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  #46  
Old 04-13-2012, 07:55 PM
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Originally Posted by jr_tech View Post
I am very skeptical ... Popular magazines such as PM and MI were saying that flat screen "hang on the wall" TVs are "coming soon" & "just around the corner" since the Aiken and Gabor patents were filed in the 50s. Work did continue on both designs until about 1970, but no practical production devices resulted. No doubt, designers could have been working with such devices and speculating about and showing mock-ups of potential applications, but I think that the cover picture from PM was a total "hoax", for several reasons:

1. The circuitry required to operate a color flat tube in 1966 IMHO, could not possibly fit inside that box.

2. The "beach scene" lighting likely would have washed out any CRT display.

3. If the display was transparent and viewable from both sides, as indicated, wouldn't the viewers arm be viewable in the background of the image.

4. The display picture simply looks "too good" ... if Intertel had something that good in 1966, what happened to them?

again, just my 2 cents worth,
jr
I agree, the cover photo not real, just to show the potential. Did you read the full article in my last post?
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  #47  
Old 04-13-2012, 08:03 PM
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See photo of Motorola 1966 working prototype 1 inch TV: http://www.taschenfernseher.de/doku/motorola1966.jpg
Interesting. Do you know the magazine (title, date) where that article was published?

The article mentions a paper by Mr. Tanner that was read at a 1966 IEEE convention. The IEEE website has many old archived documents. It would be fun to read that guy's paper, if available.

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  #48  
Old 04-13-2012, 08:17 PM
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Interesting. Do you know the magazine (title, date) where that article was published?

The article mentions a paper by Mr. Tanner that was read at a 1966 IEEE convention. The IEEE website has many old archived documents. It would be fun to read that guy's paper, if available.

Phil Nelson
The article about the 1 1/8 inch Motorola TV was from the Columbus Dispatch in 1966. I don't know the day or month. I saw this on the history of television website. If your a subscriber to IEEE, would be interested to read his paper.
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  #49  
Old 04-13-2012, 08:20 PM
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RCA had what it referred to as "TruFlat" color TVs in the late 1980s or early nineties. The screens of these sets may have been flat, but the sets were still NTSC analog. I wonder whether these TruFlat sets had special or custom-made CRTs (which I seriously doubt), or if the flat screen was part of a projection system in which the image from a small color tube was projected onto the screen to create the illusion of a flat picture.
"Truflat" was normal CRT construction, except that the screen was very close to flat (though not perfectly flat like the Zenith FTM monitor tubes).
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  #50  
Old 04-13-2012, 08:30 PM
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See photo of working 6 inch flat color CRT. http://www.visions4.net/journal/time...wordpress-525/
Nope, not a picture of a WORKING flat screen set. May be a photo of a flat screen set that worked, but the picture is definitely a paste-up, unless someone can tell me that they had a CRT that could make black areas despite the light coming in. Or was that "view from either side" article a note on a two sided CRT that would need to have the back covered by a black shield to actually use it anywhere but a darkroom?

Last edited by old_tv_nut; 04-13-2012 at 08:34 PM.
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  #51  
Old 04-13-2012, 08:33 PM
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I agree, the cover photo not real, just to show the potential. Did you read the full article in my last post?
Just did... looks as if they had some working but crude lab prototypes of a design similar to the Sony "lollipop" CRTs as well as a very cute mock-up of a portable set.
The limited color (2 color) tube might have been workable, but might not have been good enough to generate much interest and investment capitol for production start up costs.

interesting,
jr
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  #52  
Old 04-13-2012, 08:47 PM
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Originally Posted by etype2 View Post
The article about the 1 1/8 inch Motorola TV was from the Columbus Dispatch in 1966. I don't know the day or month. I saw this on the history of television website. If your a subscriber to IEEE, would be interested to read his paper.
DeLoss Tanner died (cerebral hemhorrage, IIRC) just before I got out of school and joined Motorola. I inherited a different project of his, a transistorized black and white TV that was an experiment in cost reducing any way conceivable. The set was breadboarded on a tinplated steel sheet. My first job was to buy a car battery and charger to run it. The IF transistors had no emitter degeneration and were current-biased by the AGC circuit. The CRT had been built from a cut-down glass milk bottle, with the bottom of the bottle as the screen. You could read the dairy's logo, stamped in the bottle bottom, in the picture; and it was, well, "milky" looking (no aluminization). The set basically worked, but there was no hope of holding tolerances for production. I got it running, and it went into storage or maybe got trashed, I don't recall; but at least it then was a documented experiment.
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  #53  
Old 04-13-2012, 08:51 PM
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Originally Posted by jr_tech View Post
Just did... looks as if they had some working but crude lab prototypes of a design similar to the Sony "lollipop" CRTs as well as a very cute mock-up of a portable set.
The limited color (2 color) tube might have been workable, but might not have been good enough to generate much interest and investment capitol for production start up costs.

interesting,
jr
Viewable from both sides makes sense for a 2-color CRT with two phosphors on opposite sides of a glass plate - but the picture would be awfully washed out if you actually left both sides open.
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  #54  
Old 04-13-2012, 09:01 PM
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Originally Posted by old_tv_nut View Post
Nope, not a picture of a WORKING flat screen set. May be a photo of a flat screen set that worked, but the picture is definitely a paste-up, unless someone can tell me that they had a CRT that could make black areas despite the light coming in. Or was that "view from either side" article a note on a two sided CRT that would need to have the back covered by a black shield to actually use it anywhere but a darkroom?
The full article which can be read at post #44 states that the reporter saw working prototypes in action, both color and black & white. The reporter commented that the flesh tones were the best he had seen.
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  #55  
Old 04-13-2012, 10:43 PM
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The full article which can be read at post #44 states that the reporter saw working prototypes in action, both color and black & white. The reporter commented that the flesh tones were the best he had seen.
These statements I can believe. The flesh hue is determined by the color of the red/orange phosphor. It is desaturated by some amount of complementary cyan, but its hue cannot change.

As the author states, purple is not possible - but I have no idea what he means by "reddish blue" if it's not purple (which it couldn't be) - maybe he means it was slightly variable from slightly blue to slightly red.

Here are some shots of Cliff Benham's 2-color field sequential set (left smaller screen) vs. ordinary 3-color (right screen), from the 2009 Early Television convention.


P5010070 by old_tv_nut, on Flickr

P5010072 by old_tv_nut, on Flickr

P5010114 by old_tv_nut, on Flickr

P5010115 by old_tv_nut, on Flickr

Finally, 3-color bars on left, 2-color on right:

P5010099 by old_tv_nut, on Flickr
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  #56  
Old 04-14-2012, 12:22 AM
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Originally Posted by old_tv_nut View Post
These statements I can believe. The flesh hue is determined by the color of the red/orange phosphor. It is desaturated by some amount of complementary cyan, but its hue cannot change.

As the author states, purple is not possible - but I have no idea what he means by "reddish blue" if it's not purple (which it couldn't be) - maybe he means it was slightly variable from slightly blue to slightly red.

Here are some shots of Cliff Benham's 2-color field sequential set (left smaller screen) vs. ordinary 3-color (right screen), from the 2009 Early Television convention.


P5010070 by old_tv_nut, on Flickr

P5010072 by old_tv_nut, on Flickr

P5010114 by old_tv_nut, on Flickr

P5010115 by old_tv_nut, on Flickr

Finally, 3-color bars on left, 2-color on right:

P5010099 by old_tv_nut, on Flickr
Wow! Thank you for posting these photos.
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  #57  
Old 04-14-2012, 02:13 PM
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Originally Posted by old_tv_nut View Post
These statements I can believe. The flesh hue is determined by the color of the red/orange phosphor. It is desaturated by some amount of complementary cyan, but its hue cannot change.

As the author states, purple is not possible - but I have no idea what he means by "reddish blue" if it's not purple (which it couldn't be) - maybe he means it was slightly variable from slightly blue to slightly red.

Here are some shots of Cliff Benham's 2-color field sequential set (left smaller screen) vs. ordinary 3-color (right screen), from the 2009 Early Television convention.
Very cool! thanks for posting. Two color looks better than I expected, but still might have been pretty hard to sell, even in the mid 60s. I looks as if the colors shown are basically "I axis" only, which could have simplified the circuitry somewhat. Was a 2 color system used in some countries, in the "early days" ?

jr
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  #58  
Old 04-14-2012, 07:46 PM
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I've now sold the bridge a total of nine times. Wanna buy it?
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  #59  
Old 04-14-2012, 09:29 PM
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If that flat screen two color CRT actually worked then it mat have been possible to make a three color tube by adding another layer to it.
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  #60  
Old 04-15-2012, 11:50 PM
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If that flat screen two color CRT actually worked then it mat have been possible to make a three color tube by adding another layer to it.
I don't see how. The glass that carries the phosphors has only two sides, and the idea is to have two beams approaching the opposite sides through vacuum.
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