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  #16  
Old 04-11-2012, 11:21 AM
julianburke julianburke is offline
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No doubt a prop as if this was a working unit, RCA would have marketed it if it looked that good as seen in the picture. As stated earlier, I'm sure it was some form of propaganda for the stock holders. "Look what we're doing now!!!" If that was a "REAL" working unit which I doubt and no one else knows about either, we would have already known about it through RCA's history of color television.

Wait a moment here--how did they get all of those tubes in that unit??

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Last edited by julianburke; 04-13-2012 at 02:21 PM.
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  #17  
Old 04-11-2012, 11:38 AM
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Originally Posted by julianburke View Post
No doubt a prop as if this was a working unit, RCA would have marketed it if it looked that good as seen in the picture. As stated earlier, I'm sure it was some form of propaganda for the stock holders. "Look what we're doing!!!"

Wait a moment here--how did they get all of those tubes in that unit??
I'm sure the one posted was a prop, but I don't doubt that they had working prototypes that were never sold due to cost, or production reasons.

It would be interesting to have seen what this was used for:

http://www.earlytelevision.org/rca_flat_crt.html
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  #18  
Old 04-11-2012, 10:11 PM
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Remember that in 1961 they were still into 21" round tubes with no rectangulars in sight. I doubt seriously their technology at that time could have produced the tube that ETF has at that time. It looks like something from the later '70's to me if that early. Remember SONY had that flat CRT in their "Watchmans" only in B&W in the '80's some 25 years later. COLOR flat tubes in 1961?? I don't think so as they were not that advanced. B&W I may hardly believe that, but not color. There was too much geometry in that tube to understand in 1961.

I would like to know what they were doing then if I am wrong here. There were no IC's back then and only IF they used discreet SS parts available then, there is no way in heck they could put them all in that hand held TV!! Perhaps there was a huge backpack to go along with it! Even so, CRT design was not that advanced for color back then. OK guys, prove me wrong here!!

BTW, just where would the shadow mask have been???

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Old 04-11-2012, 11:34 PM
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I didn't mean to imply that the ETF CRT was from 1961, just that they surely had some interesting prototypes which never saw the light of day.
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  #20  
Old 04-11-2012, 11:49 PM
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Originally Posted by julianburke View Post
Remember that in 1961 they were still into 21" round tubes with no rectangulars in sight. I doubt seriously their technology at that time could have produced the tube that ETF has at that time. It looks like something from the later '70's to me if that early.
I agree, The "TV set" shown in 1961 was likely pretty much an empty box mock-up to demonstrate a concept. The lollipop CRT at ETF looks like a later (late 70s I think is a good guess) engineering special that likely could produce an image. Careful examination of the CRT at ETF should reveal if it was Monochrome or color. I would guess monochrome.

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Originally Posted by julianburke View Post
I would like to know what they were doing then if I am wrong here. There were no IC's back then and only IF they used discreet SS parts available then, there is no way in heck they could put them all in that hand held TV!! Perhaps there was a huge backpack to go along with it! Even so, CRT design was not that advanced for color back then. OK guys, prove me wrong here!!
Agree... If the ETF prototype CRT was color (doubtful IMHO), It would have taken a ton of electronics to produce proper geometry and convergence, but for engineering work, a rack full of special driver circuits could have been used.

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Originally Posted by julianburke View Post
BTW, where would the shadow mask have been???
Good question... and how would convergence of the three beams been obtained?... an almost impossible task, IMHO. Beam index technology would seem to be more practical.
By the mid 80s, A lollipop style color CRT using beam index design may perhaps have made into an actual product... some discussion of the Sanyo Prototype/Product about halfway through this thread:

http://www.videokarma.org/showthread.php?t=248210

jr
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  #21  
Old 04-12-2012, 02:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by julianburke View Post
Remember that in 1961 they were still into 21" round tubes with no rectangulars in sight. I doubt seriously their technology at that time could have produced the tube that ETF has at that time. It looks like something from the later '70's to me if that early. Remember SONY had that flat CRT in their "Watchmans" only in B&W in the '80's some 25 years later. COLOR flat tubes in 1961?? I don't think so as they were not that advanced. B&W I may hardly believe that, but not color. There was too much geometry in that tube to understand in 1961.

I would like to know what they were doing then if I am wrong here. There were no IC's back then and only IF they used discreet SS parts available then, there is no way in heck they could put them all in that hand held TV!! Perhaps there was a huge backpack to go along with it! Even so, CRT design was not that advanced for color back then. OK guys, prove me wrong here!!

BTW, where would the shadow mask have been???
I have a 1966 Motorola annual report. Motorola developed a flat screen CRT for hospital use in 1966. Interestingly, some 16 years before the famous Sony FD 210 Watchman flat CRT.

See photo and text from report: http://www.visions4.net/journal/time...creen-tv-1966/
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  #22  
Old 04-12-2012, 03:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by julianburke View Post
Remember that in 1961 they were still into 21" round tubes with no rectangulars in sight. I doubt seriously their technology at that time could have produced the tube that ETF has at that time. It looks like something from the later '70's to me if that early. Remember SONY had that flat CRT in their "Watchmans" only in B&W in the '80's some 25 years later. COLOR flat tubes in 1961?? I don't think so as they were not that advanced. B&W I may hardly believe that, but not color. There was too much geometry in that tube to understand in 1961.

I would like to know what they were doing then if I am wrong here. There were no IC's back then and only IF they used discreet SS parts available then, there is no way in heck they could put them all in that hand held TV!! Perhaps there was a huge backpack to go along with it! Even so, CRT design was not that advanced for color back then. OK guys, prove me wrong here!!

BTW, where would the shadow mask have been???
All I can say is we didn't know about the SR71 blackbird for a long time and companies back then tended to keep new stuff on the back burner and release it slowly. Maybe someone who worked at Rca during that time would be able to shed some light on this.
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  #23  
Old 04-12-2012, 03:05 PM
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I don't think ANYBODY ever developed a flat COLOR CRT.Time ran out on 'em. And I doubt now one will ever be developed. I REALLY do wish those dreadful flat-screen thingies had NEVER been developed...CRTs 4Evah...(grin)
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  #24  
Old 04-12-2012, 04:17 PM
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I have a 1966 Motorola annual report. Motorola developed a flat screen CRT for hospital use in 1966. Interestingly, some 16 years before the famous Sony FD 210 Watchman flat CRT.

See photo and text from report: http://www.visions4.net/journal/time...creen-tv-1966/
Very interesting... Did Motorola actually claim to have developed a flat CRT for the unit? Do you have any details?

A few things come to mind:
!. Since the unit is on a long cable, the complex driving circuitry could have been located apart from the display, making for a compact unit, even in the era before complicated ICs, so perhaps it would have been possible.

2. Perhaps the body of the unit could have contained a small monochrome CRT and a mirror/lens system similar to the Philco Safari. Again could have been possible with remote electronics.

3. The caption says "talk to a nurse and operate a combination radio-television set"...Which may be an indication that this was just a "nurse call button" combined with a fancy radio/tv remote control... but it sure looks like a display screen.

Scratching my head over this one, thanks for posting it!
jr
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  #25  
Old 04-12-2012, 04:56 PM
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IF they used discreet SS parts available then, there is no way in heck they could put them all in that hand held TV!!
Yes, it's interesting to compare a Sony 8-301W, a B/W transistor TV that actually shipped in 1961. I suppose it's about as small as you could make a practical TV from available components at the time -- quite a bit bigger and heavier than the "palm sized" mockup in the RCA photo!







Philco's Safari had a different form factor and used a much smaller CRT, but it was a real brick, as well.

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  #26  
Old 04-12-2012, 05:40 PM
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The FIRST really, REALLY small color set was the Sony KV-4000/4001 from 1980....And then the 1.5 Panasonic CT-101, from '84. Now, Panasonic DID have the Mica 1 in 1969, that l'il 1.5" set...But that was a LONG way from '61...They could have benefitted from the space race & all the miniaturisation of components by then.
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  #27  
Old 04-12-2012, 06:55 PM
julianburke julianburke is offline
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Alright guys, hold it a moment here, you have been fooled or didn't look at the picture well enough for that 1966 Motorola hospital flat screen. Also the title may be bogus as well. Look at that picture of the person in the hospital bed, that is a speaker unit only--NO TV!! Look at the unit behind the bed which shows that. Flat screen TV?? Where?? It isn't shown funny thing so the title could have been typed by anyone unknowingly. Looks like a plain ordinary article touting the hand held nurse call with TV controls in it that have been used for decades and is still in use today.

Assuming it "was" a TV in itself, it would not be appropriate for many hospital patients and would have been cost prohibitive.
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  #28  
Old 04-12-2012, 10:12 PM
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Originally Posted by jr_tech View Post
Very interesting... Did Motorola actually claim to have developed a flat CRT for the unit? Do you have any details?

A few things come to mind:
!. Since the unit is on a long cable, the complex driving circuitry could have been located apart from the display, making for a compact unit, even in the era before complicated ICs, so perhaps it would have been possible.

2. Perhaps the body of the unit could have contained a small monochrome CRT and a mirror/lens system similar to the Philco Safari. Again could have been possible with remote electronics.

3. The caption says "talk to a nurse and operate a combination radio-television set"...Which may be an indication that this was just a "nurse call button" combined with a fancy radio/tv remote control... but it sure looks like a display screen.

Scratching my head over this one, thanks for posting it!
jr
That's what I thought as well, just a control unit, but that sure looks like a display screen about 3.5 inches. In 1966 the Intertel Corporation in Los Angles demonstrated a working two sided flat 6 inch color TV. You could actually view it on both sides. So the advanced circuitry was available in 1966 to create the prototype flat color CRT. This makes me believe the hospital TV is real.

See photo of working 6 inch flat color CRT. http://www.visions4.net/journal/time...wordpress-525/
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  #29  
Old 04-12-2012, 10:20 PM
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Originally Posted by julianburke View Post
Alright guys, you have been fooled here or didn't look at the picture well enough for that 1966 Motorola hospital flat screen. Also the title may be bogus as well. Look at that picture of the person in the hospital bed, that is a speaker unit only--NO TV!! Look at the unit behind the bed which shows that. Flat screen TV?? Where?? Not shown funny thing so the title could have been typed by anyone unknowingly. Looks like a plain ordinary article touting the hand held nurse call with TV controls in it.
The key words in the Motorola description: "all in one unit" and "patients ... can operate a combination radio-TV ... "

One more photo of the working 6 inch two sided flat color CRT prototype in 1966: http://www.visions4.net/journal/time...wordpress-525/
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  #30  
Old 04-12-2012, 10:56 PM
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That's what I thought as well, just a control unit, but that sure looks like a display screen about 3.5 inches.
That's what I thought at first, but I remember seeing formed metal speaker grills (with very tiny punched holes) on vintage Motorola 2-way radios that had a similar appearance. Notice the odd contour and shape of the "screen"... I now think I am seeing a speaker/microphone, not a CRT face.

jr

Last edited by jr_tech; 04-12-2012 at 11:00 PM.
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