meter.

On the vertical deflection IC: use your digital VOM to measure voltages on each of the IC's pins vs ground. Compare with the pin-per-pin voltages on the Panasonic service manual.

If really fed-up: send the TV to Andy in TX, he will fix it for you.

Best Regards

jhalphen
Paris/France
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  #71  
Old 12-03-2012, 08:51 AM
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OK:
1) reflow solder pads on these corrosion-suspect SMDs
2) check trace continuity with Ohm Meter afterwards.hi, ok heres where im at i did check the ohms on the yoke even though the schematic dont say what it should be it looks ok the ohms are lower then the other coil which i know they vary between vert and horiz coils. and the corroded look to one of the chip caps i did reflow and did check continuity everywhere. i actually checked every resistor and all check very good and i did remove a few key chip caps and subbed one at a time to see if anything changes on the screen, but nothing i do is making and progress. i notice using my dvom on diode check that one lead on ground and i touch the other to pin 4 on the vert ic the screen jumps like it wants to fill the screen. so it seems to me there is a problem in the sawtooth gen that creates the oscilliations to make the vert work but i dont know where else to go from here. it does seem like a timing cap of sorts that may be bad but i just dont know. it is very difficult to really take these chip caps off and sub another really unless i have the exact one to put back in, and leave in and call that cap changed being the right one. all voltages on both ics are where they should be with the exception of pin 6 on the vert ic which is 4.8 volts and should be 2 volts maybe because the vert is not under load, working... also what puzzles me is the line across the screen is not completly across, it starts on one side and stops about an 1/8 befor the other side. i dont know if using ceramic disc caps as subs would be the same as the chip caps that are in there, but i tried. but if it must be the chip type well then maybe ill have to try and get all these chip caps that are in question.

Check the vertical winding on the deflection yoke. You have the service manual, locate the pins going to the V coils & check for continuity with an Ohm Meter....

On the vertical deflection IC: use your digital VOM to measure voltages on each of the IC's pins vs ground. Compare with the pin-per-pin voltages on the Panasonic service manual.

If really fed-up: send the TV to Andy in TX, he will fix it for you.

Best Regards

jhalphen
Paris/France[/QUOTE]

Last edited by timmy; 12-03-2012 at 09:16 AM.
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  #72  
Old 12-03-2012, 05:50 PM
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crtfool crtfool is offline
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I would like to just give Timmy a lot of credit for putting all this time and energy in trying to get this TV working again - most of us would have given up with less than 1/4 the effort that he put in - I myself gave up after the ribbon cable tore. Even though these TV's look simple, they are actually very complex and they are very poorly built from a servicing and component quality level standpoint.

We have all had pieces of equipment that were so challenging that the basic "IT or ME" instinct kicks in and forces us to NOT want to let it beat us.

At this point, I suggest that you purchase another cheap TR-1010p with similar problems and apply all that you have learned to make a fresh start.

Good luck.

PS:

Andy is excellent, and I am sure that he could fix it, but these TVs are a dime a dozen, and the main purpose is for Timmy to have the satisfaction and pride of repairing it himself.

Last edited by crtfool; 12-03-2012 at 05:54 PM.
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  #73  
Old 12-03-2012, 06:20 PM
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Sandy G Sandy G is offline
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Yeah, unless its the 1969-70 version, or the 1984 Color version, these l'il guys ain't exactly rare...And if one or 2 "Give Their Lives" for the purpose of education, well, its not ALL lost then...Another thing, these ARE getting on towards 30 yrs old...I doubt if they were designed to last that long...Even the color version I don't think was sposed to live this long, if you go by the flimsiness of its cabinet... At least Sony made their KV-4000 series w/a metal cabinet, & they just SEEM a lot more robust...
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  #74  
Old 12-04-2012, 05:56 AM
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timmy timmy is offline
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Originally Posted by crtfool View Post
I would like to just give Timmy a lot of credit for putting all this time and energy in trying to get this TV working again - most of us would have given up with less than 1/4 the effort that he put in - I myself gave up after the ribbon cable tore. Even though these TV's look simple, they are actually very complex and they are very poorly built from a servicing and component quality level standpoint.

We have all had pieces of equipment that were so challenging that the basic "IT or ME" instinct kicks in and forces us to NOT want to let it beat us.

At this point, I suggest that you purchase another cheap TR-1010p with similar problems and apply all that you have learned to make a fresh start.

Good luck.

PS:

Andy is excellent, and I am sure that he could fix it, but these TVs are a dime a dozen, and the main purpose is for Timmy to have the satisfaction and pride of repairing it himself.
i did get another 1010 and may try a fresh start. i also have 2 1020 that had problems with the verticle and were both in the ribbon and they work great now after putting jumpers in the ribbon.
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  #75  
Old 12-04-2012, 06:48 AM
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I wanted one of those Panasonics for a long time but hearing about all the problems maybe I will pass. I do have the Sony Watchman sets and they seem to be holding up well. Even the ribon cables seem to be strong. I can definitely recommend the FD-20. It is a great performing nicely built set.
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