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  #16  
Old 11-16-2017, 07:41 PM
centralradio centralradio is offline
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Hum .Whos pockets got filled this time.I cant say here.LOL.......
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  #17  
Old 11-17-2017, 10:25 AM
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If it ain't broke, break it for a cash grab.

There are a couple of exceptions to this rule I can think of, the Bear and the BUFF. Of course they were never sold to the public.
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  #18  
Old 11-18-2017, 04:22 AM
Titan1a Titan1a is offline
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I read about the possibility of ATSC 3.0 being used for surveillance. No new box, no new set, no new antenna. When the current system expires I'll rely on disc and streaming. Take THAT FCC and broadcast TV!!!
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  #19  
Old 11-18-2017, 02:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Titan1a View Post
I read about the possibility of ATSC 3.0 being used for surveillance. No new box, no new set, no new antenna. When the current system expires I'll rely on disc and streaming. Take THAT FCC and broadcast TV!!!
Whatever happens with broadcast TV, now or in the future, won't bother me in the least. I gave up on broadcast TV and cable some time ago, and did not look back. I now watch TV via streaming video (Roku, with the Spectrum TV app for local channels) and DVD/VHS. I don't miss broadcast or cable a bit. I must maintain a cable account, but that is strictly so the Spectrum (formerly Time-Warner Cable) app will receive local TV; however, I don't use the cable at all--I couldn't if I wanted to, since the full-digital switch mandates the use of a cable box ahead of the TV, which I don't want (don't care for the extra charge which would appear on my cable bill). The cable that once was connected to my VCR and cable outlet is now rolled up in a coil in my bedroom closet, unused.
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Last edited by Jeffhs; 11-18-2017 at 04:27 PM.
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  #20  
Old 11-18-2017, 07:38 PM
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If the new standard is successful, I would suspect that eventually 4k streams would eventually prevail... Of course, Roku and other stream box sellers would likely jump at the chance to sell new boxes... much $$$$ could be made if they force an upgrade, by phasing out lower quality streams. But, that is years away, nevertheless, a distant possibility, IMHO.

jr
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  #21  
Old 11-19-2017, 11:53 AM
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I'm still trying to figure out the appeal of 4K TV. Don't you have to sit 3' away from your 90" 4K TV to tell the difference from a regular 1080p TV?

I'm really suprised they would even bother with a 4K spec'd ATSC standard. Most of the TV broadcasted in my neck of the woods is still 720p or less and looks like crap due to compression artifacts.
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  #22  
Old 11-19-2017, 12:12 PM
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4k does make improvement in vernier resolution (fine discrimination of object position) even at regular viewing distances, but trials show that this is not as noticeable an improvement as high dynamic range and, secondarily, wide color gamut. So, 4k may be broadcast simply as a numbers race, but it is likely that the real visual improvement will be HDR, which ATSC 3 will also enable.
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  #23  
Old 11-19-2017, 02:30 PM
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Also, WCG, emersive audio, portable on the move A/V, and it allows broadcasters to be on the same playing field with streaming services.

Undoubtedly, there will be charges from “premium” services, but free OTA is still mandated by Congress.
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  #24  
Old 11-28-2017, 01:25 PM
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Oh goody. More junk on the way. I wish they could have left things alone and stayed with ntsc.
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  #25  
Old 11-28-2017, 02:14 PM
centralradio centralradio is offline
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Originally Posted by pac.attack76 View Post
Oh goody. More junk on the way. I wish they could have left things alone and stayed with ntsc.
I agree 110 percent.If it aint broke dont fix it..Blame the numnuts with the 1996 telebill disaster .Whats next.The whole country got to ditch their AM/FM radios for crappy digital radio.
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  #26  
Old 11-28-2017, 10:03 PM
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I agree 110 percent.If it aint broke dont fix it..Blame the numnuts with the 1996 telebill disaster .Whats next.The whole country got to ditch their AM/FM radios for crappy digital radio.
The system has been "fixed" already, and the so-called fix was a disaster, IMHO. Whatever was or was not done to AM or FM radio today doesn't matter in the least to me, as I don't listen to radio much anymore. In my area near Cleveland, all anyone can hear from one end of the radio dial to the other is noise. That is, I get plenty of stations, but their idea of music isn't mine.

The stations also carry more commercials than I think they need to, a problem we didn't have 30-40+ years ago when there were definite, strict regulations as to how many commercials any radio or TV station could run in any given hour. When the FCC did away with those rules in the '80s, the stations were (and are, to this day) free to run as many commercials as they want or feel they need. There is at least one FM station in Cleveland that runs commercials and even infomercials (!) all night long, from midnight Saturday until about six o'clock Sunday morning. This has been going on at that station, and most others in this area (including TV stations), for quite some time; this is also why TV stations no longer sign off at 2-3 a.m. local time as they once did.

As to HD (digital) AM and FM radio, I don't know who actually listens to those stations, as there aren't that many radios (except perhaps car stereo systems) that can receive these HD stations anyway. I have a feeling that HD radio will eventually die a quiet death, as did quadraphonic (four-channel) stereo sound broadcasting. There is such a thing as 5.1-channel stereo (CBS-TV is now or was using this system a few years ago, while NBC and ABC may or may not be currently transmitting their programs' audio in MTS stereo; I remember NBC's MTS stereo system, begun in 1986 or so, in which the beginning of every show the network telecast in stereo sound had a disclaimer on the screen: "In ((stereo)) where available", but most MTS stereo TV sound is just that, stereo sound broadcast from TV stations and received, for the most part, over TVs with small transistor-radio speakers, either at both sides of the LCD panel or, as in my own flat-screen set, mounted so that the speakers talk to the shelf or stand the TV is mounted on, not to the viewer.

My point is that four-channel stereo was a flop, as will be HD radio if it survives long enough. I agree that if the system (in this case, the ATSC television standard) isn't broken no one has any right to fix it, but the TV industry has been constantly trying to "reinvent the wheel" for years in the name of making more money (!), a practice that eventually will reach a point of diminishing or even no returns; after all, there is just so much anyone (or any group) can do with TV signals. HDTV itself isn't bad, as it provides viewers with sharper, clearer pictures (shaped like the original broadcast picture, as all HDTVs have square screens) than NTSC analog could ever have delivered, not to mention more channels; however, as I said, I feel eventually the industry is going to run out of ideas, as there is only so much anyone (or any organization, industry, etc.) can do to improve anything. I once read a pie-in-the-sky prediction (I don't remember where) that a system or systems are currently being researched that may eventually enable humans to watch television in their eyes (!), of all places.

I am all for improvements if they will actually make our ATSC TV system better than it is now, but as far as improvements simply for the sake of improvements are concerned, no. I was against HDTV at first, as I do not adjust well to change; however, when I saw how much better my TV picture was on a flat screen, I changed my tune in a hurry and bought a 19-inch flat-screen TV in 2011. I did not care at first for ATSC 3.0; I eventually realized, however, that it will only affect OTA TV reception, not cable, satellite or streaming video (the last being how I watch TV these days). I don't want another converter box on my TV (my Roku player, with the Spectrum TV app, is plenty good enough for me and is, along with DVDs, how I watch TV, now and in the foreseeable future), not to mention an extra charge on my cable bill. I sometimes wish I could do away with my cable account altogether (which would save me quite a bit), but if I did, the Spectrum app on my Roku would no longer receive local TV channels--another not-so-subtle money grab by Spectrum (formerly Time Warner Cable). The company recently converted all its cable systems in this area to full digital, requiring a cable box or streaming-video box to receive anything; yup, you guessed it, yet another cash grab. I would go back to using an OTA antenna were it not for a pesky reception problem I have here; fortunately, my Roku player has solved this problem, and the results are so pleasing I haven't looked back.
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Last edited by Jeffhs; 11-28-2017 at 10:49 PM.
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  #27  
Old 11-28-2017, 11:28 PM
centralradio centralradio is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeffhs View Post
The system has been "fixed" already, and the so-called fix was a disaster, IMHO. Whatever was or was not done to AM or FM radio today doesn't matter in the least to me, as I don't listen to radio much anymore. In my area near Cleveland, all anyone can hear from one end of the radio dial to the other is noise. That is, I get plenty of stations, but their idea of music isn't mine.

The stations also carry more commercials than I think they need to, a problem we didn't have 30-40+ years ago when there were definite, strict regulations as to how many commercials any radio or TV station could run in any given hour. When the FCC did away with those rules in the '80s, the stations were (and are, to this day) free to run as many commercials as they want or feel they need. There is at least one FM station in Cleveland that runs commercials and even infomercials (!) all night long, from midnight Saturday until about six o'clock Sunday morning. This has been going on at that station, and most others in this area (including TV stations), for quite some time; this is also why TV stations no longer sign off at 2-3 a.m. local time as they once did.

As to HD (digital) AM and FM radio, I don't know who actually listens to those stations, as there aren't that many radios (except perhaps car stereo systems) that can receive these HD stations anyway. I have a feeling that HD radio will eventually die a quiet death, as did quadraphonic (four-channel) stereo sound broadcasting. There is such a thing as 5.1-channel stereo (CBS-TV is now or was using this system a few years ago, while NBC and ABC may or may not be currently transmitting their programs' audio in MTS stereo; I remember NBC's MTS stereo system, begun in 1986 or so, in which the beginning of every show the network telecast in stereo sound had a disclaimer on the screen: "In ((stereo)) where available", but most MTS stereo TV sound is just that, stereo sound broadcast from TV stations and received, for the most part, over TVs with small transistor-radio speakers, either at both sides of the LCD panel or, as in my own flat-screen set, mounted so that the speakers talk to the shelf or stand the TV is mounted on, not to the viewer.

My point is that four-channel stereo was a flop, as will be HD radio if it survives long enough. I agree that if the system (in this case, the ATSC television standard) isn't broken no one has any right to fix it, but the TV industry has been constantly trying to "reinvent the wheel" for years in the name of making more money (!), a practice that eventually will reach a point of diminishing or even no returns; after all, there is just so much anyone (or any group) can do with TV signals. HDTV itself isn't bad, as it provides viewers with sharper, clearer pictures (shaped like the original broadcast picture, as all HDTVs have square screens) than NTSC analog could ever have delivered, not to mention more channels; however, as I said, I feel eventually the industry is going to run out of ideas, as there is only so much anyone (or any organization, industry, etc.) can do to improve anything. I once read a pie-in-the-sky prediction (I don't remember where) that a system or systems are currently being researched that may eventually enable humans to watch television in their eyes (!), of all places.

I am all for improvements if they will actually make our ATSC TV system better than it is now, but as far as improvements simply for the sake of improvements are concerned, no. I was against HDTV at first, as I do not adjust well to change; however, when I saw how much better my TV picture was on a flat screen, I changed my tune in a hurry and bought a 19-inch flat-screen TV in 2011. I did not care at first for ATSC 3.0; I eventually realized, however, that it will only affect OTA TV reception, not cable, satellite or streaming video (the last being how I watch TV these days). I don't want another converter box on my TV (my Roku player, with the Spectrum TV app, is plenty good enough for me and is, along with DVDs, how I watch TV, now and in the foreseeable future), not to mention an extra charge on my cable bill. I sometimes wish I could do away with my cable account altogether (which would save me quite a bit), but if I did, the Spectrum app on my Roku would no longer receive local TV channels--another not-so-subtle money grab by Spectrum (formerly Time Warner Cable). The company recently converted all its cable systems in this area to full digital, requiring a cable box or streaming-video box to receive anything; yup, you guessed it, yet another cash grab. I would go back to using an OTA antenna were it not for a pesky reception problem I have here; fortunately, my Roku player has solved this problem, and the results are so pleasing I haven't looked back.
Thank you Jeff for the great post.I understand what you are saying.
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  #28  
Old 11-29-2017, 02:19 AM
Titan1a Titan1a is offline
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Quadraphonic was beset by multiple incompatible standards. SQ matrix wasn't really ready until nearly the end of the line as was CD-4 or "chain saw" playback using the supersonic sub-carrier. No such thing as high fidelity 8-track tape. Also, I still have a quad open reel TEAC A3340S. Quadraphonic FM was either matrix (SQ, QS, EV4) or the Dorren system using an addition subcarrier requiring double the transmitting power and messing up MUSAK.

Don't forget the debacle of Dolby FM and FMX. The current system of FM is a kludge which degraded it's fidelity. Only TV FM audio was improved with DBX using noise reduction on the L-R audio subchannel.

There's still a battle over which audio multi channel format will be used for movies and home theatre. Optical multi channel disk formats are also silently at war. Why can't somebody get these "jerks" to come up with compatible standards? As long as nobody can make up their minds don't expect multi channel audio to replace stereo in any media. And as long as there's continued inertia in the markets don't expect ATSC 3.
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  #29  
Old 12-07-2017, 11:15 AM
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KentTeffeteller KentTeffeteller is offline
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The only Quad FM format which would have been viable would have been QS. It's the only phase coherent, truly backwards compatible matrix of the lot. And the only record format which was broadcast friendly, and encoded records on FM would have stayed encoded and decodeable at the FM receiver end.
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  #30  
Old 12-07-2017, 11:17 AM
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KentTeffeteller KentTeffeteller is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Titan1a View Post
Quadraphonic was beset by multiple incompatible standards. SQ matrix wasn't really ready until nearly the end of the line as was CD-4 or "chain saw" playback using the supersonic sub-carrier. No such thing as high fidelity 8-track tape. Also, I still have a quad open reel TEAC A3340S. Quadraphonic FM was either matrix (SQ, QS, EV4) or the Dorren system using an addition subcarrier requiring double the transmitting power and messing up MUSAK.

Don't forget the debacle of Dolby FM and FMX. The current system of FM is a kludge which degraded it's fidelity. Only TV FM audio was improved with DBX using noise reduction on the L-R audio subchannel.

There's still a battle over which audio multi channel format will be used for movies and home theatre. Optical multi channel disk formats are also silently at war. Why can't somebody get these "jerks" to come up with compatible standards? As long as nobody can make up their minds don't expect multi channel audio to replace stereo in any media. And as long as there's continued inertia in the markets don't expect ATSC 3.
And also don't expect ATSC3 to be practical either when Cable TV and Satellite can't even give us pristine 1080p without being downrezzed either.
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