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  #31  
Old 04-12-2012, 11:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by julianburke View Post
Look at that picture of the person in the hospital bed, that is a speaker unit only--NO TV!!
I had not looked at the Motorola link until I saw your comments. Indeed, why did anyone think that was a TV screen on the device in the picture? It is an all-in-one "control plus nurse-call device", exactly as hospitals have since used for decades, if I remember from the last time I was in a hospital room (visiting or staying, quite a while ago in either case). Such a device (without a TV screen) was newsworthy in 1966 in any case; the first time I stayed in a hospital after birth was for pneumonia in 1968. My mother rented a TV for me from the in-house company, that was wheeled into the room.
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  #32  
Old 04-13-2012, 12:41 AM
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Originally Posted by jr_tech View Post
That's what I thought at first, but I remember seeing formed metal speaker grills (with very tiny punched holes) on vintage Motorola 2-way radios that had a similar appearance. Notice the odd contour and shape of the "screen"... I now think I am seeing a speaker/microphone, not a CRT face.

jr
Point well taken. Probably not a TV. That pointed screen threw me also. Why have that shape if a viewing screen.
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  #33  
Old 04-13-2012, 12:52 AM
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Originally Posted by ChrisW6ATV View Post
I had not looked at the Motorola link until I saw your comments. Indeed, why did anyone think that was a TV screen on the device in the picture? It is an all-in-one "control plus nurse-call device", exactly as hospitals have since used for decades, if I remember from the last time I was in a hospital room (visiting or staying, quite a while ago in either case). Such a device (without a TV screen) was newsworthy in 1966 in any case; the first time I stayed in a hospital after birth was for pneumonia in 1968. My mother rented a TV for me from the in-house company, that was wheeled into the room.
My explaniation, I'm 66, been lucky only in a hospital once and that was in 1957. I remember a control unit to call nurses with a built in radio in that hospital. When I saw this photo and description, for 1966, what's so special unless it had a TV. That would make it news worthy.
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Last edited by etype2; 04-13-2012 at 12:57 AM.
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  #34  
Old 04-13-2012, 07:03 AM
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In 1966 Motorola was trying to develop a rectangular screen which they did--a 23EGP22 by the National Video Corporation which we all know what it turned out to be. Their resources were focused there and certainly not on a flat screen. The guy I worked with was a Motorola field rep then and flat panels/screens were never discussed or even heard of except as a small blurb in Popular Electronics but only as an artists' concept.

My mistake here, Motorola began the rectangular tube movement in around 1963-4 through the National Video Corporation who was about bankrupt and took on the task of developing a rectangular CRT. They were plagued with cheap labor and some labor issues and their cleanliness was below par and their best 23EGP22 was "soft" and not very crisp. A "flat" panel was not even in their picture in this time frame nor did their finances allow engineering such an item for what their goal was.
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  #35  
Old 04-13-2012, 08:23 AM
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Weren't rectangular sets with 23E[ww]GP22s being sold by Motorola in 1964? The only rectangular color innovation (if you can call it that) of 1966 that I can think of is the Portacolor.
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  #36  
Old 04-13-2012, 11:39 AM
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The hospital thing is an integrated nurse call, TV remote control and remote TV speaker (to reduce disturbance to one's roommate) - absolutely NOT a TV display. Whoever wrote the headline very mistakenly based it on a glance at appearance without close inspection or reading the PR text that would have accompanied this photo.
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  #37  
Old 04-13-2012, 12:52 PM
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Originally Posted by old_tv_nut View Post
The hospital thing is an integrated nurse call, TV remote control and remote TV speaker (to reduce disturbance to one's roommate) - absolutely NOT a TV display. Whoever wrote the headline very mistakenly based it on a glance at appearance without close inspection or reading the PR text that would have accompanied this photo.
I wrote the comment for my website. The photo and text were copied as found from Motorola's 1966 annual report. The top portion very much looks like a display screen in that photo. When JR Tech mentioned it was probably a perforated speaker grille, the light bulb went off and I agree, it probably is not a TV because of the pointed shape of that grille. If you re-read the text, it says "all in one unit" and "patients can operate a combination radio-TV". Since a nurse call device with radio have been around for decades, even back to 1957 when I was last in a hospital, I thought Motorola had come up with a new innovation. Also, Motorola did develop a tiny 1 inch working prototype TV in the same year, 1966. This and the fact that in 1966 the Intertel Corporation developed a working two sided flat 6 inch color CRT supported my belief. See the previous page for two photos of that working prototype. Also in 1966, Sir Ian Sinclair demonstrated their 1 1/2 inch Micro TV. It seems 1966 was a banner year for tiny televisions. So yes, very possibly in 1961 a working miniature TV could have been possible behind the scene because 5 years later we have at least three working prototypes and in 1970 the Panasonic TR-001 1 1/2 inch TV was introduced.

See photo of Motorola 1966 working prototype 1 inch TV: http://www.taschenfernseher.de/doku/motorola1966.jpg
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  #38  
Old 04-13-2012, 02:13 PM
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The FIRST really, REALLY small color set was the Sony KV-4000/4001 from 1980....And then the 1.5 Panasonic CT-101, from '84. Now, Panasonic DID have the Mica 1 in 1969, that l'il 1.5" set...But that was a LONG way from '61...They could have benefitted from the space race & all the miniaturisation of components by then.
All the sets that Sandy references are color, so what is the Mica 1? Is it a color set - I never heard of it - or is he referring to the TR-001 B&W set?
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  #39  
Old 04-13-2012, 02:39 PM
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Motorola did develop a tiny 1 inch working prototype TV in the same year, 1966. This and the fact that in 1966 the Intertel Corporation developed a working two sided flat 6 inch color CRT supported my belief. See the previous page for two photos of that working prototype. Also in 1966, Sir Ian Sinclair demonstrated their 1 1/2 inch Micro TV. It seems 1966 was a banner year for tiny televisions. So yes, very possibly in 1961 a working miniature TV could have been possible behind the scene because 5 years later we have at least three working prototypes and in 1970 the Panasonic TR-001 1 1/2 inch TV was introduced.

See photo of Motorola 1966 working prototype 1 inch TV: http://www.taschenfernseher.de/doku/motorola1966.jpg
FWIW, my take on these demonstrations...

1. I believe the 1966 Motorola prototype existed...a talented Engineer with the skill of a watchmaker could have built something like that. About the same time frame, an engineer that I knew built a tiny battery powered oscilloscope that worked, using a 3/4 inch diameter electrostatic CRT.

2. I believe the 1966 Sinclair demo, again a conventional electrostatic deflection monochrome crt and fairly conventional circuitry. A real product followed shortly.

3. Of course the 1970 monochrome Panasonic was a real product and even contained an IC to reduce the amount of discrete circuitry, as well as a conventional design magnetic deflection CRT.

4. At that time, all of the above would have been fairly simple exercises compared to making a flat CRT for a tiny TV set, and color would add extreme complexity to the design. I believe the 1966 Intertel set "pictured" on magazine covers was nothing more than a mock-up.

5. Perhaps in the mid 80s, Sanyo came close to introducing a beam index "lollipop" CRT color set, but I think by that time sets with color LCDs close to becoming a reality...it was simply too little / too late for that product.

Just my 2 cents,
jr

Last edited by jr_tech; 04-13-2012 at 02:55 PM. Reason: wording change
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  #40  
Old 04-13-2012, 03:10 PM
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RCA had what it referred to as "TruFlat" color TVs in the late 1980s or early nineties. The screens of these sets may have been flat, but the sets were still NTSC analog. I wonder whether these TruFlat sets had special or custom-made CRTs (which I seriously doubt), or if the flat screen was part of a projection system in which the image from a small color tube was projected onto the screen to create the illusion of a flat picture.
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  #41  
Old 04-13-2012, 03:39 PM
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Yeah, the 1969-70 Panasonic Mica-1 set was B/W. Sorry about that, Chief...
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  #42  
Old 04-13-2012, 06:04 PM
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[QUOTE I believe the 1966 Intertel set "pictured" on magazine covers was nothing more than a mock-up.

The 1966 Intertel set was indeed a working prototype. In the Feb. 1966 issue of Popular Mechanics magazine there was a 5 page write up about it. The opening paragraph by the reporter: "FLAT TV PICTURE TUBES ARE REALLY HERE. There are both color and black-and-white versions. I know, I've seen them in action. I've held them in my hands."

This photo is of an actual image on the screen: http://www.visions4.net/journal/time...wordpress-525/

The tube is a flat tube very similar in looks to the Sanyo "lollypop" CRT. In the article you can see design sketches and working images on the tube.

To further the information, the 1961 RCA flat screen shown in the EBAY press photo auction was shown on the cover of the May, 1963 Mechanix Illustrated magazine. Possibly RCA was still tinkering with the design behind the scenes.

To further fuel the thought, an RCA engineer, George Hilmeir and his team invented and patented the first working LCD displays. They started work in secret from 1962 and announced to the world in a press conference in 1968, the development of the first LCD panels. Unfortunately, RCA never capitalized on their LCD patents, perhaps not to compete with their successful Color CRT division. Possibly RCA could have been thinking with this 1961-1963 mock up to use the new LCD panels they invented.

Here is a Photo of George Hilmeir standing outside of the Princeton RCA laboratories displaying an LCD imaging device. This photo was taken ironically, 1966 according to the David Sarnoff library: http://www.visions4.net/journal/new/...525-wordpress/
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Last edited by etype2; 04-13-2012 at 08:28 PM. Reason: Typo
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  #43  
Old 04-13-2012, 06:57 PM
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Question

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This photo is of an actual image on the screen:
Huh? You can't be serious.
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  #44  
Old 04-13-2012, 07:29 PM
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Huh? You can't be serious.
The full article: http://www.taschenfernseher.de/doku/pm-0266.pdf
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  #45  
Old 04-13-2012, 07:35 PM
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Originally Posted by etype2 View Post
The 1966 Intertel set was indeed a working prototype. In the Feb. 1966 issue of Popular Mechanics magazine there was a 5 page write up about it. The opening paragraph by the reporter: "FLAT TV PICTURE TUBES ARE REALLY HERE. There are both color and black-and-white versions. I know, I've seen them in action. I've held them in my hands."

This photo is of an actual image on the screen: http://www.visions4.net/journal/time...wordpress-525/
I am very skeptical ... Popular magazines such as PM and MI were saying that flat screen "hang on the wall" TVs are "coming soon" & "just around the corner" since the Aiken and Gabor patents were filed in the 50s. Work did continue on both designs until about 1970, but no practical production devices resulted. No doubt, designers could have been working with such devices and speculating about and showing mock-ups of potential applications, but I think that the cover picture from PM was a total "hoax", for several reasons:

1. The circuitry required to operate a color flat tube in 1966 IMHO, could not possibly fit inside that box.

2. The "beach scene" lighting likely would have washed out any CRT display.

3. If the display was transparent and viewable from both sides, as indicated, wouldn't the viewers arm be viewable in the background of the image.

4. The display picture simply looks "too good" ... if Intertel had something that good in 1966, what happened to them?

again, just my 2 cents worth,
jr

Last edited by jr_tech; 04-13-2012 at 07:48 PM.
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