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  #1  
Old 06-18-2017, 07:09 PM
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Boobtubeman Boobtubeman is offline
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Philco 16/16b

Picked this up at a yard sale Saturday...And it was HEAVY...

Tubes all tested well, chassis label says 16. whats left of the tube chart says 16b...

Hoping the voice coil is okay as the cone is complete doo doo...

what are your experiences with overhauling this model??

The riders seems a bit hard to follow, is there a better schematic??

Lend me your input...

SR
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  #2  
Old 06-18-2017, 09:31 PM
ZenithDude88 ZenithDude88 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boobtubeman View Post
Picked this up at a yard sale Saturday...And it was HEAVY...

Tubes all tested well, chassis label says 16. whats left of the tube chart says 16b...

Hoping the voice coil is okay as the cone is complete doo doo...

what are your experiences with overhauling this model??

The riders seems a bit hard to follow, is there a better schematic??

Lend me your input...

SR
Your Philco is from the late 1920s between 1927-1929 and with as crispy looking as your speaker is you'll likely either need to source a new cone and replace the old cone assembly yourself (which will be a pain seeing as this is an early paper cone speaker) or try and source a new speaker (even harder because they don't show up that often on ebay). I don't have any experience personally with overhauling pre-WWII radios but from what I've read and heard they can be kind of tricky because sometimes the capacitors for the tuner assembly were potted in a bakelite box that was packed with tar (Philco was especially notorious for this)and this can be quite tricky to handle.

With as bad of condition as this unit is in I would of passed on it because of the fact that this unit will require a lot more work and effort to refurbish than its worth.
I had to do this recently when a local antique mall had a late 1920s RCA tabletop radio for sale in their shop for $15 which I thought that was a bargain until I saw the condition of the cabinet and the guts, the cabinet had been water damaged severely to the point that the veneer was peeling off the cabinet and the guts where severely damaged by mice and deteriorated wire insulation among other things which I had not the time nor expertise to deal with so I ended up passing on it.

Although if you have more experience in woodworking and speaker repair and have the patience to replace old deteriorated wire then you did fine in saving this unit.
But since I've only been working on antique radios for about 10 years as a side hobby and I know nothing about how to repair veneer work on a radio cabinet and I don't have the patience it
takes to remove and replace hundreds of feet worth of deteriorated/mice chewed wires in a radio I would never even attempt to restore a radio like this.

Just my 2 cents worth.
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  #3  
Old 06-18-2017, 09:49 PM
Gregb Gregb is offline
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The Philco 16/16B is a great radio that will provide superb reception once properly restored. They are a little more work because of the bakelite blocks but its not difficult to restore just maybe a little time consuming. Worth the effort without a doubt.

Gregb
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  #4  
Old 06-18-2017, 10:15 PM
ZenithDude88 ZenithDude88 is offline
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Originally Posted by Gregb View Post
The Philco 16/16B is a great radio that will provide superb reception once properly restored. They are a little more work because of the bakelite blocks but its not difficult to restore just maybe a little time consuming. Worth the effort without a doubt.

Gregb
I agree that these early cathedral radios are excellent performers when properly restored (and great DX'ers as well with the right amount of wire extended out the window) but as I was saying that for the experienced radio restorer this is a great unit but for people who are just getting into radio restoration these might not be a very good unit to attempt to restore as a beginner (not familar with his expertise level which is why I said what I did as a general statement).
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  #5  
Old 06-18-2017, 11:50 PM
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Boobtubeman Boobtubeman is offline
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Rest easy guys, NOT my FIRST RADIO...

Did a 37 Delco R1128 that was molested and half assed and got it going..

Looks like i have the 16-121 variety because of the #80 rectifier... The cabinet is in pretty good shape (no peeling) As long as parts are clearly marked, i should be okay.. Hoping the speaker damage is limited to the cone (center still has its flex) Perhaps i can sacrifice a speaker and glue a new cone onto the old setup..

I admit the bakelite blocks have me concerned, havent dismantled it yet, how many blocks am i gonna encounter in this unit? anyone have pics? I see a large rectangular can screwed on the back of the chassis, i presume this one is "tar potted"... Sure doesnt look like an e-cap. Perhaps its the filter condenser bank?

My challenge might be the riders copy on NOSTALGIA, kinda hard to make out some of the notes in the drawings, but im trying...

Thanks for the input and keep em coming, Much appreciated

SR

Last edited by Boobtubeman; 06-19-2017 at 12:53 AM.
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Old 06-19-2017, 03:26 AM
Titan1a Titan1a is offline
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1933 11 tube all-wave radio in 5 bands. One of Philco's largest table radios. Includes Type One shadow tuning meter. Has interstation quieting on early models. Will need new tuning cap grommets. Very sensitive! Vernier dual knob gear tuning. Expensive when new and when properly restored worth up to $700. A keeper!
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  #7  
Old 06-19-2017, 10:35 AM
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You definitely have a keeper there when it is restored. I just restored one about 2 months ago. There's something like 14 Bakelite block caps under the chassis but they are simple to rebuild. For the most part you can leave them connected to the circuit and just loosen them by removing the mounting screw. Heat up the body on all sides except the tar side to soften the tar. I have a tool I made with a piece of brazing rod that just slips through the eyelet rivets that hold the terminals. Once the tar is soft enough I poke the tool through the center eyelet and push the guts out the back. Finish cleaning up the inside and the terminals and re-install new caps.

The large filter can is easy to gut also. Probably easier than the Bakelite blocks. The other 2 electrolytics I cut open, gutted, and stuffed. One of them is a wet type electrolytic and mine was still wet.

The worst part on that radio will be replacing the tuning capacitor grommets and the rubber drives for the tuning control. I came across a YouTube video series someone did on restoring a 16B and they show how they handled the capacitor grommets. For the drives I cut a rubber o-ring and re-glued it around the drive hubs after removing the old hardened rubber.
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  #8  
Old 06-19-2017, 11:33 AM
dieseljeep dieseljeep is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZenithDude88 View Post
Your Philco is from the late 1920s between 1927-1929 and with as crispy looking as your speaker is you'll likely either need to source a new cone and replace the old cone assembly yourself (which will be a pain seeing as this is an early paper cone speaker) or try and source a new speaker (even harder because they don't show up that often on ebay). I don't have any experience personally with overhauling pre-WWII radios but from what I've read and heard they can be kind of tricky because sometimes the capacitors for the tuner assembly were potted in a bakelite box that was packed with tar (Philco was especially notorious for this)and this can be quite tricky to handle.

With as bad of condition as this unit is in I would of passed on it because of the fact that this unit will require a lot more work and effort to refurbish than its worth.
I had to do this recently when a local antique mall had a late 1920s RCA tabletop radio for sale in their shop for $15 which I thought that was a bargain until I saw the condition of the cabinet and the guts, the cabinet had been water damaged severely to the point that the veneer was peeling off the cabinet and the guts where severely damaged by mice and deteriorated wire insulation among other things which I had not the time nor expertise to deal with so I ended up passing on it.

Although if you have more experience in woodworking and speaker repair and have the patience to replace old deteriorated wire then you did fine in saving this unit.
But since I've only been working on antique radios for about 10 years as a side hobby and I know nothing about how to repair veneer work on a radio cabinet and I don't have the patience it
takes to remove and replace hundreds of feet worth of deteriorated/mice chewed wires in a radio I would never even attempt to restore a radio like this.

Just my 2 cents worth.
Your 2 cents worth isn't worth quite that!
The Philco 16 series is a 1935 or '36 model and a very impressive set.
A very high performance 11 tube chassis.
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  #9  
Old 06-19-2017, 11:36 AM
ZenithDude88 ZenithDude88 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boobtubeman View Post
Rest easy guys, NOT my FIRST RADIO...

Did a 37 Delco R1128 that was molested and half assed and got it going..

Looks like i have the 16-121 variety because of the #80 rectifier... The cabinet is in pretty good shape (no peeling) As long as parts are clearly marked, i should be okay.. Hoping the speaker damage is limited to the cone (center still has its flex) Perhaps i can sacrifice a speaker and glue a new cone onto the old setup..

I admit the bakelite blocks have me concerned, havent dismantled it yet, how many blocks am i gonna encounter in this unit? anyone have pics? I see a large rectangular can screwed on the back of the chassis, i presume this one is "tar potted"... Sure doesnt look like an e-cap. Perhaps its the filter condenser bank?

My challenge might be the riders copy on NOSTALGIA, kinda hard to make out some of the notes in the drawings, but im trying...

Thanks for the input and keep em coming, Much appreciated

SR
I had for a while a Delco R1128 as well but mine was in such bad shape that i didn't end up getting mine going sadly enough. I ended up using it for parts (salvaged the tubes outs of it).
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  #10  
Old 06-19-2017, 11:55 AM
WISCOJIM WISCOJIM is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZenithDude88 View Post
With as bad of condition as this unit is in I would of passed on it because of the fact that this unit will require a lot more work and effort to refurbish than its worth.

Just my 2 cents worth.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dieseljeep View Post
Your 2 cents worth isn't worth quite that!
The Philco 16 series is a 1935 or '36 model and a very impressive set.
A very high performance 11 tube chassis.
I agree Dave, that was a very dim evaluation of a high quality set that may need relatively easy work as the cabinet appears as though it may be in good condition which is often the hardest thing to fix. Done several 16's myself, with a little patience and good work habits, they are not that difficult to do. And seeing how the owner already has the set, there is no reason not to use this set with the Bakelite blocks as a great learning experience.

.
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Old 06-19-2017, 12:06 PM
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Electronic M Electronic M is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dieseljeep View Post
Your 2 cents worth isn't worth quite that!
The Philco 16 series is a 1935 or '36 model and a very impressive set.
A very high performance 11 tube chassis.
+1

Hundreds of feet of wire in a table radio?...Lol come on, seriously?

Those block caps are easy...With the right screw driver I can chip the guts out without heat in under a minute.



Most block cap era Philcos I only use the schematic to determine the pin-out of the ant and osc coils*. Just change the lytics, re-stuff the block caps using one of the internet references to determine their contents/pinout and if the ant and osc coils are good the chassis should work. Often the single layer ant and or osc coils are open (2 of 3 60 chassis I've serviced, and 2 of 2 80 chassis were open)...Often the break is near an end so deleting the corroded turn or two and reconnecting the end will fix it, but I've had some where the whole winding was full of opens....Those I just count the turns, remove the old and rewind the same number of turns with Radio Shack phono pickup wire (always works like a charm).
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  #12  
Old 06-19-2017, 06:29 PM
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Boobtubeman Boobtubeman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZenithDude88 View Post
I had for a while a Delco R1128 as well but mine was in such bad shape that i didn't end up getting mine going sadly enough. I ended up using it for parts (salvaged the tubes outs of it).
You dont by chance have the speaker still? i have one unit that one was destroyed in transit..

SR
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Old 06-19-2017, 07:51 PM
ZenithDude88 ZenithDude88 is offline
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You dont by chance have the speaker still? i have one unit that one was destroyed in transit..

SR
Sadly no, I don't have the speaker, the speaker on mine ended up getting trashed when something fell on it, because at the time I was living with my parents and I had put the speaker and the guts of the radio in my closet in my bedroom and something fell off the top shelf in my closet and put a huge hole in the speaker (which was part of the reason why I scrapped out the radio because at the time I didn't know how to repair speakers and I didn't realize you could repair them) I do have the tubes from it though yet if you need any tubes, and I even have the tube shields from it, including the tuning eye tube shield.
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Old 06-19-2017, 08:03 PM
ZenithDude88 ZenithDude88 is offline
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+1

Hundreds of feet of wire in a table radio?...Lol come on, seriously?

Those block caps are easy...With the right screw driver I can chip the guts out without heat in under a minute.



Most block cap era Philcos I only use the schematic to determine the pin-out of the ant and osc coils*. Just change the lytics, re-stuff the block caps using one of the internet references to determine their contents/pinout and if the ant and osc coils are good the chassis should work. Often the single layer ant and or osc coils are open (2 of 3 60 chassis I've serviced, and 2 of 2 80 chassis were open)...Often the break is near an end so deleting the corroded turn or two and reconnecting the end will fix it, but I've had some where the whole winding was full of opens....Those I just count the turns, remove the old and rewind the same number of turns with Radio Shack phono pickup wire (always works like a charm).
Well some of the old radios I've worked on seemed like they had hundreds of feet of wire in them, especially when you have to replace every single wire in the unit that was chewed up by mice or the rubber insulation inside the cloth outer insulation was crumbling and exposing wire.
Actually if you count all of the hair thin copper wire in the IF cans in these old radios then yes technically these radios do have hundreds of feet of wire in them, someone on here mentioned that one of the IF cans in one of these radios has as much as 1,000 feet of wire in a single IF Transformer winding and most of these old radios had as many as 5 IF Transformers in them (especially the higher end models).
So I'm not really that far off by saying hundreds of feet of wire in an old radio, yes I agree that the interconnect wires on the underside of the radio chassis maybe doesn't amount to 100' (but close though in some of the higher end models) but like I said when you count the wire used in IF coil windings and the power transformer, and the speaker's output transformer and voice coil, then yes the radios easily can have hundreds of feet of wire in them.
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Old 06-19-2017, 08:06 PM
WISCOJIM WISCOJIM is offline
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Good Grief!

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