Videokarma.org

Go Back   Videokarma.org TV - Video - Vintage Television & Radio Forums > Early B&W and Projection TV

We appreciate your help

in keeping this site going.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #76  
Old 03-24-2017, 01:17 AM
EdKozk2 EdKozk2 is offline
Tinker
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Elkhorn, WI
Posts: 299
Tim,
Since you don't have a scope you could try to isolate the trouble better. Disconnect/ unsolder C61 250mmf from pin 4 of V9. Leave C61 disconnected and then turn on the set. The picture should roll but, see if you can adjust the vertical size, if so set it. Next see if the vertical hold control has any effect on the vertical roll. If you can get the vertical roll to almost stop with the vertical hold in mid-position thats good. If the vertical hold has no effect or won't slow down enough then the trouble could well be a bad cap or resistor. The bad cap or resistor would determine the time constant the free running vertical oscillator frequency.
If the vertical roll can be slowed down and controlled, then I would next start checking the output of the sync separator. Try connecting a voltmeter set on AC volts, high range to start, to the end of the disconnected C61. You should be getting an AC voltage reading of some sort. You may have to adjust your voltmeters range downward to get a better reading. If there is no AC voltage present then the trouble is syn related. The integrated sync pulse voltage is what your trying to measure. Try these steps and let us know the results.
Reply With Quote
  #77  
Old 03-24-2017, 06:17 AM
timmy's Avatar
timmy timmy is offline
VideoKarma Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: ferndale ny
Posts: 1,726
Quote:
Originally Posted by EdKozk2 View Post
Tim,
Since you don't have a scope you could try to isolate the trouble better. Disconnect/ unsolder C61 250mmf from pin 4 of V9. Leave C61 disconnected and then turn on the set. The picture should roll but, see if you can adjust the vertical size, if so set it. Next see if the vertical hold control has any effect on the vertical roll. If you can get the vertical roll to almost stop with the vertical hold in mid-position thats good. If the vertical hold has no effect or won't slow down enough then the trouble could well be a bad cap or resistor. The bad cap or resistor would determine the time constant the free running vertical oscillator frequency.
If the vertical roll can be slowed down and controlled, then I would next start checking the output of the sync separator. Try connecting a voltmeter set on AC volts, high range to start, to the end of the disconnected C61. You should be getting an AC voltage reading of some sort. You may have to adjust your voltmeters range downward to get a better reading. If there is no AC voltage present then the trouble is syn related. The integrated sync pulse voltage is what your trying to measure. Try these steps and let us know the results.
Ok I took the leg of c61 250mmf off and the size has very little affect and the vert hold also it's hard to see anything it's rolling so fast the hold I can see it slows Alittle from one end to the other on turning the pot the same for the size pot. I checked the cap pin for ac volts and I get .300 vac jumping around a bit. If there is a bad cap I may put in or a resistor I may have missed do you have an idea which one It might be. Maybe I put in a cap that is detective .

Last edited by timmy; 03-24-2017 at 06:33 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #78  
Old 03-24-2017, 07:06 AM
kvflyer kvflyer is offline
VideoKarma Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Catonsville, MD, USA
Posts: 779
If you can't get the vertical to stop rolling with the hold control, (with the sync pulse disconnected) it seems as thought he vertical oscillator is off frequency. You should be able to get the picture to get close however, it needs sync to lock in.

You might check the capacitors in the oscillator circuit to be sure the correct value is there. Also, resistors for one that may have gone high in value or maybe one that was replaced with a value that is 10 off (Like 270KΩ instead of 27KΩ or .01 ᶙFD instead of .001 ᶙFd).

Just a thought. I realize how maddening it is!
Reply With Quote
  #79  
Old 03-24-2017, 08:13 AM
timmy's Avatar
timmy timmy is offline
VideoKarma Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: ferndale ny
Posts: 1,726
This is what happens when I put a 1 meg across the .004 cap and if I measure across the resistor there is around 3 volts dc I'm also showing 2.7 volts ac as well.tried another .004. With out the resistor can't see a pic and nothing works. Almost seems maybe ground leakage or ac getting to ground and the resistor kills it enough to work Alittle, ah I don't know.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg image.jpg (70.1 KB, 21 views)

Last edited by timmy; 03-24-2017 at 08:46 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #80  
Old 03-24-2017, 03:07 PM
EdKozk2 EdKozk2 is offline
Tinker
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Elkhorn, WI
Posts: 299
Timmy,
I compared the Sams schematic to the Riders for the TS-18 chassis. There seem to be a few differences and maybe errors. I' ll use Sams part numbers. Resistor R-59 should be 22 meg not 2.2 meg. Resistor R-56 is shown as 150K ohms not 100k. Also make sure C-61 through C-68 are the correct replacements,
voltage and tolerance wise. If trying these changes don't slow down the vertical then you can try increasing the capacitance of C-64.
Ed
Reply With Quote
Audiokarma
  #81  
Old 03-24-2017, 03:52 PM
timmy's Avatar
timmy timmy is offline
VideoKarma Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: ferndale ny
Posts: 1,726
[QUOTE=EdKozk2;3181220]Timmy,
I compared the Sams schematic to the Riders for the TS-18 chassis. There seem to be a few differences and maybe errors. I' ll use Sams part numbers. Resistor R-59 should be 22 meg not 2.2 meg. Resistor R-56 is shown as 150K ohms not 100k. Also make sure C-61 through C-68 are the correct replacements,
voltage and tolerance wise. If trying these changes don't slow down the vertical then you can try increasing the capacitance of C-64.
Ed[/QUOTE
Well it is a ts18 but the resistor I pulled out judging by the colors was a 2.2 and it's weird that the riders would say a 22 meg goes there. This chassis was never touched it had all the old wax caps and where r56 is it's definitely original 100k and the Micas don't show a voltage but the Micas I put in are the same ones in my other tvs , ts4d, ts18, and so on and are rated for 500 v and may be a few rated for 1000 v other then that all the caps that replaced are 600 v .
Reply With Quote
  #82  
Old 03-24-2017, 03:53 PM
jr_tech's Avatar
jr_tech jr_tech is offline
VideoKarma Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,332
Resistor R-59 should be 22 meg not 2.2 meg

I think you found the "red X".... just checked the Sams schematics for VT 71 and 73 and they both have 20 to 22 meg at that location.

jr
Reply With Quote
  #83  
Old 03-24-2017, 04:01 PM
timmy's Avatar
timmy timmy is offline
VideoKarma Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: ferndale ny
Posts: 1,726
Quote:
Originally Posted by jr_tech View Post
Resistor R-59 should be 22 meg not 2.2 meg

I think you found the "red X".... just checked the Sams schematics for VT 71 and 73 and they both have 20 to 22 meg at that location.

jr
The resistor I took out was original and if it were an original 22 meg resistor I don't think it would have measured a perfect 22 after all the years I would have thought it would have been up around 25 or 28 meg. My SAMs I got from early television and r59 shows 2.2 meg so I'm now really confused.
Reply With Quote
  #84  
Old 03-24-2017, 04:13 PM
EdKozk2 EdKozk2 is offline
Tinker
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Elkhorn, WI
Posts: 299
Timmy,
The parts list in the Sams shows 22 meg, but the schematic is most likely incorrect.
Reply With Quote
  #85  
Old 03-24-2017, 04:19 PM
timmy's Avatar
timmy timmy is offline
VideoKarma Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: ferndale ny
Posts: 1,726
OH ok I'll look then I'll look for a 22 meg or make one up. I do remember I didn't get anything different after putting in that 2.2 so I'll get on that and let you know.
Reply With Quote
Audiokarma
  #86  
Old 03-24-2017, 05:31 PM
timmy's Avatar
timmy timmy is offline
VideoKarma Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: ferndale ny
Posts: 1,726
Ok, you guys nailed it, lol, omg what a headache yes it was a 22 meg so next time I will be double checking the parts list and I know better I have had problems like this befor with SAMs. So in anyone's opinion rather then an exact 22 meg which may be better, 15,16, 18 meg I don't want to go over 22 meg. And the vert hold is about maxed so I'm going to add a resistor but the wiper is closest to the ground end so should I increase or decrease the value, I think in the beginning I paralleled a resistor to the I think it's 3.3 meg at the pot to have it at least mid point. I guess it's age within the pot. And again thanks very much for all the help now it's yet another learning experience for me. What value should I start with on the pot. Thanks. Ok well I decided to leave the vert hold alone even though it's close to a quarter befor the end but it locks strong and the 22 meg I wound up putting in a resistor close to 19 meg and the vert size is good and chances are if I had put in 22 meg it may change the position of the vert hold toward the half mark.

Last edited by timmy; 03-24-2017 at 07:16 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #87  
Old 03-25-2017, 10:22 AM
timmy's Avatar
timmy timmy is offline
VideoKarma Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: ferndale ny
Posts: 1,726
Here is the final result although it's a green tube because the tube that came with the set is on the dark side but watchable but I'm not going to use it.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg image.jpg (53.5 KB, 25 views)
Reply With Quote
  #88  
Old 03-25-2017, 06:40 PM
EdKozk2 EdKozk2 is offline
Tinker
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Elkhorn, WI
Posts: 299
Picture looks good Timmy.
Reply With Quote
  #89  
Old 03-26-2017, 10:09 AM
kvflyer kvflyer is offline
VideoKarma Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Catonsville, MD, USA
Posts: 779
A little late to the party (as usual). Here is a scan of a Motorola schematic, dated 20 December, 1949. It is from the Motorola Company, not Sams etc.

Reply With Quote
  #90  
Old 03-26-2017, 12:57 PM
timmy's Avatar
timmy timmy is offline
VideoKarma Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: ferndale ny
Posts: 1,726
Yes I see r61 22 meg my mistake had I not checked that resistor befor I replaced all the Micas in the verticle because I changed the resistor then tried it and was no good then I changed the Micas and still no good when all along it was the Micas and not that resistor. I had problems befor with SAMs and I should have know to compare the parts list with the schematic. Again my mistake because I thought the resistor was red, red, green 2.2 meg, instead it was red, red, blue 22 meg. Thanks
Reply With Quote
Audiokarma
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:08 AM.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
ęCopyright 2012 VideoKarma.org, All rights reserved.