Music Censorship

[GeorgeJetson]

Originally Posted by NowhereMan 1966

Maybe there is hope. I like to go on Youtube and watch videos of the old songs from the 1970's and 1980's that I grew up with. I never saw so many people who are like 12, 14, 16, today's "yung uns" who don't like the media and music today and wish they were around during the time I grew up and I was born in 1966. That tells you something that a lot of things are not too kosher today but take it another way, maybe there is hope after all.

You're right "nowhereman_1966" all you can do is hope.
There are a lot of younger independant thinkers who have taken off their blinders and see how debased society has become and chosen to embrace the past.
And you're exactly right about your Star Trek analogy.

[GeorgeJetson]

Originally Posted by Sam Cogley

The murder rate is half of what it was in 1980. Crime across the board has been falling for years. http://www.balloon-juice.com/2010/12...p-up-up-up-up/

Censorship of any sort, be it voluntary or involuntary, is often used for nefarious purposes. IMHO, free expression is the greatest method we have to promote and protect a free society. What's the first thing any tyrant does? Censor the various forms of media to make sure that only approved messages get out to the people.

In short, I don't buy any notion that over all things are worse today, when in fact many aspects of life are demonstrably better than they used to be.

One other thing - don't believe what certain media outlets that are pushing a very specific political/social agenda tell you about certain groups. A bit of research might prove reality to be a far cry from what their spinmeisters sell during their prime-time shoutfests.



I'm sorry, but that's BS.

Sorry Sam,
But I respectfully disagree with your last statement,the problems of today eclipse those of the past.
My statement isn't "bs" compare the music,tv shows,movies and values then to todays.

Things were on a much higher level back in the late '50's.

We didn't have kids taking guns to school and shooting up the place back in the '50's,or gang bangers doing drive bys and killing innocent people,people were more polite and displayed much more courtesy in public back then.

we didn't have profanity laced violent music blasting from cars disseminating criminal values to kids,and nobody walked around with thier underwear showing and wear clothing adorned with dark violent imagery.

we didn't have 15 year old girls gang raped on school grounds while 20 people stood by and watched...there is a huge difference in society today that's very obvious to anyone with eyes and a sense of decency...and it all goes back to a constant lowering of standards.

You needn't look far to see it,just turn on tv or get in your car.

Today the media caters to the lowest common denominator.
Kids today are desensitized and warped by all the violent and sexual imagery they see on tv in movies,video games and on the Internet.
Satellite tv and the Internet didn't exist in the '50's and 60's so kids were only exposed to what was on brodcast tv or what their parents allowed them to see in the movies.

In many movies and tv shows today the line between good and bad is often distorted and people idolize the bad guy because he does whatever he wants and takes whatever he wants and lives outside the law.

As far as censorship goes,it will always be around and is necessary to a certain degree in order to maintain a decent society,that's why this site has a censor in the form of a moderator otherwise things would devolve into a free for all and people would post objectionable material.

It is also necessary to protect children from things they shouldn't see or hear,until there are mature enough to deal with those issues and situations responsibly.
This is why people can't walk around naked in public and porno magazines have brown paper wrappers.

Freedom doesn't mean "anything goes,do whatever you want"
what about other peoples freedoms?
what about the people who argue that right and wrong are man made concepts that shouldnt apply to them? Should those people be allowed to rape,steal and kill?
Freedom isn't free there must be checks and balances to ensure the greater good.

I agree that censorship is and has been misued for certain agendas in the past and well as now,and I am not in favor of bookburnings or blacklists,but let's not pretend that this isn't going on now.
History and news are spun to fit todays current politcal agenda,and certain classic books like are either censored or banned from school librarys.

I do find it funny though,that in these supposedly more open times we censor 30+ year old tv shows like Sanford & Son and All in the Family,as well as vintage Tom & Jerry and Bugs Bunny cartoons,yet Chris Rock can spout racial ephitats non stop for 30 minutes and nobody has a problem with that.
If we are so much more "open" and enlightened now why can't we accept artifacts from the past,movies,tv,books,etc. Intact and unedited?

Why are networks still afraid to run "Amos 'n Andy" the first show with an all black cast? Should we censor the past to fit todays political agenda?
Arguing that that show makes black people look bad is the same as saying the three stooges makes white people look like morons.

Again,no society is perfect and I never said the '50's and 60's were,but the good was far greater than the bad.

I respect your opinions and beliefs,you are entitled to them as I am entitled to mine,just don't spin my words to mean something I didn't.

I agree certain things today are more advanced like science and medicine and electronics,but society and values in general have regressed severely. as have the designs and quality of our products


By the way,what was the murder rate in 1957 compared to now?

[Sam Cogley]

Originally Posted by GeorgeJetson

It is also necessary to protect children from things they shouldn't see or hear,until there are mature enough to deal with those issues and situations responsibly.
This is why people can't walk around naked in public and porno magazines have brown paper wrappers.

Europe has much more sexual content in movies and TV shows (including nudity on broadcast TV) and far less violent content than the US, yet they have far lower crime rates.

Freedom doesn't mean "anything goes,do whatever you want"
what about the people who argue that right and wrong and man made concepts that shouldnt apply to them? Should those people be allowed to rape,steal and kill?
Freedom isn't free there must be checks and balances to ensure the greater good.

IMHO, freedom is an absolute until it infringes on someone else's rights. Obviously no one has the right to steal from or injure anyone else.

I agree that censorship is and has been misued for certain agendas in the past and well as now,and I am not in favor of bookburnings or blacklists,but let's not pretend that there isn't censorship going on now.
History and news are spun to fit todays current politcal agenda,and certain classic books like are either censored or banned from school librarys.

And there are strong movements to expose, prevent and overturn such actions.

I do find it funny though,that in these supposedly more open times we censor 30+ year old tv shows like Sanford & Son and All in the Family,as well as vintage Tom & Jerry and Bugs Bunny cartoons,yet Chris Rock can spout racial ephitats non stop for 30 minutes and nobody has a problem with that.

I don't think Chris Rock is going to be doing that on broadcast TV at 4pm. More likely on HBO at 9pm.

Why are networks still afraid to run "Amos 'n Andy" the first show with an all black cast? Should we censor the past to fit todays political agenda?
Arguing that that show makes black people look bad is the same as saying the three stooges makes white people look stupid.

One is full of racial stereotypes, the other isn't. It's an economic decision, anyway. The only people stopping such shows from being aired today are those making the financial decisions. If the advertisers don't want something on the air, it's not going to be there.

By the way,what was the murder rate in 1957 compared to now?

According to the FBI, it was 4.0 per 100,000. In 2007 it was 5.9. In 1967 it was 6.2, and didn't fall back below 6 until 1999. The peak was 10.2 in 1980.
http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0873729.html

1957 was the low point in modern times. The rate was approximately 2.0/100,000 in 1900, climbed steadily up through the 1930s, then nose-dived again post-Prohibition and during the busy and prosperous post-war years. There is one very simple item that corresponds rather neatly with the murder rate - the bans against certain chemicals (including alcohol) and the subsequent rise of the criminal underworld to run the black market economy. Prohibition didn't work, and still doesn't. Pgs. 38-39 have the complete 1900-1998 chart. 1933 was very close to 1980.
http://www.jrsa.org/programs/Historical.pdf

[Dude111]

Originally Posted by Eric H

Remember folks, no Politics and keep it civil.
Not sure if that's possible given the topic.

Do you think i should repost my thread on politicalchat.org Eric? (Then we dont have to worry how political it gets)

[GeorgeJetson]

Originally Posted by Dude111

Do you think i should repost my thread on politicalchat.org Eric? (Then we dont have to worry how political it gets)

Lol!,guess Erics right about censorship being a "loaded" issue.

Censorship is in and of itself a political issue.

So far everythings been civil.
Sams a good guy and Ive been talking to him in pm's and I agree with a lot of what he says.

[GeorgeJetson]

Sam,thanks for the history link.
Interesting stuff!

[Sam Cogley]

Originally Posted by GeorgeJetson

Sam,thanks for the history link.
Interesting stuff!

No prob! I corrected my comments on the timeline slightly to reflect the 1933 murder peak.

Of course, if we want to get really historical, the murder rate in Western Europe during the medieval period was around 35/100,000 and dropped steadily up to modern times.

Also of note is the fact that the Japanese consume a whole lot of violent entertainment but have a crime rate much lower than the US. While there does seem to be some correlation between violence in entertainment and violence in real life, it's far from an absolute.

I still contend that a lot of the perception of crime today is due to the vast 24-hour news apparatus we have now compared to 50s and 60s when you might have a 30 minutes to an hour of local and world news in the morning and afternoon, and a newspaper with breakfast and dinner. That's a vast increase of bandwidth that needs to be filled. A lot of it is repetitive, but the people producing the news still have a lot more space to work with.

[AUdubon5425]

Around here, the economy and crime problem in 1980, while experiencing difficulties compared to ten and twenty years earlier, was still far better than 1990-present.

The last few years it's gotten to drive-by shootings and executions in broad daylight. Rolling gun battles are not all that surprising anymore. It's the crack/drug/rap/thug way of life. Never have I seen so many people, mainly 30 and under, with no regard for their own life or anyone else's. No morals, no values, no work ethic. Just sell the crack/heroin and put the 25" wheels on the Monte Carlo, go father a dozen kids who won't know you then get shot down on some corner at 25-years-old. There'll be plenty of memorial t-shirts and beer can shaped flower arrangements at your burial.

I really don't think boobies on TV would have hastened in the crime situation in the big cities today. I do think the ever-present gore on prime-time detective programs numbs people in general to violence.

[radiotvnut]

Back when we got our first VCR, my sister was the movie rental queen and, often, she'd let us watch some of her movies before they had to be returned. One time, she sent a movie over (I don't recall the title) and me and my parents sat down to watch it. Within 5 minutes, someone said "GD" and my father turned it off and gave my sister an earful for sending such a movie over. When I was growing up, my parents were the "V-chip". If there was something they didn't want me to watch, I didn't watch it and it was not open for discussion.

Now, many parents couldn't care less what their children see or hear.

Yes, I watched all those "politically incorrect" cartoons; but, I had parents who actually taught me right from wrong and I knew the difference between the real world and what was on TV. Personally, I still see nothing wrong with those cartoons. There are far worse programs on TV that I would not want my kids to see.

IMHO, things started going down the toilet when everyone developed an "anything goes" attitude and when parents stopped parenting.

[JoeNewberry]

For what it's worth, Leave It to Beaver had the first toilet tank on television way back in 1957. Wally and the Beaver keep their pet alligator there to avoid detection by Ward and June. The bowl portion isn't shown and the toilet itself is referred to as an aquarium. Of course, it was all downhill for America after that transgression against common decency.

[GeorgeJetson]

Originally Posted by radiotvnut

Back when we got our first VCR, my sister was the movie rental queen and, often, she'd let us watch some of her movies before they had to be returned. One time, she sent a movie over (I don't recall the title) and me and my parents sat down to watch it. Within 5 minutes, someone said "GD" and my father turned it off and gave my sister an earful for sending such a movie over. When I was growing up, my parents were the "V-chip". If there was something they didn't want me to watch, I didn't watch it and it was not open for discussion.

Now, many parents couldn't care less what their children see or hear.

Yes, I watched all those "politically incorrect" cartoons; but, I had parents who actually taught me right from wrong and I knew the difference between the real world and what was on TV. Personally, I still see nothing wrong with those cartoons. There are far worse programs on TV that I would not want my kids to see.

IMHO, things started going down the toilet when everyone developed an "anything goes" attitude and when parents stopped parenting.

Well put "radiotvnut",I agree with you 100 per cent.
Dads used to be a force to be reckoned with,now they suffer from "peter pan" syndrome,nobody wants to grow up and be responsible.

[GeorgeJetson]

Originally Posted by JoeNewberry

For what it's worth, Leave It to Beaver had the first toilet tank on television way back in 1957. Wally and the Beaver keep their pet alligator there to avoid detection by Ward and June. The bowl portion isn't shown and the toilet itself is referred to as an aquarium. Of course, it was all downhill for America after that transgression against common decency.

Yeah,I just thought about that last night watching the episode "Captain Jack"

I wonder if you can still send away for one of those Alligators today?

[radiotvnut]

Originally Posted by GeorgeJetson

Well put "radiotvnut",I agree with you 100 per cent.
Dads used to be a force to be reckoned with,now they suffer from "peter pan" syndrome,nobody wants to grow up and be responsible.

These "peter pan" parents are the type who's kids pitch a fit in public and, at best, their mommy or daddy tells them, "Now, stop that or you're going in time out (for 3 minutes)". My parents would have warmed my rear end right there on the spot and it would not have mattered who did or did not like it.

These "peter pan" parents are the reason there is virtually no punishment in schools because they threaten legal action against the school system if they touch their innocent little darlings. And, any trouble their kids get in to is not their fault. It's always due to an "unfair" teacher or someone else. When I was in school, my Mother told them to warm my rear end if I got into trouble and to let them know because I'd get it again when I got home. I knew they meant business and I did everything I could to behave in school.

These "peter pan" parents are the type who allow their kids to "negotiate" with them. There wasn't any "negotiation" with my parents. When they said do something, I did it and I knew better than to ask "why".

These "peter pan" parents give their kids everything they want on a silver platter because "they don't want their kids to grow up doing without certain things like they had to do".

Then, these "peter pan" parents wonder, when their kids become adults, why they are into drugs, are in jail, and/or can't take care of themselves without having to depend on mommy and daddy for money every month.

[holmesuser01]

I run a movie theatre. LOTS of parents think they can come in and buy tickets for R rated films for their underaged kids and just leave the theatre. We dont knowingly let that happen, ever. Sometimes, though, I've seen the parents buy tickets, take the kids into the theatres, then leave through the exits.

I also get reamed out sometimes, because I wont let their little darlings see the movies with all the boobs, drug use, and blatant sex sex sex!

I say, if you want your kids to become adults overnight, wait for the movie to hit the DVD sales. Dont expect me to deal with your kids "tinkling" in the seat after they see things on the screen!


(In case you are wondering, we REPLACE the seats that we find wet or smelly!)

[GeorgeJetson]

"holmesuser01"

I can only imagine how bad it must be for someone working in a porno theatre then,they must change the seats on an hourly basis an use a flame thrower to disinfect the floors.

I wonder if those kids parents also buy them booze and cigarettes too?

There were some "cool" parents in their late 30's bragging one time in a resaraunt that they let their 16 year old son drink jack daniels and bring his girlfriends over to spend the night because "at least it was being done in a safe environment"..these same "parents" probably leave their kids to be babysat in your theatre.

It's sad but you're right,kids don't really get a chance to be kids anymore.