Design Life of Vintage TV sets

[compucat]

Looking over the restoration threads got me wondering just what was the intended service life of a typical 1940s or '50s TV set when they were being designed. These sets we have are 60 years old because previous owners never threw them out but by the time they get to us they have not seen power in at least 30 years or more. Manufacturers were always churning out new and better models and I have seen printed ads saying if you have a 10 inch set it is time to upgrade to a 12" or 17". Another ad said if your TV is more than two years old it is time to replace it. Does anyone know how long these sets were intended or expected to last when they left the factory?

[init4fun]

My Guess would be that they were designed to last just about till the warranty runs out . Gee , in that way , TV hasn't really changed all that much ...

[Tubejunke]

Originally Posted by init4fun

My Guess would be that they were designed to last just about till the warranty runs out . Gee , in that way , TV hasn't really changed all that much ...

I don't think that the planned obsolescence in engineering and B.S. merchandising schemes that are commonplace today were even thought of in the early days of television. Just as with automobiles and many other products of the "good old days" I think that there was pride in quality and with quality comes longevity. Now I don't think that anyone, not even Allen B. DuMont Laboratories ever meant for their sets to last 60 years!

I remember my dad (who sold TVs and appliances for Sears) always saying that the expected life of a TV was 10 years. That was back in the 70s..

[compucat]

I remember in the '70s most TV sets needed service after about the first three to five years. Often people would comment that once a set started costing money too frequently it was time to replace it.

[init4fun]

Originally Posted by Tubejunke

I don't think that the planned obsolescence in engineering and B.S. merchandising schemes that are commonplace today were even thought of in the early days of television. Just as with automobiles and many other products of the "good old days" I think that there was pride in quality and with quality comes longevity. Now I don't think that anyone, not even Allen B. DuMont Laboratories ever meant for their sets to last 60 years!

I remember my dad (who sold TVs and appliances for Sears) always saying that the expected life of a TV was 10 years. That was back in the 70s..

Hi Tubejunke ,

I used to think the same thing untill I did some reading about the early pioneers of radio . My idealized impression of guys like DeForest and Sarnoff was quickly shattered when I read of the cutthroat antics that went on "back in the day" (like how Sarnoff boned Armstrong so badly over the whole ugly FM mess that it is said to have resulted in Armstrong's suicide) . And lets not forget the great "tube count scandal" of the late 20s/Early 30s where some manufacturers , knowing the buying public equated tube count to the radio's performance , took to falsely inflating the "tube" count by using multiple , unneeded , "Ballast Tubes" (glorified lightbulbs that looked like tubes but were far cheaper to produce) . These "Tubes" were nothing more than resistors , but resistor count wasn't sellin radios , TUBE count was , So what if half of the "tubes" actually wern't active elements in the reception or amplification of the sound ? "Hell , It's got 12 tubes !!! It's GOTTA sound better than that 6 tube radio , right ?" . Lawsuits were brought , companies ruined , and it was just business as usual for the poor buyers who saw no refunds on the prices they had paid for these phony "High Performance" sets .

The electronic manufacturing business was already plenty dirty by the time Television came to be , and I'm sure planned obsolescence wasn't even considered tricky by the engineer's of those times . At their Boss' direction , they built to a pricepoint just as today , and years of electronic manufacture have given them experience with just how cheaply they can make em and still have them last the duration of the warranty .

We're just lucky the engineers took a few decades to learn just exactly HOW cheaply they can be built and still survive their predicted lifespan .

[wa2ise]

Originally Posted by init4fun

And lets not forget the great "tube count scandal" of the late 20s/Early 30s where some manufacturers , knowing the buying public equated tube count to the radio's performance , took to falsely inflating the "tube" count by using multiple , unneeded , "Ballast Tubes" (glorified lightbulbs that looked like tubes but were far cheaper to produce) . These "Tubes" were nothing more than resistors , but resistor count wasn't sellin radios , TUBE count was , So what if half of the "tubes" actually wern't active elements in the reception or amplification of the sound ? "Hell , It's got 12 tubes !!! It's GOTTA sound better than that 6 tube radio , right ?" . Lawsuits were brought , companies ruined , and it was just business as usual for the poor buyers who saw no refunds on the prices they had paid for these phony "High Performance" sets .

Same thing happened with transistor radios in the 60's. Radios bragged how many transistors they used. I have a "16 transistor " set that had pairs of transistors wired in parallel, base to base, emitter to emitter, and collector to collector. But only the transistor with a lower B-E voltage drop will do any work.

And about 15 years ago computers were sold on how many MHz the CPU operated at...

[init4fun]

Originally Posted by wa2ise

Same thing happened with transistor radios in the 60's. Radios bragged how many transistors they used. I have a "16 transistor " set that had pairs of transistors wired in parallel, base to base, emitter to emitter, and collector to collector. But only the transistor with a lower B-E voltage drop will do any work.

And about 15 years ago computers were sold on how many MHz the CPU operated at...

OOps , I had missed your response , but now that this thread grabbed my attention again , You sir are right on ! I also remember the Phony transistor counts and found it at first odd , and then downright sneaky when I saw radios with dummy transistors in em . My favorite was a transistor with one lead clipped off being used as a diode but counted among the "transistors" . Had they said "8 Semiconductors" when it had 6 transistors and 2 diodes that would have been fine . But to count the diodes in with the transistors calling it an 8 transistor radio kinda proved to me that they learned nothing from the tube count debacle of years prior .

I know it's human nature to want to look back fondly to "the good ol days" , I do it sometimes myself . I then get a bit of a chuckle thinking about the fact that even back then the people were , in fact , people just like today's people , with all the good and bad attributes that come along with being human .

[wa2ise]

Originally Posted by init4fun

My Guess would be that they were designed to last just about till the warranty runs out . ..

Back then it was 90 days. Nowadays it's at least a year.

[Sandy G]

The engineers who designed 'em might be AMAZED that they're being collected 60+ years later..

[Dude111]

Originally Posted by Sandy G

The engineers who designed 'em might be AMAZED that they're being collected 60+ years later..

Yes i reckon they would be quite happy also!

[DavGoodlin]

Consider how TV manufacturers of the 40s-50s seemed to be not trying to outdo each other on price so much, but making larger screen sizes, skinny backs, portability and talking up performance. Muntz and some others not withstanding.

It was only when there was a race to bring new features to market (color - think bad flybacks or 23EGP22 rectangular CRTs here) or cutting costs such as printed circuit boards, you had the epic warranty fails, etc.

[Geist]

Hi All;
I would have to slightly dis-agree.. "We're just lucky the engineers took a few decades to learn just exactly HOW cheaply they can be built and still survive their predicted lifespan ."
When you look at the first set by RCA, is was and has been stated in this forum an overly engineered set and well built to last.. I think they were afraid of it not being accepted because of breakdowns, too many service calls and not good enough reception.. And it was only after the wide reception that they had in the early days and using tubes that were multipart (two tubes in one) that they were able to reduce the tube count and come up with better circuits.. If you look at the early 50's there were alot of new/better circuits.. If you compare the Set of 1938-1940 with the 1946-1948, you can see a large difference in the circuits that they used.. They had, had the time to work out and improve what they had.. Yes, World War 2 was a Great proving ground, But, even still it was about a year after the War that the first TV's came out for public use..
I would say that the above statement was more true in about the late 50's and from then on.. But, not in the early days of TV..
I think the same thing can be said of the Automobile industry in the late 1930's to the 1950, cars were built like Tanks, and it was starting in the 1960 that they cut corners and built them very cheap.. I had a 1948 Pachard Hearst and it was built like a tank, I bent a Very Heavy duty Jack trying to lift it to fix a flat tire.. It never got lifted off the ground.. Later I had inheirited a late 1960's Corvair.. and it was made of thin sheet metal and other cuts..
THANK YOU Marty

[decojoe67]

I had heard from others that although the early sets were well built, the old wax caps were a weak point. By the the time these sets began to fail and needed more than just a tube replaced, the owners were enticed by the new bigger screen sets! Down in the basement or up in the attic it went until us collectors unearthed them! Now with modern components and less rigorous use these old work-horses have a lot of years to offer!

[compucat]

Originally Posted by decojoe67

I had heard from others that although the early sets were well built, the old wax caps were a weak point. By the the time these sets began to fail and needed more than just a tube replaced, the owners were enticed by the new bigger screen sets! Down in the basement or up in the attic it went until us collectors unearthed them! Now with modern components and less rigorous use these old work-horses have a lot of years to offer!

There may be something to that because after I get all the paper caps replaced in a set it is usually very reliable. My RCA 8" personal portable tv has had only one repair in ten years since being recapped and used regularly.

[decojoe67]

Originally Posted by compucat

There may be something to that because after I get all the paper caps replaced in a set it is usually very reliable. My RCA 8" personal portable tv has had only one repair in ten years since being recapped and used regularly.

I too have an RCA "personal portable" that was previously elec. restored many years ago and still works to perfection. That sets is a particularly good example of a well made TV.
I have many other vintage radios and TV's that even after 20+ years of a complete recap, are still playing fine. They are not used daily, but at least a few hours a month. For 70-80+ year old electronics, that's saying something!