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  #1  
Old 03-20-2017, 01:28 PM
Shibby Shibby is offline
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Sony Indextron...What do I have here guys? (REPAIR IN PROGRESS)

So i happened upon a white sony indextron at the thrift store the other day and found some interesting things online about it but as a whole there isnt a ton. It isnt currently working but i may hae found the culprit in a blown fuse on the power board. Upon visual inspection the caps look fine though the esr is reading a bit high on most. I do plan to recap but i want to see what the fuse does first as I do like the idea of keeping it as original as possible.

Anyways are these things still sought after? What do you think its value might be at this point? I would post pictures but at the moment it is in pieces. Like I said it is a white version with a manufacture date of Jan. 1989. The buttons have slightly yellowed with age which is pretty typical of electronics from this era.

Last edited by Shibby; 07-31-2017 at 11:33 AM. Reason: Started Repairs
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Old 03-20-2017, 03:14 PM
WISCOJIM WISCOJIM is offline
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I've had several of these over the years, and although they are pretty cool and have some unique technology behind them, they are vary finicky, and die easily. I'm actually glad to no longer own any of them.

These are not easy to recap. And the problematic caps in these spew corrosive gunk on the circuit boards causing further damage. You may be better off having Andy recap it, he has the experience with these. http://mail.videokarma.org/showthread.php?t=122975

You can get the service data from Jerome Halphen here: http://www.videokarma.org/showpost.p...9&postcount=11

The white one seems to be much scarcer than the black one.

The value is hard to determine, because very few appear in any year on ebay. But they are down from the early 2000's, where a good one could bring in $300-750 depending on condition, complete with the box, etc.

.
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Old 03-20-2017, 03:51 PM
Shibby Shibby is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WISCOJIM View Post
I've had several of these over the years, and although they are pretty cool and have some unique technology behind them, they are vary finicky, and die easily. I'm actually glad to no longer own any of them.

These are not easy to recap. And the problematic caps in these spew corrosive gunk on the circuit boards causing further damage. You may be better off having Andy recap it, he has the experience with these. http://mail.videokarma.org/showthread.php?t=122975

You can get the service data from Jerome Halphen here: http://www.videokarma.org/showpost.p...9&postcount=11

The white one seems to be much scarcer than the black one.

The value is hard to determine, because very few appear in any year on ebay. But they are down from the early 2000's, where a good one could bring in $300-750 depending on condition, complete with the box, etc.

.
Thank you so much for the response. I first want to say that I dont want anyone to think that I am only interested in what it is worth. I am more interested in the old school technology and the nostalgia factor. Not to mention the challenge of repair. Though I am very much a beginner when it comes to understanding circuits and the components contained within them i am fairly decent with a soldering iron and jump at the chance to further my skills with a new challenge. I would certainly love to get Andys take on the actual repair process and any tips he may have. When it comes down to it it may end up in his hands anyways .

As far as the caps in my unit it has passed the sight test with flying colors. Not a single cap is bulging and i have not been able to find any signs of a leak. I know this really doesnt mean anything and i still plan to recap but I just thought that was interesting given the fact that its pretty much the first thing you read about when you look these things up. I have tested about four of the caps already with an esr meter and they were all reading slightly above spec telling me that if they arnt bad already they are certainly on their way out. The biggest most obvious issue that i did notice was the blown galss fuse. It make me wonder if this fuse blew earlier in its life which might explain the relative "ok'ness" of the caps. Its all speculation at this point until I am able to get a replacement fuse in. It has been surprisingly hard to find a fuse of that exact type. I have yet to find someone that sells a through hole glass fuse with the same specs as the original. I might just buy a holder style glass fuse and solder the pins from the old one to the new one. after all it does look like the old one was done this way.
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Old 03-20-2017, 04:54 PM
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I've never seen one that didn't have leaking caps, but it's possible they made some with good caps from a different lot. It was definitely a case of using a bad batch of caps. The caps don't bulge, they just leak through the bottom rubber seals. It's not related to use; I've seen new old stock ones that were full of leaking caps. The problem caps are the 105 degree high temperature caps.

There are some caps hidden under the metal shield on the bottom PCB.

You can replace the glass fuse with any style of fuse with the same specs. Through hole PCB mount fuses are easy to find. It can be tricky to solder wires to a glass fuse without the ends falling off.

Did it come with the original power adapter? If not, the fuse might be blown due to incorrect polarity. It has a negative tip, and most power adapters have the top as positive.

Once the caps have been replaced, and the boards cleaned and repaired, they are actually very reliable. I have never seen a failure that wasn't the direct result of leaking caps.
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Old 03-20-2017, 07:12 PM
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etype2 etype2 is offline
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Shibby:

First, welcome to Videokarma. As to reliability, just what Andy said, especially his last paragraph. I own two Indextron's, both recapped by Andy. This was done 7 years ago. They both function well today.

The point I want to stress, congratulations, you have come into possession of a very rare television in terms of uniqueness and television history. If you don't already know, these sets are highly desired by collectors, the reason being, the Indextron was the first stand alone Index color consumer television. The Indextron paints a color picture with only one electron beam! See this link for more information. https://visions4netjournal.com/indextron/

Edit: I have the complete service manual. It's yours for the asking.
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Last edited by etype2; 03-20-2017 at 07:21 PM.
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  #6  
Old 03-20-2017, 07:24 PM
Shibby Shibby is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andy View Post
I've never seen one that didn't have leaking caps, but it's possible they made some with good caps from a different lot. It was definitely a case of using a bad batch of caps. The caps don't bulge, they just leak through the bottom rubber seals. It's not related to use; I've seen new old stock ones that were full of leaking caps. The problem caps are the 105 degree high temperature caps.

There are some caps hidden under the metal shield on the bottom PCB.

You can replace the glass fuse with any style of fuse with the same specs. Through hole PCB mount fuses are easy to find. It can be tricky to solder wires to a glass fuse without the ends falling off.

Did it come with the original power adapter? If not, the fuse might be blown due to incorrect polarity. It has a negative tip, and most power adapters have the top as positive.

Once the caps have been replaced, and the boards cleaned and repaired, they are actually very reliable. I have never seen a failure that wasn't the direct result of leaking caps.
Thanks so much for chiming in. Now that I look close there are def a few that have gone. One is leaking out of the side and 2 others are leaking out of the bottom and you can see where a bit of corrosion has set in on the underside of the board where the legs come through. So do you replace literally every cap? even the tiny ones without the scored tops? better yet do you happen to have a list of all the required caps needed for the job? An old digikey shopping list would be super helpful. Would certainly be willing to throw a few bucks your way for the effort.

Also now that you say that about the power adapter the blown fuse may be my own fault. It did come with the original power adapter but when i plugged it in at the thrift store to test the tv i got nothing. when i grabbed the adapter i accidentally dropped it on the floor so i thought it might be possible that i accidentally broke it. I grabbed another adapter of the same spec and tried again but nothing. That may be where it popped because before i distinctly remember hearing a noise come through the speaker when i initially plugged it in but after trying the other adapter i got nothing.

Ill post pictures here in a bit.
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Old 03-20-2017, 07:35 PM
Shibby Shibby is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by etype2 View Post
Shibby:

First, welcome to Videokarma. As to reliability, just what Andy said, especially his last paragraph. I own two Indextron's, both recapped by Andy. This was done 7 years ago. They both function well today.

The point I want to stress, congratulations, you have come into possession of a very rare television in terms of uniqueness and television history. If you don't already know, these sets are highly desired by collectors, the reason being, the Indextron was the first stand alone Index color consumer television. The Indextron paints a color picture with only one electron beam! See this link for more information. https://visions4netjournal.com/indextron/

Edit: I have the complete service manual. It's yours for the asking.
etype2 thanks so much for the welcome. for a while there i didnt think i would ever get logged in here. I think it took almost a week to get accepted after fighting for nearly a full day to even create an account. Anyways I finally made it. Thank you so much for the offer. I would love to have it if it isnt too much trouble.

Also it may sound crazy but its sort of an honor to me that i get to work on such a niche little part of history. I am certainly not into old televisions like the rest of you but I can certainly appreciate it. My grandfather in his day was the local tv repair guy and when I was very young i use to watch him fix them in his work room. That along with old jukeboxes. I really wish the family still had that house along with all the old tools to be able to share with you guys. He died a few years ago and left me with all of his old audio equipment including 70's record players, several reel to reel players and countless records and reels. did i mention he fixed jukeboxes? this means when he would get a new one in he would empty the records to add to his collection then sell the fixed machine off to the new guy. needless to say my little townhome is busting at the seems with boxes. or at least it use to be. I was able to sell of a good bit of the undesirable stuff.
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Old 03-20-2017, 07:46 PM
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etype2 etype2 is offline
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The Service manuel has a lot of pages, waveforms, parts list etc. Will try to send you a PDF.

Good luck with it.
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Old 03-20-2017, 08:22 PM
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dtvmcdonald dtvmcdonald is offline
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At the bottom is the parts list I sent to Mouser. It was supposed to
be all the caps with a few extra type because I was not sure of size fit.
I missed a few, including one hidden under the shield (bit only one) and two
on the main board, I believe 0.47 uF. This was all the 105 degree C caps.
Almost all were actually bad.

Even recapped it didn't work since my attempts at cleaning the goo
didn't get under the surface mount resistors. Apparently you really do need
an ultrasonic. I had to pay Andy. He said that the problem was surface
mount resistors that were still stuck on but had bad solder contacts.

It does work OK except that some controls have slightly inadequate range.

Doug McDonald


The caps listed below are indeed correct types.

Select Product Detail
Customer Part #

Order Qty.

Price
(USD)

Ext.
(USD)

Status Date Invoice #

Mouser #: 647-UPW1E471MPD
Mfr. #: UPW1E471MPD
Desc.: Aluminum Electrolytic Capacitors - Leaded Aluminum Electrolytic Capacitors - Leaded 25volts 470uF 10x16 20% 5LS
3 $0.30 $0.90
3 Shipped Jun 30, 2016 41306822

Mouser #: 647-UPW1A471MPD
Mfr. #: UPW1A471MPD
Desc.: Aluminum Electrolytic Capacitors - Leaded Aluminum Electrolytic Capacitors - Leaded 10volts 470uF 8x11.5 20% 3.5LS
2 $0.26 $0.52
2 Shipped Jun 30, 2016 41306822

Mouser #: 647-UHV0J331MED
Mfr. #: UHV0J331MED
Desc.: Aluminum Electrolytic Capacitors - Leaded Aluminum Electrolytic Capacitors - Leaded 6.3volts 330uF 105c 6.3x11 2.5LS
2 $0.39 $0.78
2 Shipped Jun 30, 2016 41306822

Mouser #: 647-UPW0J221MED
Mfr. #: UPW0J221MED
Desc.: Aluminum Electrolytic Capacitors - Leaded Aluminum Electrolytic Capacitors - Leaded 6.3volts 220uF 6.3x11 20% 2.5LS
3 $0.23 $0.69
3 Shipped Jun 30, 2016 41306822

Mouser #: 667-EEA-GA1C470B
Mfr. #: EEA-GA1C470B
Desc.: Aluminum Electrolytic Capacitors - Leaded Aluminum Electrolytic Capacitors - Leaded 16volts 47uF 6.3X7mm L/S=5.0mm Ammo Crmp
2 $0.43 $0.86
2 Shipped Jun 30, 2016 41306822

Mouser #: 647-USR1H220MDD
Mfr. #: USR1H220MDD
Desc.: Aluminum Electrolytic Capacitors - Leaded Aluminum Electrolytic Capacitors - Leaded 50volts 22uF 6.3x7 20% 2.5LS
4 $0.26 $1.04
4 Shipped Jun 30, 2016 41306822

Mouser #: 647-USV1C100MFD
Mfr. #: USV1C100MFD
Desc.: Aluminum Electrolytic Capacitors - Leaded Aluminum Electrolytic Capacitors - Leaded 16volts 10uF
7 $0.41 $2.87
7 Shipped Jun 30, 2016 41306822

Mouser #: 647-USV1V100MFD1TE
Mfr. #: USV1V100MFD1TE
Desc.: Aluminum Electrolytic Capacitors - Leaded Aluminum Electrolytic Capacitors - Leaded 10UF 35V 105c
2 $0.43 $0.86
2 Shipped Jun 30, 2016 41306822

Mouser #: 647-UPW2C4R7MPD
Mfr. #: UPW2C4R7MPD
Desc.: Aluminum Electrolytic Capacitors - Leaded Aluminum Electrolytic Capacitors - Leaded 160volts 4.7uF 8x11.5 20% 3.5LS
2 $0.34 $0.68
2 Shipped Jun 30, 2016 41306822

Mouser #: 667-ECE-A1EKA4R7
Mfr. #: ECE-A1EKA4R7
Desc.: Aluminum Electrolytic Capacitors - Leaded Aluminum Electrolytic Capacitors - Leaded 4.7UF 25V MINI ALUM ELECT (KA)
3 $0.20 $0.60
3 Shipped Jun 30, 2016 41306822

Mouser #: 647-UPW1HR47MDD
Mfr. #: UPW1HR47MDD
Desc.: Aluminum Electrolytic Capacitors - Leaded Aluminum Electrolytic Capacitors - Leaded 50volts 0.47uF 5x11 20% 2LS
3 $0.16 $0.48
3 Shipped Jun 30, 2016 41306822

Mouser #: 647-USV1HR47MFD
Mfr. #: USV1HR47MFD
Desc.: Aluminum Electrolytic Capacitors - Leaded Aluminum Electrolytic Capacitors - Leaded 50volts 0.47uF 4x7 20% 1.5LS
2 $0.41 $0.82
2 Shipped Jun 30, 2016 41306822

Mouser #: 647-UTT1H010MDD
Mfr. #: UTT1H010MDD
Desc.: Aluminum Electrolytic Capacitors - Leaded Aluminum Electrolytic Capacitors - Leaded 50volts 1uF Mini Low Impedance
3 $0.41 $1.23
3 Shipped Jun 30, 2016 41306822
Select All
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Old 03-20-2017, 08:54 PM
Shibby Shibby is offline
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Thanks so much dtvmcdonald....You guys are seriously awesome. I did plan to run the boards through an ultrasonic bath though i have never done that before. will need to look up a good bath solution and technique for this.
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Old 03-20-2017, 09:35 PM
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So heres some pictures for the curious. What do you guys think? As you can see at the end there the bromine has taken over the internal support pieces and they have become extremely brittle. Nearly every little clip broke during disassembly and i have been slowly reassembling it with cyanoacrylate (super glue) but the good stuff with the activator. The two pieces you see left there on the table i have yet to find the home for.











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Old 03-22-2017, 12:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shibby View Post
Thanks so much for chiming in. Now that I look close there are def a few that have gone. One is leaking out of the side and 2 others are leaking out of the bottom and you can see where a bit of corrosion has set in on the underside of the board where the legs come through. So do you replace literally every cap? even the tiny ones without the scored tops? better yet do you happen to have a list of all the required caps needed for the job? An old digikey shopping list would be super helpful. Would certainly be willing to throw a few bucks your way for the effort.

Also now that you say that about the power adapter the blown fuse may be my own fault. It did come with the original power adapter but when i plugged it in at the thrift store to test the tv i got nothing. when i grabbed the adapter i accidentally dropped it on the floor so i thought it might be possible that i accidentally broke it. I grabbed another adapter of the same spec and tried again but nothing. That may be where it popped because before i distinctly remember hearing a noise come through the speaker when i initially plugged it in but after trying the other adapter i got nothing.

Ill post pictures here in a bit.
I've seen much worse looking boards. You will need to replace all of the 105 degree caps (including the small ones). I've never seen a problem with any of the 85 degree caps. The parts aren't that expensive, but I don't have a list. Most of the values are ones I keep in stock for other projects. I usually use the Nichicon PW line from Mouser, but any name brand 105 degree cap will do.

Hopefully the fuse is the only damage. There is a diode to protect against reverse polarity.

To clean the boards, I use an ultrasonic cleaner. Ordinary dish detergent is fine followed by a rinse with alcohol. Be sure to remove the flyback first since you don't want water to get inside. I like to clean the boards before removing the old caps because there is so much electrolyte on the boards it makes desoldering difficult.

With any luck it will work with new caps, but often there are one or two open traces. It's also not uncommon to see a few SMD resistors that are badly corroded. The worst problem I've seen was the failure of the power supply control IC, but that was only on one set. Amazingly, I was able to find plentiful replacement ICs on AliExpress.
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Old 03-27-2017, 11:36 PM
WISCOJIM WISCOJIM is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shibby View Post
What do you think its value might be at this point?
Here's a clue: www.ebay.com/itm/302255854452

.
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Old 07-31-2017, 11:30 AM
Shibby Shibby is offline
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So I have finally gotten around to trying to fix this thing. A beautiful thrift store Sansui 661 got in the way among other things. So I went over every board and documented each and every through hole capacitor and sent the order out through Digikey. I have gotten the vast majority of the caps replaced except for some of the super tiny ones under the shields. I will get to these soon. The larger board that is directly connected to the tube seemed to have the most damage. Several leaky caps with electrolytic goo all over the board. the corrosive damage from this was seemingly minimal be there were certainly a few components that had suffered a bit of damage to their solder joints. I was able to get these joints cleaned up and fixed but i can say it certainly wasn't easy. I had never had the opportunity to work on a damaged bard such as this before so it was certainly a learning experience. I checked continuity between each solder joint and the next component down the line and everything looked good.

After getting the majority of the new caps in and fixing some ugly joints (it appears that someone has been in here before) I went to reassemble her on the bench to see if I would get anything out of her. In a temporary laps of brain power I stacked the main board connected to the tube (D1?) on top of the shield of the power board forgetting to place the cardboard spacer in between to prevent shorts. well I plugged her in and of course got nothing. Until about 10 seconds later the smoke came. I quickly unplugged the power supply and tried to see where it was coming from. After plugging it in a couple more times I was able to see that the smoke was coming from the B734 transistor on D1.

I pulled everything back apart and had a closer look. All three legs were burnt and she had a hole blown right through her. I have to admit it was kind of cool . I went ahead and desoldered the transistor and sure enough there is a short between the collector and emitter pins. I had a look at everything else on the board and it doesn't seem as if anything else had suffered any damage. Heres hoping. I have a couple new transistors on the way from ebay so hopefully I'll be able to have another go here soon. I did try powering everything up again with the cardboard spacer in place and as expected did not get any smoke so I am certain that I am to blame for this and not a component on the board.

Anyway in the mean time I would like to look into running the boards through the ultrasonic (something I should have done first). Does anybody have any advice for disconnecting the D1 board from the tube? Also other than the flyback is it ok to leaving everything else on? Cables, Plugs, pots, chips and soldered in daughter boards?
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Old 07-31-2017, 01:20 PM
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I do recommend using an ultrasonic cleaner. Removing just the flyback is sufficient.

What problem are you having with disconnecting the D1 board? The HV connector just unhooks in the usual way, and everything else is plug in connectors.
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