Rant...just turn down the G2 and recap it

[radiotvnut]

I'm a member of several Facebook groups that have to do with CRT TV's, and other vintage electronics.

I'll focus on one of the CRT TV groups that primarily has to do with later CRT sets, since that relates to the subject of this group.

More than once, someone will ask what's wrong with their 1995 Sony or their 1999 JVC "D-series" and the answers often given will be "recap the board" and/or "turn down the G2 control on the flyback."

I can tell you from 30+ years of fixing TV's, it's usually not necessary to recap a solid state TV (unless it's either a very early one or one that is know to use a crap brand of capacitors); but, if someone wants to do it.....go ahead, it's their time and their money. Mostly, the caps that fail in TV's are limited to the power supply, sweep circuits, and the boost filter cap. Also, there is a lot more that can go wrong besides caps and instead of someone learning to be a "cap changer", they need to learn some basic troubleshooting skills and diagnose the problem. On that note, I've seen more than one piece of equipment that had been recapped; but, it still didn't work and the owner was then clueless. At that point, the equipment usually went up on the shelf until the next clean out, and then I wound up with it.

On older tube stuff, re-capping is often needed; but, I still don't like to jump in and "just do it." Instead, I like to troubleshoot along the way....just to see what I'm up against and to make sure that a major component is not faulty. It's not good to re-cap a set...only to find out that something major is bad that you either can't get or is very costly.

A little earlier today, someone posted in a certain TV Facebook group about a 9" Sony with a dim green raster with retrace lines and wanted suggestions as to what could be wrong. Of course, it's a little hard to diagnose a TV via Facebook; so, I suggested that one of several things could be the problem....including a shorted CRT, leaky or shorted green video output or driver transistor, or improper grey scale adjustment (from possibly someone fiddling with the controls).

Someone then jumped all over me, telling me that my reply was totally unnecessary and confusing, and that all they needed to do was turn down the G2 control on the flyback transformer. Their comment flew all over me and I let them know that I'd only been doing this for 30 years and that I knew what I was talking about. As far as the G2 control on the flyback, they don't just turn themselves up and if the picture suddenly gets bright, something else is wrong and turning down the G2 control may put a band aid on the problem; but, the root cause needs to be looked into.

At that point, they accused me of just being a "ball buster" and at that point, I just let it go....no sense in arguing with them.

Sometime back, in another group, someone accused me and another prominent Youtube member (who makes TV repair videos) of being incompetent morons because we don't have a shop full of lab grade test equipment. Having high end, fancy equipment is nice; but, the best equipment is that thing called a brain that is between your two ears.

In conclusion, I don't claim to be a "know it all" and as long as I continue to engage in this hobby, I will continue to learn. On that note, anything you encounter an argumentative "know it all".....don't walk away from them; but, run away because, in reality, they probably don't know as much as they think they do.

OK, rant over.

[JohnCT]

There are a lot of people who are keyboard warriors. The protection of many miles makes them say things they would never say to your face, which is where my problem lies. I never say anything on FB or anywhere else on the web I wouldn't say to a person directly. Did you ever run across Phil Allison on the web? Smart guy, but he's a total asshat (mods, remove that if you think it doesn't belong here). I very much doubt he would speak to anyone like that in person.

There are a lot of members of these groups who know next to nothing about electronics, but they are the first to jump in and yell "recap" it! Guys like us who have spent a lifetime in consumer electronics can only roll our eyes and ignore the webexperts, lest we have a stroke.

John

[CRTguy]

Originally Posted by radiotvnut

I'm a member of several Facebook groups that have to do with CRT TV's, and other vintage electronics.

I'll focus on one of the CRT TV groups that primarily has to do with later CRT sets, since that relates to the subject of this group.

More than once, someone will ask what's wrong with their 1995 Sony or their 1999 JVC "D-series" and the answers often given will be "recap the board" and/or "turn down the G2 control on the flyback."

I can tell you from 30+ years of fixing TV's, it's usually not necessary to recap a solid state TV (unless it's either a very early one or one that is know to use a crap brand of capacitors); but, if someone wants to do it.....go ahead, it's their time and their money. Mostly, the caps that fail in TV's are limited to the power supply, sweep circuits, and the boost filter cap. Also, there is a lot more that can go wrong besides caps and instead of someone learning to be a "cap changer", they need to learn some basic troubleshooting skills and diagnose the problem. On that note, I've seen more than one piece of equipment that had been recapped; but, it still didn't work and the owner was then clueless. At that point, the equipment usually went up on the shelf until the next clean out, and then I wound up with it.

On older tube stuff, re-capping is often needed; but, I still don't like to jump in and "just do it." Instead, I like to troubleshoot along the way....just to see what I'm up against and to make sure that a major component is not faulty. It's not good to re-cap a set...only to find out that something major is bad that you either can't get or is very costly.

A little earlier today, someone posted in a certain TV Facebook group about a 9" Sony with a dim green raster with retrace lines and wanted suggestions as to what could be wrong. Of course, it's a little hard to diagnose a TV via Facebook; so, I suggested that one of several things could be the problem....including a shorted CRT, leaky or shorted green video output or driver transistor, or improper grey scale adjustment (from possibly someone fiddling with the controls).

Someone then jumped all over me, telling me that my reply was totally unnecessary and confusing, and that all they needed to do was turn down the G2 control on the flyback transformer. Their comment flew all over me and I let them know that I'd only been doing this for 30 years and that I knew what I was talking about. As far as the G2 control on the flyback, they don't just turn themselves up and if the picture suddenly gets bright, something else is wrong and turning down the G2 control may put a band aid on the problem; but, the root cause needs to be looked into.

At that point, they accused me of just being a "ball buster" and at that point, I just let it go....no sense in arguing with them.

Sometime back, in another group, someone accused me and another prominent Youtube member (who makes TV repair videos) of being incompetent morons because we don't have a shop full of lab grade test equipment. Having high end, fancy equipment is nice; but, the best equipment is that thing called a brain that is between your two ears.

In conclusion, I don't claim to be a "know it all" and as long as I continue to engage in this hobby, I will continue to learn. On that note, anything you encounter an argumentative "know it all".....don't walk away from them; but, run away because, in reality, they probably don't know as much as they think they do.

OK, rant over.

I completely understand. I'm a member of the CRT collective on Facebook and I also see members telling other members all the time that have a faulty CRT to just re-cap it and most of the people on there have no idea how to test components, what equipment to use and how to do basic troubleshooting. I know how to solder and replace components but I have very limited testing knowledge and I'm trying to get to that next step where I understand how to use an oscilloscope, measure test points, use a high voltage meter and learn that basic troubleshooting so that I'm not wasting my time blindly replacing components like many of those group members do. Groups on Facebook can sometimes just be toxic and it is usually a small number of the same people spreading misinformation or giving others a hard time about something that they disagree with. Often times it is good to walk away from the argument but if the other person is clearly wrong, it does feel good to set them straight and other people reading the argument can learn about TV repair/troubleshooting from your responses.

I'm looking to buy a high voltage meter and an oscilloscope. I was thinking about getting a used fluke meter and a used fluke high voltage probe. I would like to buy a used oscilloscope off Ebay, do you have any recommendations? I'm not looking to spend a ton of money but just enough to allow me to do troubleshooting. What do you think?

[fixmeplease]

What little I know about tv repair when Im on the FB groups I feel like Im a genius compared to most of them, but not all. Bitch, bitch, bitch, lol. My gosh if someone is going to toss away a common 60's set that has its legs broken off they tell them to save it, lol. Half the people dont even realize you need a converter box to use them now. They've never repaired anything but want to know how to fix their color tube set with a tuneup... But besides that, I hate how posts get buried on FB, the good and bad ones. Its old news in 24 hrs on FB. I much prefer open forums like this one and ARF if I need advise, and I often do.

There are a few collector type FB groups that are interesting though, and some are quite helpful. It just takes the right mods and members to keep it civil and helpful. Hands off moderation doesnt work well on there. Some of the mid century collector groups are very polite as are a vintage refrigerator and a console stereo one I view there.

[JohnCT]

Originally Posted by fixmeplease

But besides that, I hate how posts get buried on FB, the good and bad ones. Its old news in 24 hrs on FB.

Facebook is the very worst thing that could have happened to forums. Too many people only go to FB and don't join dedicated forums.

Originally Posted by fixmeplease

t just takes the right mods and members to keep it civil and helpful. Hands off moderation doesnt work well on there.

Moderation is tough, but too many are power hungry. I just had a comment removed from a vintage TV forum. Some guy from India joined and his first post was to sell a 2005 Philips projection TV and wanted to know the value of it.

I worked on those as a service center, and they were junk. I guess the fact that I mentioned it and suggested he might be able to get someone to take it off his hands if he offered someone a 6 pack (or something to that effect) got my post removed. My rule is that if a post of mine is removed, I just go away without announcing it.

That group essentially swapped a new member selling a piece of junk for an experienced tech with 50 years experience.

The only other time I had a post removed is when someone tried to sell a tube radio on a vintage radio group. I commented that the rules don't allow for sales on the forum and suggested FB Marketplace instead. The mod removed the radio listing, then removed MINE for commenting on a verboten post!! Not only that, but I was put in hack for a week.

I'm a moderator on several FB groups and several Quora groups. I've never had to remove any comment. There was one where I allowed a poster to edit his post, which he did.

Absolute power corrupts absolutely!!

John

[Electronic M]

I've been thinking about joining some facebook TV groups for the last couple of years, but this makes me wonder if it's worth it.

I will say this about recaping VS troubleshooting in tube gear. On stuff made after 1960 where most caps are film VS paper troubleshooting is the way to go, but older sets that are full of paper caps often have so many leaky caps (I've went through some sets with my Heathkit C3 and found %95 shorted or very leaky) that a recap is going to be a large part of your troubleshooting. When most of the caps are bad you can either get them swapped preemptively and troubleshoot the problems that remain, or watch things smoke during voltage checks. On those older sets if I want to check if they are worth the caps beforehand I ohm out the transformers and ring test the sweep transformer and yoke....Granted sets in really good condition I often skip that as bad transformers aren't common and a really nice example is worth finding a parts set if necessary.

[radiotvnut]

Originally Posted by JohnCT

Facebook is the very worst thing that could have happened to forums. Too many people only go to FB and don't join dedicated forums.



Moderation is tough, but too many are power hungry. I just had a comment removed from a vintage TV forum. Some guy from India joined and his first post was to sell a 2005 Philips projection TV and wanted to know the value of it.

I worked on those as a service center, and they were junk. I guess the fact that I mentioned it and suggested he might be able to get someone to take it off his hands if he offered someone a 6 pack (or something to that effect) got my post removed. My rule is that if a post of mine is removed, I just go away without announcing it.

That group essentially swapped a new member selling a piece of junk for an experienced tech with 50 years experience.

The only other time I had a post removed is when someone tried to sell a tube radio on a vintage radio group. I commented that the rules don't allow for sales on the forum and suggested FB Marketplace instead. The mod removed the radio listing, then removed MINE for commenting on a verboten post!! Not only that, but I was put in hack for a week.

I'm a moderator on several FB groups and several Quora groups. I've never had to remove any comment. There was one where I allowed a poster to edit his post, which he did.

Absolute power corrupts absolutely!!

John

I think most moderators are level headed; but, you have some that are absolutely "power hungry" and they are looking for any little thing to use as an excuse to shove their weight around. I've also left some groups because of it; but, unlike some people, I don't make a big deal about leaving....I just leave quietly.

As far as that projection set, most 21st century ones are junk and even the older ones were nothing to write home about. Had I seen that post, I would have answered him the same way.

[JohnCT]

Originally Posted by Electronic M

I've been thinking about joining some facebook TV groups for the last couple of years, but this makes me wonder if it's worth it.

I will say this about recaping VS troubleshooting in tube gear. On stuff made after 1960 where most caps are film VS paper troubleshooting is the way to go, but older sets that are full of paper caps often have so many leaky caps (I've went through some sets with my Heathkit C3 and found %95 shorted or very leaky) that a recap is going to be a large part of your troubleshooting. When most of the caps are bad you can either get them swapped preemptively and troubleshoot the problems that remain, or watch things smoke during voltage checks. On those older sets if I want to check if they are worth the caps beforehand I ohm out the transformers and ring test the sweep transformer and yoke....Granted sets in really good condition I often skip that as bad transformers aren't common and a really nice example is worth finding a parts set if necessary.

What we're talking about are 1980s and 1990s TVs. FB groups don't have sub groups like VK has, so one post will be about a '48 Dumont and the next might be a 2002 CTC195 RCA. Someone will ask a question about the CTC195 and get the "recap the chassis" answers. Sure, there are bad electros in later gear, but it's generally not a wholesale thing unless we're talking about Mitsubishi PIP or format boards, which we recapped 5 years after they were made (smd electros).


John

[fixmeplease]

And i forgot, the same questions over and over, every day. New members wont page down at all. They just post. And nobody reads the replies and keep giving the same answers over and over and over and over. There are some very good posts too, but you have to page down to find them.

I dont get it. Why ask a real serious question to a group that is 90% beginners when 90% of the people here or ARF actually know the RIGHT answer. at least thats how it seems to me with the questions I have asked here. Ive never asked one on FB except minor questions about others stuff.

FB isnt all bad with the groups. Just some of them.

[maxhifi]

I've received "recapped" equipment which suffered significant damage because of a capacitor installed backwards. I only touch it if it is either cheap or a very desirable item.

[MadMan]

Some people are just stupid.

[Titan1a]

I try exercising intelligence by listening to people. I expect there are people who are smarter, mature or more educated than myself. I dedicate this tome to them. I have many vintage electronics to operate because of them.

[zeno]

OK I will rant or as we say piss & moan.
Some may remember here a Maggy SS console with a blown HOT.
Walked him through the simple process & no joy.
He had spent the time fretting over a color issue it had before
but he had no HV yet ! Next go around he played in the HV but
followed no advice. That set never got fixed & it was a simple design
to deal with

Next not really a rant but advice for newbees. Learn the block diagram
for a B&W TV then get a raster. From there troubleshoot ONE thing
at a time. Even on elderly sets dont do a wholesale cap change.
Do a few at a time & learn as you go. And how many times have we
read "I just did a recap & now it dont work". Most of those dont get fixed either.

enuf fer now
LFOD !

[Yamamaya42]

Originally Posted by MadMan

Some people are just stupid.

I agree with you on that...

I only had to replace 2 electrolytic capacitors in my 100% SS CTC-90 (hate that set!) cause I KNEW they were bad, High fail rate, vert circuit, It is foolish to go and just replace anything that is not really bad, especially in anything made after the 1980s.

[rwagoner]

I am most certainly NOT an expert, but with the Zenith TV I just got working again with the help of someone here, along with lots of "vintage" equipment around my house, I'd say your "rants" are spot on. And I am so glad I DIDN'T try to recap the entire power supply board in the Zenith because the three I changed were a pain in the butt as they were because the soldering side of the board had some weird issues that took a while to fix/clean before the solder would flow right.

Richard