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  #31  
Old 10-21-2009, 09:56 PM
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"I replaced all of the caps.
Except the electrolytics that are hooked up screwy to the diodes.
I can now get two local stations (only) with a weak crackly signal.
But that is a milestone..as I got nothing before."

GREAT! REAL PROGRESS!

"Few weird things though:
Put in the 84 6Z4 with all the pins on it and it works better.
ground pin 4 and the tube lights up..but this does nothing to improve function or signal."

NO! pin 4 is the cathode of the tube... you need to ground pin 1 to connect the heater, it is right next to a ground lug on the terminal strip...about 1/2 inch away from the pin.

"so left that out and did not solder a wire to ground there."

Good for now! It has been suggested that the diodes are more reliable than the tube rectifier... Do you want to keep using the diodes, or cut them out and use the tube?
If you want use the tube, you will need to connect pin 1 to ground to light it up, and pin 4 (cathode) to the electrolytic cap + where the diodes are connected, to put the tube in the circuit. then you can remove the diodes and use the tube. If you want to continue to use the diodes, perhaps ground pin 1 of the tube to light it up but leave pin 4 disconnected.

"So now wondering if I should replace the electrolytics and wire them the way it is with those diodes and resistors on 84 tube. as the next step?"

I would first decide if I want to use the tube or the solid state diodes.

Have fun!
jr
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  #32  
Old 10-21-2009, 11:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick AV-8 View Post
yeah 3 wires "A", "G", "S".
that how they were labeled with a marker...no signal unless I tought the "G" screw on the radio with a screw driver..or hook up the wire.

What do you think..should I now replace the electrolytics?
Think that could help?
I think Jr tech is right, you need to decide first whether to use the tube or diodes. If the electrolytics were bad you'd either get a lot of hum or they'd probably have killed the diodes. They should get replaced though.

Are you able to tune the stations or do they just come in regardless? I wonder if you might have some bad switch contact.

If the antenna is good you should be able to measure continuity between each wire.

John
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  #33  
Old 10-22-2009, 07:13 AM
Mick AV-8 Mick AV-8 is offline
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Okay..I probably did ground pin 1 for a test and the tube lit up..but it made no difference.

If I have checked the diodes and resistors and the numbers looked okay to Jr.
I would like to just leave that socket alone...and move on.

But I did put in the other tube that did not have one of the pins cut off...that pin went to the #2 pin with a diode..now that the other tube is in that has all 5 pins..it seems to work better.
I can change the stations and only two come in weak and crackly.
The volume works..but not with any great volume.
The trebble/bass also works.
The selector switch that rocks the light selector to different bands seems to have shitty contact..need to get it just right to get a good spot.

Lets please proceed the patient is starting to wake up..we need more anesteshia (wrong spelling)
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  #34  
Old 10-22-2009, 12:20 PM
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The voltages that you measured before on the Red and Blue wires of the second electrolytic were a little low... Did these voltages improve when you replaced the other caps in the set?

jr
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  #35  
Old 10-22-2009, 06:07 PM
Mick AV-8 Mick AV-8 is offline
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The red has gone from 146 to now 205
The blue has gone from 82 to now 100
On the tube socket pin3 was 281 it is now 240 and pin1 was 275 and is now also 240.

I checked the (+) cap to chassis ground it was 251 and now is 276
(+) cap to other side (-) was 271 it is now 291.

When I solder pin1 to ground is it to the chassis or somewhere on a terminal strip??
Used cleaner on the control selector..didnt do anything for reception..stayed the same.
Signal only comes in with the A,G,S, three wire antenna..by only hooking up the "G" wire. Put them all on proper screws and no signal..?
Put just "G" back on alone..Touch it with a screw driver it makes loud crack sound and comes in better when I do that.
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  #36  
Old 10-22-2009, 07:12 PM
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"The red has gone from 146 to now 205
The blue has gone from 82 to now 100"

Sounds ok if anything the red may be a little high

"On the tube socket pin3 was 281 it is now 240 and pin1 was 275 and is now also 240."

Do you mean pin 3 and pin 2 on the 84/6z4 socket?

"I checked the (+) cap to chassis ground it was 251 and now is 276
(+) cap to other side (-) was 271 it is now 291."

Sounds ok.

"When I solder pin1 to ground is it to the chassis or somewhere on a terminal strip??"

It looks as if the one of the middle pins on the terminal strip (right next to pin 1 on the 84/6z4 is connected to the chassis (Rivet that holds the strip to the chassis), that is where I would connect pin 1.

"Used cleaner on the control selector..didnt do anything for reception..stayed the same."

Oh man, that should have helped !

"Signal only comes in with the A,G,S, three wire antenna..by only hooking up the "G" wire. Put them all on proper screws and no signal..?
Put just "G" back on alone..Touch it with a screw driver it makes loud crack sound and comes in better when I do that."

Do you have a signal generator to use to align the set?
Are the tubes good?

jr
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  #37  
Old 10-22-2009, 07:54 PM
Mick AV-8 Mick AV-8 is offline
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"On the tube socket pin3 was 281 it is now 240 and pin1 was 275 and is now also 240."
Do you mean pin 3 and pin 2 on the 84/6z4 socket?

Yes those are now 240 and pin5 is actually at 6.3 just like you mentioned it could be.
I do not have tube tester or signal generator to do alignment.
I have two rocks that I bang together..it does not help much.
You think my next step is to take the tube to a shop for testing?
They will probably tell me they are all bad..to sell me something.
hope you have some new suggestions..seems like we made some awesome progress so far..but now in limbo...have to put my tin foil hat on an think.
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  #38  
Old 10-22-2009, 08:23 PM
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If you have not already done so, you might want to clean all the tube pins. Many times the loctals such as the 7c8,7a6,7b7, XXL will become really corroded. Also it appears that you have two 7b7 tubes ... you might try exchanging the positions of the two 7b7s to see if it makes a difference.

jr
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  #39  
Old 10-23-2009, 05:33 PM
Mick AV-8 Mick AV-8 is offline
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Okay.
I will used some of the solvent cleaner and clean the tube pins and socket assembly.
Also..in my bag of caps I got from Radio Daze..they sent me a .002mf/1600.
I can not find anything in my Philco that this is for.
Also..they ran out of .0047mf/630's..they did not send me them or tell me they could not provide them. Then when I call two weeks ago to replace an order for them..they took the order..never sent me them and when I called back again...they told me they are trying to find some and do not know when they will come in. We are talking almost a month of non commumnication.
Not so good.
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  #40  
Old 10-23-2009, 05:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick AV-8 View Post

Also..in my bag of caps I got from Radio Daze..they sent me a .002mf/1600.
I can not find anything in my Philco that this is for.
Have you replaced Part# 57 on the schematic? ... it is between the plates of the two type 41 output tubes, and is shown as a .002mf.

jr
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  #41  
Old 10-24-2009, 06:25 PM
Mick AV-8 Mick AV-8 is offline
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ITS ALIVE>>>ITS ALIVE>>ITS ALIVE>>>
Well took the great advices and replace the electrolytics, kept the diode, lit the tube, and cleaned all the pin conntections. Its working pretty good right now.
Also messed around with the way the wires to the antenna are hooked and this is what I have right now. from left to right looking forward from the back of the chassis... screw 1 "S",screw 2 "A", screw 3 "nothing hooked", screw 4 "G".
Not sure if this is correct.. but so far it has the best reception.. can not pick up any shirt wave..but I am in the cellar work shop..maybe when I put it upstairs ground level it will be better.
I also noticed that the antenna in standing position close to the chassis makes a big difference in reception..must have something to do with field.
This Philco deffinetly lacks the strong sound and punch that I get out of my 10-tube 10S464 Zenith. I listen to the Zenith almost every day. Works with help from the nice people found at this web site.
Still working to see if I can get some puch out of the speakers on this Philco.
Only has one simple knob for trebble/bass though.
Zenith has an array of sellectors.
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  #42  
Old 10-24-2009, 07:51 PM
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Congratulations!

However, the antenna connection doesn't seem quite right. The schematic is a bit hard to read because of the resolution. It looks like the first terminal is the one that shouldn't be connected in as much as it goes to the speaker. It looks like it's there in case you want an external speaker. You can trace that easily enough to see which terminal goes goes to the speaker.
The A, G, S labels, are they on the antenna leads or the chassis terminal? It sounds like they're on the antenna if I understand you correctly. In that case I think you should have G going to 3, and A to 2 and S to 4, or A to 4 and S to 2. You might have to try both configurations of A and S to see which is correct.

John
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  #43  
Old 10-27-2009, 11:44 AM
Mick AV-8 Mick AV-8 is offline
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Followed your antenna suggestions and it works better now.A2,G3,S4.
Can you spray the electronics solvent cleaner into the volume control unit?
I can not seem to get high volume out of the Philico..my Zenith really packs a punch.
Wondering what things I can look at to help increase the volume output.
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  #44  
Old 10-27-2009, 01:03 PM
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jr_tech jr_tech is offline
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A little solvent contact cleaner might improve the volume control... is it scratchy sounding?

Another experiment that you might try is to hook an external speaker between pin 1 (speaker) and pin 3 (ground) of the antenna terminal ... if it is much louder than the one in the cabinet, it could indicate a problem with the old speaker.

jr
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  #45  
Old 10-30-2009, 09:55 PM
Mick AV-8 Mick AV-8 is offline
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Since I do not have a tube tester, I pluged in the radio and shut off the light.
I can see all the tubes do have a glow. So even though that is true..could one of the tubes be a problem in not getting a loud volume?
The volume control works but all the way up it is not even half of what my Zenith puts out.
Just wondering if there is a certain tube to look at.
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