1969 Memorex 1" videotapes with NASA Apollo (?) material

[Dutchsteam]

Found these three video tapes at an online auction in the USA. They have since been sent to me in Europe and should arrive by next month.

1" tape on a 10" spool.







If we have to go by the case identifier (79P-ON-7084B-W3), they are exactly:

Memorex Type 79 Series designed for helical-scan broadcast and closed circuit television recorders.

Ampex VR-6000 and VR-7000 Series Recorders

62 minutes 9-4/2" Precision Reel 1" x 3000' in Box 1"


So probably recorded with an NTSC Ampex Type A machine.


The seller did not have a way to play back the tapes, so nothing is known about their content or which format/machine they were recorded with. Neither do I know the condition of the tapes, if they need special treatment before they can be played back and digitized.

It is a gamble and I am prepared to be disappointed, there could be something different on them entirely!


If the labels are correct however, the tapes likely contain USA television broadcasts of the missions during the written events. Of the NBC, CBS or ABC.

So while unlikely to be lost NASA footage, still very cool possibly live recordings off of TV.


When the tapes arrive I want to try the following things:


1. Assess their condition. Is it possible to notice SSS and other degenerations without playing back the tape?

2. View the tape with a magnetic viewing solution to make the tracks visible, to determine if there is anything on them at all, and if so, the format.


The biggest problem would be to find an NTSC machine in europe/UK, preferable in the Netherlands.

Is it possible to play back an NTSC tape on a PAL machine just for the audio? So I can asses if the contents are what are stated on the labels.


If all works out I hope I can get them digitized at a professional company.

[old_tv_nut]

Good luck on your project!

[NowhereMan 1966]

I'd give my last $10 to see what's on those tapes.

[Electronic M]

Fascinating.

I'm pretty sure those type A machines weren't broadcast grade so it rules out TV stations as the record VTR owner. Back then to have a 1" VTR you had to be Hugh Hefner level rich, or be a large institution or business.
IIRC NASA had their own VTRs I wonder if they had any type A decks...

[ppppenguin]

Recovering A format tapes is tricky. The basic video track geometry is identical to C format but there are all sorts of other differences. Many years ago I got pictures from an A format PAL tape (recorded on a VR7003) by playing it on a C format machine. All sorts of things were wrong but I believe then and still believe now that it would be possible to modify a C format machine to do the job well.

AFAIK there are no working or readily restorable A format machines in UK/Europe. There are a number of working C format machines in private hands. There may be a very few working A format machines in the USA. The NTSC versions of A format will not play PAL tapes and vice versa. C format machines may be dual standard but I'm not certain.

From my own recollections, the Memorex A format tape was very abrasive compared to other makes. I tried to avoid using it.

Conclcusion: You will be very lucky indeed to recover matarial from these tapes.

PS: There's the possibility that these tapes don't contain video at all. I thinkk that A format machines were sometimes used by NASA and others to record data. At the time, VTRs were about the widest bandwidth recording devices in existence. They did this by dressing it up as video. Digital audio was recorded like this on Umatic and Betamax (PCM-F1) machines at one time.

PPS: There's a possibility that these are IVC 700/800 series tapes. ISTR the spools are slightly smaller diameter than A format. I don't have experience of these machines but there maybe working examples.

[jhalphen]

Hi to all, Hi Jeffrey,
hi DutchSteam,

Worth a try :
Company Vectracom in Paris, France has been operating since 2001 to transfer archives on vintage VTR/VCR formats to newer media.
The company was founded by 3 ex-SFP engineers, the SFP was the production branch of the three state-owned French television channels (ORTF era).

They have an extensive array of vintage format machines: 2" Quadruplex, 1" type B and type C, U-Matic, BVU...

Try contacting them through their contact page & inquire if they have Ampex type A machines & IVC 700/900 series.
The Ampex VPR-1 (type A) was quite popular in France circa 1978 and French regional TV France-3 had many Ampex VPR-7900 Series 1" type A VTRs. IVC 1" machines were also popular as master players to VHS duplication banks at the beginning of the home video craze.

http://www.vectracom.fr/en/

see an RCA 2" Quad in this article about Vectracom :
https://mediakwest.com/mk35_vectraco...du-patrimoine/

Having Quad machines, Vectracom probably has the magnetic fluid viewer to see edit points on 2" tape.
They could probably identify your recording format via tape revelation.

As PPP-Penguin mentioned, 525/60 type A VTRs are probably non-existent on this side of the Atlantic.

Good Luck &
Best Regards
jhalphen/Ex-Ampex

[ppppenguin]

Hi Jerome. In theory a VPR1 can play A format tapes though the demodulator would need tweaking to work with the lower deviation used on VR7000 etc. However most VPR1 were modified to become C format machines.

[Dutchsteam]

Originally Posted by ppppenguin

Recovering A format tapes is tricky. The basic video track geometry is identical to C format but there are all sorts of other differences. Many years ago I got pictures from an A format PAL tape (recorded on a VR7003) by playing it on a C format machine. All sorts of things were wrong but I believe then and still believe now that it would be possible to modify a C format machine to do the job well.

AFAIK there are no working or readily restorable A format machines in UK/Europe. There are a number of working C format machines in private hands. There may be a very few working A format machines in the USA. The NTSC versions of A format will not play PAL tapes and vice versa. C format machines may be dual standard but I'm not certain.

From my own recollections, the Memorex A format tape was very abrasive compared to other makes. I tried to avoid using it.

Conclcusion: You will be very lucky indeed to recover matarial from these tapes.

PS: There's the possibility that these tapes don't contain video at all. I thinkk that A format machines were sometimes used by NASA and others to record data. At the time, VTRs were about the widest bandwidth recording devices in existence. They did this by dressing it up as video. Digital audio was recorded like this on Umatic and Betamax (PCM-F1) machines at one time.

PPS: There's a possibility that these are IVC 700/800 series tapes. ISTR the spools are slightly smaller diameter than A format. I don't have experience of these machines but there maybe working examples.

Thanks for your thorough reply Penguin.

I will be able to share much more when the tapes arrive. I got my own magnetic viewing solution, so will be able to share photos of the tracks.

How long would one video frame be on a length of tape? I assume it would be preferred to view one entire frame. I can always do a piece in sections and stitch the photos in post.

Would it be possible to determine PAL or NTSC from the visualization of the tracks? What resolution would be required? I assume from the amount of helical scan lines between two edit/frame points?


When you played a type A tape in a type C machine, did you get any audio?

Even if I can't find a type A machine locally, it may be a good idea to try playback on a newer machine as long as I can get audio. Then I can determine by that if it is NASA/Apollo related or something else... like I Love Lucy!


Baking would probably be required to have any hopes of clean playback...


Regards,

[ppppenguin]

Each track is one frame. The length of the track is set by the diamter of the drum. The A format drum was larger than the IVC 700 drum though I'd have to search for the dimensions. From memory it's c130mm diameter for A and C format, perhaps c115mm for IVC. The video tracks are therefore very long, around 400mmm for A or C. This was a strength and a weakness. Good because one frame per track allowed C format to do all sorts of slowmo/stopmo effects. Bad because it makes mechanical alignment very critical and a portable machine more difficult. The Bosch B format with segmented scan had a much smaller drum but needed framestores to achieve slowmo etc. These were very new and expensive at the time. Very few broadcasters used B format.

I don't think it would be possible to distinguish 625 from 525 using a magnetic viewer. In theory you can count the line pulse but I think you'd struggle to see them.

The audio tracks are in a different position on A and C format, as is the control track. I think simply rewiring the audio and control heads would give some kind of result but I never tried it.

[Dutchsteam]

The tapes arrived today. Their condition appears fine and clean, and I was able to verify a signal with my DIY MVS!!



Photos to go with this post can be found here: https://drive.google.com/drive/folde...jz?usp=sharing





From my vantage point, the cases, reels and tapes. appear in good condition. The tape is evenly wound, there is no spoking or holes in the winding.

The tape unspools easily by gravity and doesn't seem to stick to the underside of the reels. Nor do I get any shedding or stickiness on my cotton gloves when handling the tape.

There are a few hairline scratches along the shiny side of the tape but I assume this is to be expected? Obviously I don't know how many times these were played/recorded on. The dull side is clean. Tape lays down flat and doesn't want to curl. Edges of the tape appear straight.


I viewed one reel with a DIY magnetic viewing solution. Methanol and fine carbonyl iron powder. Tape C59078-A1-3C, Apollo XI Moon Walk GMT.

Unlike the two other reels, this tape does not have a rubber restrainer that keeps the tape from unspooling inside the case. The first meter or so of this tape is slightly curly and the edges are uneven. After that it becomes good.


It took a few tries and some waiting, but... we got a magnetic signal on the tape!! Certainly audio on one edge, helical scan tracks in the middle and control pulses on the other edge.





See Google Drive photos above for full resolution photos.


I would view more sections and the other two tapes like this... but shortly after this the (briefly submerged in the methanol solution) piece of tape started to curl heavily inward. I dried and cleaned it off carefully and spooled the tape back. Hopefully this section will straighten out...


One other thing of note is that the reels got IDs (E.I C59078-A1-3C) on the underside that match with the labled cases. So they must have matches the labels at one point in time... The cases do not appear to ever had any other labels stuck on them.


Experts, does this look like Ampex Type A?
Is it possible to judge the condition from my photos and description? Any hints of SSS or shedding?

Kind regards,
Niels

[ppppenguin]

It's many years since I've handled A format but those spools seem a little too small, so possibly IVC 700/800 etc. Can you give us the actual diameter of the spools please. Though I don't have an immediate reference for the sizes used.

[Dutchsteam]

Originally Posted by ppppenguin

It's many years since I've handled A format but those spools seem a little too small, so possibly IVC 700/800 etc. Can you give us the actual diameter of the spools please. Though I don't have an immediate reference for the sizes used.

They are a tiny bit smaller than my 1/4" 10" audio reel.

Some measurements:
Memorex Reel:

Width: 32,6mm

Diameter hub: 76mm

Diameter Outside: 247,5mm

Tape:

Width: 25,25mm

[Dude111]

Hey good luck buddy!!!!!

[Dutchsteam]

Found at least one company in the Netherlands that has Ampex Type A PAL and NTSC machines.

Hopefully I can give the tapes a spin at their place to verify contents and quality. Digitization is going to be very expensive unfortunately but I am sure I can find a way...

[Dutchsteam]

Tomorrow is the big day! time to find out what's on them once and for all.

Very exciting.