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  #1  
Old 05-13-2011, 07:16 AM
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Hu- You know there's some funny stuff in yer graphs...... In the "15gp22-21axp22.pdf" that includes "RX43" in the on screen title. The 15gp22 actually has a narrower color spectrum than the 21axp22, and much narrower than p22 phosporous. Smaller triangles on the graph do actually indicate narrower color spectrum. And on the measured graphs both the 15gp, and the 21axp seem to have a very similar shape, except for the brightness level. (You notice in the old RCA p22 graphs also put up on this thread RCA correctly uses the term "relative" in its brightness scale, the vertical left scale. Relative in this case is kind or normalizing with refrence to brightness.) For actual more acurate comparison you are going to have to measure both, or all tubes you compare at very similar brightness levels. (or beam currents, Something I took exception to when this discussion took place many years ago on Pete's private site.) You will get very hard to distinguish readings using those scales with such wide differences in light levels. Think about reading 2V acurately on an analog meter when you chose to use the 400V full scale deflection setting. And you also have to first establish that your instrument has a flat response across the full spectrum. And in addition, that the instrument is accurate across all light intensity levels. And as for the overall screen face color, it may just be the difference in the material between the phosphorous pigment, or in the material used to hold the phosphorous in suspension when deposited on the screen. Anyway just a squirrels thought on the presented data.
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Old 05-13-2011, 10:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Username1 View Post
Hu- You know there's some funny stuff in yer graphs...... In the "15gp22-21axp22.pdf" that includes "RX43" in the on screen title. The 15gp22 actually has a narrower color spectrum than the 21axp22, and much narrower than p22 phosporous. Smaller triangles on the graph do actually indicate narrower color spectrum. And on the measured graphs both the 15gp, and the 21axp seem to have a very similar shape, except for the brightness level. (You notice in the old RCA p22 graphs also put up on this thread RCA correctly uses the term "relative" in its brightness scale, the vertical left scale. Relative in this case is kind or normalizing with refrence to brightness.) For actual more acurate comparison you are going to have to measure both, or all tubes you compare at very similar brightness levels. (or beam currents, Something I took exception to when this discussion took place many years ago on Pete's private site.) You will get very hard to distinguish readings using those scales with such wide differences in light levels. Think about reading 2V acurately on an analog meter when you chose to use the 400V full scale deflection setting. And you also have to first establish that your instrument has a flat response across the full spectrum. And in addition, that the instrument is accurate across all light intensity levels. And as for the overall screen face color, it may just be the difference in the material between the phosphorous pigment, or in the material used to hold the phosphorous in suspension when deposited on the screen. Anyway just a squirrels thought on the presented data.
P22 refers to any RGB color tube. The points shown are some particular set of phosphors, which appears to have the later non-NTSC blue. Cliff maybe can tell us the source of the numbers, which may be ideal phosphor numbers or measurements with a colorimeter rather than a spectroradiometer.
The reduced purity in the 15GP22 tube is to be expected. Later techniques for reducing electron scatter, etc. had not been invented yet. Specifically, the green is very close to where it should be, the blue is close to NTSC blue, which is not as violet as later blue phosphors. The only real degradation is in the red, indicating the red purity was not ideal. Also, maybe Cliff can comment on whether these numbers came from a spectroradiometer, or a colorimeter. If a colorimeter, errors are also to be expected.

I talked with the president of Spectracal at the Hollywood Post Alliance in February, and he said that the I-1 spectroradiometer is much more accurate than colorimeters, and is reasonably comparable to much more expensive spectroradiometers. Of course, this non-lab model, costing about 1/10 of the top ones, is only calibrated once, at the factory, whereas a lab instrument would be calibrated yearly or more often to a NIST-traceable standard. The important thing is that it can correctly handle the red primary spectrum that trails off into the infrared. Back when we first measured Cliff's field-sequential color wheels on a CRT with the Spyder II colorimeter, we got wildly wrong results due to the deviation of the deep red response from the standard observer curves. The Spyder III improved that considerably, but only the I-1 gives results that are really close to eyeball color.
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Old 05-18-2011, 11:31 AM
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21FBP22A red Accuracy

On the good color bars displayed on my reactivated 21CT55, yellow is best ever while the red is much truer red then the '97 27in Sony which is distinctly orange/red! My two 21FBP22's have differently unenergized phosphor screens. The one in the 21CT55 has a light gray tone while my spare has a greenish tone. My Sony pro monitor has SMPTE-C spec'ed phosphors. Its red is more accurate, not as pure red as the 21CT55, but close. I read somewhere the modern SMPTE phosphors are more orange/red since they produce better "flesh tones" with less accurate chroma demodulators. So anyway, I designate the gray screen CRT as a "rare-earth" 21FBP22A and the green screen CRT as a sulfide 21FBP22. It would be very interesting to see real-time side by side displays of the color bars produced by the NTSC 15GP22 / 21AXP22 and the gray and green screen 21FBP22's.
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Old 05-18-2011, 06:29 PM
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[QUOTE=Tomcomm;3003530]...I read somewhere the modern SMPTE phosphors are more orange/red since they produce better "flesh tones" with less accurate chroma demodulators...QUOTE]

I was on the SMPTE monitor committee, and I can tell you that the colors were standardized based on what was available in the tubes made with controlled phosphor batches and supplied in Conrac monitors. In "SMPTE C primaries," the "C" stands for Conrac. The relatively slight variations in red phosphors over the years has little effect on flesh tones compared to the changes in green and blue, especially green.
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Old 05-18-2011, 06:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by old_tv_nut View Post
In "SMPTE C primaries," the "C" stands for Conrac.
I didn't know that.
Sitting on that committee must have been a very interesting time. #;^)
Cliff
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