Show us your vintage B&W sets!

[Jeffhs]

Originally Posted by gadget73

Side note, in spite of the "UHF" badge on the front, it doesn't actually have UHF. There is a tag on the inside that says the set was designed to allow the install of the optional UHF converter.

This is totally as-found condition, the controls aren't even cleaned. The pics are bad because its my cell phone, the memory card in the digicam seems to have died or something. The vertical hold is a bit unstable, but I'm hoping once I get some DeOxit ordered and applied to the controls that will stabilize. The linearity control on the back seems to do nothing, and the height is wonky, maybe dirty controls or something else. I have no real experience working on TV sets so this will be a learning experience for me. This thing has been apart before. There is a service tag inside, but its quite old. Looks like at least one replacement tube, and I think someone has been into the HV cage. Theres a missing screw there. 4 of the screws on the back were also gone, and the tuner chassis (its a 2 chassis design, one side appears to be tuner, the other side video) seems like its not bolted down firmly. Wiggling the tuner knob moved the whole thing around. Apparently whatever tech fooled with it wasn't very good about putting all the parts back inside.

That "UHF" badge probably covers a hole into which the optional UHF tuner fits. Many TVs of 1950s-early sixties (before 1964) vintage were set up this way so that if/when UHF stations came to the area, the set could be retrofitted with a UHF tuner, which was available as optional equipment; however, there were special cases as I mention below. The all-channel reception law went into effect April 30, 1964; it mandated that all televisions manufactured for sale in the U.S. must be equipped with UHF as well as VHF tuners, regardless of whether or not the area in which the set was sold and/or used had UHF stations.

Note also that some areas of the country had only UHF television stations even as far back as the 1950s, so sets marketed in these cities were factory-equipped with UHF tuners; one area I know of right off the bat is Youngstown, Ohio, near Pittsburgh and about 60 miles (more or less) from Cleveland. Youngstown has had only UHF stations from the beginning, so all new TVs in that area were set up for all-channel reception; those sets that were not so equipped (owned by people who had moved to the area from a VHF-only locality, for example) used external UHF converters which converted UHF television signals to one of two VHF channels, either 5 or 6 (some very early converters used channels 2 or 3, but as a general rule the downconversion was either to 5 or 6). To receive UHF stations from the converter, the television's VHF tuner was set on whichever station was not used for local broadcasting and all UHF channel tuning was done at the converter. These converters worked as well as the state of the art at the time allowed, but the early units with tubes (for example, the Blonder-Tongue BTU-99 from the '50s, which was one of the first UHF converters marketed for home use) were known for drifting and other problems attendant to tube-type RF tuning systems.

UHF channel tuning was critical on all converters because the units tuned in channels exactly like a radio, with a continuously variable tuning control. This was changed in the mid-'70s when a new law, requiring that UHF tuning shall be comparable to VHF, went into effect; the industry responded by building TVs with detented UHF tuners as well as VHF. This was later updated when electronic varactor tuners became available; most sets of '80s vintage had these tuners, which covered the standard channels 2 through 13 and, for UHF, there were six positions (actually six independent tuners) after channel 13 (marked U1 through U6) which were independently tunable to the UHF stations in the viewer's local area. This tuning system was eventually superseded by quartz-synthesized all-channel electronic tuners, the type now used in all TVs manufactured since about 1990.

I find it difficult to believe that the linearity control on your Philco TV isn't doing anything. If it were in fact defective, you would have no vertical sweep (a bright white horizontal line across the center of the CRT screen). My best guess is the control is probably incredibly dirty, so much so that the wiper contact inside the control is not contacting the carbon resistance element. I'd try cleaning the control first, before doing anything drastic; in fact, it wouldn't be a bad idea as well to clean the other controls while you are at it. It sounds to me like this TV has been sitting in someone's basement, attic, garage, etc., unused, for decades; under these conditions the controls can become very noisy and intermittent, not to mention fixed capacitors/resistors changing value and deteriorating over time. Many times old B&W TVs were simply relegated to an attic or basement and forgotten when the owner got a new color set; this may well be what happened to your Philco.

The picture on your set doesn't look too bad. There is some vertical foldover at the bottom the picture as shown in one of the thumbnails, but that may well be due to a weak vertical oscillator or output tube or misadjusted vertical height/linearity controls. Again, I'd readjust the controls and replace the tube before going into the vertical circuits. Remember, in tube-type equipment, defective tubes are responsible for some eighty percent of all problems.

One more thing. I'd fasten down those two loose chassis before you lose a connection on them, or worse. I seriously doubt that any real television service person would leave things so loose (after having had the chassis out of the cabinet for repairs) as the tuner and video chassis seem to be in that Philco. Sounds to me as if the set's former owner may have been trying to repair the set and lost or misplaced the screws that hold the tuner, etc. in place. Hardly the mark of any professional television technician, but then again some people will do anything just to get the TV working again--or at least to get some sort of picture back, even if it is terribly flawed. I have rescued old TVs from the trash that basically worked, but the pictures looked awful. However, with a bit of adjustment and perhaps (more often than not, actually) a new tube or two, these sets worked every bit as well as they probably did when they were new. My pride and joy in the late '60s was a 23" Zenith b&w console TV I had rescued from a curb in my old neighborhood. The tubes (all but the HV rectifier and CRT) were missing, but once I replaced the tubes the set worked like a champ, and continued to work flawlessly (that razor-sharp Zenith picture and the best sound I have ever heard in any TV before or certainly since then) until I moved in the early '70s. I had to get rid of that set then, and it was difficult, as I had put so much work into it (new tubes, adjustments, etc.) and it was working so well.

[gadget73]

JeffHS: I figured it was more of a case of dirty controls rather than any serious circuit problem. I guess I wasn't clear on that, it just seems that adjusting it has little result on the picture. It kind of shakes and jumps as its rotated but thats about the extent of it. Messing with the height control is very erratic, and definitely indicates a dirty control. Volume and tone controls are very scratchy, tuner needs a lot of fiddling with to make it lock channels, and the horiz hold is real touchy too. I was going to dose all the controls with a quality contact cleaner before going any further. Probably I'll do the tube sockets too. The picture tube actually wouldn't light when I first powered it, the heater wasn't working. I wiggled the connector on the back and it came to life, so I'm figuring this thing is loaded with bad connections. Nothing I wouldn't expect out of a piece of 54 year old electronics.

Also no doubt it sat around for years. I think probably not in a basement though, it was way too clean on the outside. The finish on the doors seems to indicate some sun damage. I bet it was in the house, probably being used as a plant stand or something.

I think you're right about the UHF badge covering a hole. There is a space inside right between the tuner and video chassis that lines up with the badge. Makes sense the UHF tuner would go there, since it really can't go anywhere else.

Regarding the external UHF converters, I found one and used it on an old Motrola tabletop I had for many years. I dont recall what happened to that TV but the converter I got for like $2 at a flea market. It didn't work so well but I grabbed it more because it was an interesting piece than anything else. I don't remember the brand or anything. I don't have it or the TV I used it on either. Probably both consigned to the dump for "i need more room in here" reasons.

[bgadow]

I recently sold a '54 Philco that had the UHF installed. The tuner face fit right where that plate goes and was a slide-rule dial. It worked quite well-kinda hated to part with it, but can't keep every TV that comes my way.

[gadget73]

I did some simple work that vastly improved the quality of the picture: I removed the glass panel from the front and cleaned the face of the CRT and washed the glass. 50 years of nicotine tar down the drain. Amazingly the halo effect around the picture is gone now. I also managed to fix what I thought was sun fried plastic on the knobs, again more baked-on tar. Its sort of wierd, the set looked reasonably clean to start with, but I guess it didn't really get much cleaning beyond dusting the cabinet off.

Related question, does anyone know a good way to get all the tar and nastiness out of the wood? I wiped the doors down with some windex and it kept turning the cleaning cloth nasty brown. I'd like to get all that old tar out so I can apply some polish or something to the wood, but I don't want to use anything that will destroy the finish. Its not perfect but I'd like to preserve it as-is till I feel brave enough to try restoring it sometime down the road.

[Tony V]

Try Murphy's oil soap as it has worked for me in cases like this. Just make sure the cloth isnt too wet and follow up quickly with a dry cloth behind it.
-Tony

[Ronce67]

This set is in daily use while my main set is being restored. I didn't get this as one unit, I had to piece it together from visits to different thrift stores. All told, the whole outfit cost about $30.oo---- The set was priced at $15.00---but--- it was half-off day! The stand was 5.oo and the Atari 2600 with case was 15.oo

[jshorva65]

Jamie bought this Stromberg-Carlson TV-12 combo set at the first ETF Convention (2007) we attended together. This was her first Vintage TV score, but she didn't officially become a Collector until she bought her SECOND set. Two or more sets qualifies as a Collection, doesn't it? Now, her collection consists of this Stromberg-Carlson, a late-fifties Zenith "bug eyes" portable (eBay score), a Crosley wooden tabletop (2009 ETF Convention score), and a set that's going to be a birthday gift from me next week (she hasn't joined AK yet that I'm aware of, but not revealing what set I got her until after her birthday just in case). Anyway, here's the Stromberg-Carlson on display as an attention-magnet to lure shoppers into a booth she ran earlier this year selling baking supplies and cooking-related art (mainly small ceramic sculptures and jewelry) at a local farmers' market as a side project for her catering business.

The first photo is of the TV chassis undergoing bench-testing at one of the "progress check" points during Restoration.

Next is a screenshot at another "progress check" point. That one was taken while I was setting up test gear for the RF/IF alignment that it needed due to a dial-tracking issue with the Inductuner. Those Mallory Inductuners are great when they work, but can take a while to get working just right when something goes wrong. Anyway, it took a while, but I got it repaired, aligned, and back to proper tracking all across the dial. Incidentally, part of the tracking issue was that the end-stop inside the Inductuner had gotten bent out of place due to someone having tried to "force" the knob past the stop at some point long ago. I would imagine it was an attempt to use brute mechanical force to get the dial to track correctly without opening up the tuner assembly to look for leaky capacitors and/or off-spec resistors. Basically, I ended up replacing almost every resistor inside the tuner and most of the ceramic and mica capacitors.

Next up, here's another shot featuring the AM/SW radio dial and the record changer. The changer was tricky at times due to the first cartridge we ordered for it being a dud right out of the box and the fact that some previous "repair" person had assembled some of the linkages backwards (namely, the Off/On/Rej switch linkage, which was obviously mis-aligned since it was colliding with the Speed linkage). Once I got the control linkages to work and a working cartridge installed, there was another challenge because of a missing setscrew in one of the changer linkages, this one affecting the setdown point of the stylus. Since it was an odd "pointed" screw, it took a while to track the proper replacement part down.

The final picture of the series is of the set on display at Jamie's former baking supplies booth, next to the "ultra comfortable" wingback chair she scored at an antique mall. There's actually a funny story behind that. Before she took an interest in Vintage TV, she sat in that chair to take a break at the antiques place while I searched for more Radio and TV stuff. Not sure if she was bored or tired. Anyway, she liked the chair so much that she ended up buying that chair by the end of the day.

About a year after I initially restored the TV, it developed a vertical sync problem. At first, I suspected that one of the original electrolytics that had re-formed nicely during the initial Restoration work had finally given up (would have been the second such failure in something like 8 years since I started keeping track). Instead, my 99% (probably closer to 99.5% by now) success rate at achieving long-term reliability on electrolytics where ESR and leakage check out OK after re-forming remains intact. It turned out that the electrolytics were OK and that the primary (the sync winding) of the vertical oscillator transformer had gone open. Sams doesn't list any substitutes for it and the same transformer is also used in most Dumont sets from the RA-103 "doghouse" model up to the RA-108 (Dumont p/n 20D490-1, 20004142, and 20003931 are listed in Sams, a different one of these three in each Dumont model's folder). Although each Dumont model lists a different p/n in Sams (with no crosses listed in Sams) they all cross to the same three subs (Merit A-3001, Stancor A-8124, and Thordarson 26A01) per parts catalog listings. Another tip is that ONLY if the transformer fails with the primary (red/blue lead pair) as the open winding, a temporary fix while waiting for the replacement part to arrive is to tack a 22K/2W resistor across the open winding and couple the sync pulses from the junction of the blue lead (output of the integrating network) to the oscillator grid with a 0.0015uF capacitor. That will stop the "rollin', rollin', rollin'" symptom on your Dumont set until the new transformer arrives.

[AnalogDigit]

Originally Posted by jshorva65

To answer that question, I'm selling it because vintage tv is now more than a hobby. I used to work for a leading long-distance phone company which is now in the news for the worst accounting scandal in US history. Vintage electronics is my job now.

Some products and services we offer are:

1 - We buy, restore and sell vintage radio, tv, hi-fi and guitar amplifiers.

2 - We design and build tube guitar and hi-fi amplifiers.

3 - We restore vintage electronics for those collectors who already have the sets but lack the time or expertise to do their own restorations.

When I acquire an especially rare set (there were fewer Crosley 9-408's made than RCA 630TS's) I hold onto them for private display in my home.

One of my goals is to increase the number of surviving antique sets that are also working antique sets.

This has been something I've wanted to turn from a hobby into a career since I was 12 years old. The ultimate goal of my business is to bring America's consumer electronics industry back to its former glory in the same way as we all love to bring pictures bact to the screens of classic tv sets that have sat dormant for decades. I hope to market a 100% American-made tv set within 10 years. Please visit my Web site and have a lok around. The URL is http://home.earthlink.net/~amptechsys. Here's my AboutMe page on eBay, also http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/jshorva65/

Thank you for the reply.

John

John, I wish you luck in your goal. I think if this country started making consumer good that were high quality, we can beat anyone in the world.

[jshorva65]

Originally Posted by AnalogDigit

John, I wish you luck in your goal. I think if this country started making consumer good that were high quality, we can beat anyone in the world.

Thank you for the words of encouragement and for reminding me of some of the long-term goals I set back when Jan and I first ventured into bringing that childhood dream of mine closer to reality, goals that I still have but now realize will probably take longer to achieve than I had anticipated back then. I was really surprised when Jamie took up collecting Vintage TV sets herself, but inspiring first-time owners of Vintage TV sets toward becoming Collectors seems to be happening more often for me than I originally expected. Tomorrow, Jamie and I will be making a "road trip" to Pennsylvania to see the latest "scores" by a client who is now a friend and one of two part-time subcontract vendors I hope to eventually find myself in a position of offering full-time careers. All in due time, though. For now, Jamie and I will be taking that short road trip with my new Assistant Technician to visit my Cabinetry Expert to see the two Sylvania Halo-Lite sets he scored this week, a rare 50s Sylvania 21" tabletop Color set (an actual Sylvania set, as opposed to a licensed clone of an RCA color chassis), and some test gear and parts inventory he bought out from retired repairmen and engineers.

[miniman82]

Here's a crappy vid of my Philco 51-T1634, showing it's first pictures after recap. I found it on the side of the road, someone had thrown it out. Picture quality is better now, I added a composite input for video.
http://myweb.msoe.edu/williamstm/Philco_Tetris2.wmv

[jshorva65]

Originally Posted by miniman82

Here's a crappy vid of my Philco 51-T1634, showing it's first pictures after recap. I found it on the side of the road, someone had thrown it out. Picture quality is better now, I added a composite input for video.
http://myweb.msoe.edu/williamstm/Philco_Tetris2.wmv

Nice set! Here's a crummy cellphone-captured vid featuring a friend's Philco 50T1403 that I restored for him recently. I just scored a 50T1403 for my own collection this week and delegated its Restoration to my Technical Assistant while I'm busy tending to the planning of a "road trip" to score a truckload of Zenith color roundie sets and as much of the assorted parts and test gear offered by the seller of the Zenith sets as my budget and/or the capacity of the truck will permit. I'll post pics of my own Philco 50T1403 here when it's ready, and I'll post pics of the Zenith roundie sets in the Color thread after picking them up.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYVYmUXHQis

Incidentally, the set that would have been my first Vintage TV was a Philco 50T1403. Since I was only about 12 years old and my parents considered my buying it at the garage sale where it was offered for $5 "too dangerous" I had to pass it up. Funny how things come full-circle. The 50T1403 that I just bought was from a contractor who noticed my Vintage TV collection while doing an estimate for some maintenance at my house and contacted me about a week later to let me know he had bought an old TV set to offer for sale to me. Totally unexpected, just like that first garage sale find more than 30 years ago.

[miniman82]

Thanks! The cabinet is in realy good condition. I only wish I could find a color Philco to go with it, that would just make my year!

[jeyurkon]

Originally Posted by jshorva65

...About a year after I initially restored the TV, it developed a vertical sync problem. At first, I suspected that one of the original electrolytics that had re-formed nicely during the initial Restoration work had finally given up (would have been the second such failure in something like 8 years since I started keeping track). Instead, my 99% (probably closer to 99.5% by now) success rate at achieving long-term reliability on electrolytics where ESR and leakage check out OK after re-forming remains intact...

I'm glad that I'm not the only one who thinks it's possible to trust vintage electrolytics if the ESR and leakage test ok.

John

[jshorva65]

Here are the latest additions to the Restored B/W categories of my collection and of Jamie's. The Philco 50T1403 on the left was the one I scored from the contractor I mentioned before who noticed my collection and workstations while compiling an Estimate for some work to be done on the house. The Hotpoint 14S202 on the right was the Birthday gift for Jamie that I had mentioned before. She had seen an overpriced and non-working "hot pink" Hotpoint on eBay and mentioned that she liked the look of the set. With that in mind, I located a working example at a more reasonable price and completed a "preventive maintenance" recap on it.

Since the DTV Conversion has reached my area, there were no off-air signals to tune in. The nearest signal distribution jack from the DTV Converter and DVD player hookup is on the other side of the room. I've got the signal routing set up to facilitate multi-set displays in only one room so far, with just a single connection in other rooms. Expansion for multi-set displays in multiple rooms will be completed later this year.

As of today, Jamie's collection consists of three Restored B/W, one Unrestored B/W. My collection consists of ten Restored B/W sets, eleven Unrestored B/W, three In-Progress B/W Restorations, three Restored Color sets, three Unrestored Color sets, and one In-Progress Color Restoration.

[jshorva65]

Just scored a Silvertone 110.700 on eBay last week and awaiting its arrival. That model was the first 50s B/W set I had ever restored, about 25 years ago. I've been looking for another example of that model ever since the original one's 12LP4 was destroyed by my younger brother (either accidentally or deliberately, never could tell with him, but the cracked neck was nowhere near as obvious as the BB holes in the screen of a '65 Zenith B/W portable years earlier or the smashed dial glass on a '37 Delco R-1116 table radio before that). I guess it was "bad for his image" as a wannabe high-school football star to have a brother who collected "antique" anything? Who knows? That set is nearly identical to the Pathe 12-2, and a relatively easy chassis to recap due to the 'lytics being tubular axial units mounted under the chassis.