1942 Philco Radio

[Captainclock]

Well Today i got the old Philco mentioned in my previous thread and its a model 42-380 and its got the notorious 6X5 Rectifier tube in it (which from what I read on here is the one that Zenith used on their radios from the same time period that were notorious for shorting out and taking out the power transformer) anyways its got 2 41 Output tubes (push-pull?) for its audio stage so I think this unit might of been a fairly high end unit when it was brand new (and probably still is a high end unit).

Any thoughts?

Also by the way I got for $25 instead of the original $30.

Pics to come later when I get a chance to look over the unit more carefully.

Also something i noticed in this radio is that the power is apparently turned on through one of the pushbuttons on the front instead of through the volume control because the volume control doesn't "click" when turned down all the way.

The Dial string going from the front of the tuning dial fly wheel to the tuning knob is broke so now I have to restring it, hopefully the tuning string on my Philco 46-1203 will work on this radio.

[dieseljeep]

Originally Posted by Captainclock

Well Today i got the old Philco mentioned in my previous thread and its a model 42-380 and its got the notorious 6X5 Rectifier tube in it (which from what I read on here is the one that Zenith used on their radios from the same time period that were notorious for shorting out and taking out the power transformer) anyways its got 2 41 Output tubes (push-pull?) for its audio stage so I think this unit might of been a fairly high end unit when it was brand new (and probably still is a high end unit).

Any thoughts?

Also by the way I got for $25 instead of the original $30.

Pics to come later when I get a chance to look over the unit more carefully.

Also something i noticed in this radio is that the power is apparently turned on through one of the pushbuttons on the front instead of through the volume control because the volume control doesn't "click" when turned down all the way.

The Dial string going from the front of the tuning dial fly wheel to the tuning knob is broke so now I have to restring it, hopefully the tuning string on my Philco 46-1203 will work on this radio.

Don't worry about the 6X5 tube, as long as it's the newer issue 6X5GT. They were less prone to shorting like the earlier ones.
Some of the Philco models of the same era used a #84 tube, which is the same type tube as the 6X5G tube, but uses a 5 pin UX type socket.
The on-off switch is the first push button on the left and was trouble prone.
The 41 output stage is Philco's answer to a push-pull output stage, without a phase inverter.

[Captainclock]

Originally Posted by dieseljeep

Don't worry about the 6X5 tube, as long as it's the newer issue 6X5GT. They were less prone to shorting like the earlier ones.
Some of the Philco models of the same era used a #84 tube, which is the same type tube as the 6X5G tube, but uses a 5 pin UX type socket.
The on-off switch is the first push button on the left and was trouble prone.
The 41 output stage is Philco's answer to a push-pull output stage, without a phase inverter.

I see. This thing does have a 6X5GT tube in it, I was also looking around in my tube substitution manuals and it showed an 0Z4G/GT tube was a compatible substitute for the 6X5GT tube, would there be any reason not to use an 0Z4 tube in this circuit?

Also I noticed that the Rider's Manual's tuning string diagram is kind of hard to read, is there anyway I can see how this dial cord is supposed to look so I can restring the dial string going from the tuning knob to the flywheel?

Also I noticed that the presets on this radio are electronic as opposed to being mechanical like on most radios, is there anything I need to look out for with these?

Another thing I noticed is that this radio had what appeared to be a rats nest on the bottom of it (but not sure how the rat could of gotten under there because there wasn't much room for one to get underneath, and the wires from the output transformer to the 41 tube sockets appear to be chewed on (the insulation was chewed through but the wire itself is still intact.) So how would one go about repairing the chewed wires?

So as far as the power button goes, was it supposed to turn on and off the radio by pushing the same button? Or was it supposed to be shut off by pushing two buttons together thus deactivating the power switch?

[dieseljeep]

Originally Posted by Captainclock

I see. This thing does have a 6X5GT tube in it, I was also looking around in my tube substitution manuals and it showed an 0Z4G/GT tube was a compatible substitute for the 6X5GT tube, would there be any reason not to use an 0Z4 tube in this circuit?

Also I noticed that the Rider's Manual's tuning string diagram is kind of hard to read, is there anyway I can see how this dial cord is supposed to look so I can restring the dial string going from the tuning knob to the flywheel?

Also I noticed that the presets on this radio are electronic as opposed to being mechanical like on most radios, is there anything I need to look out for with these?

Another thing I noticed is that this radio had what appeared to be a rats nest on the bottom of it (but not sure how the rat could of gotten under there because there wasn't much room for one to get underneath, and the wires from the output transformer to the 41 tube sockets appear to be chewed on (the insulation was chewed through but the wire itself is still intact.) So how would one go about repairing the chewed wires?

So as far as the power button goes, was it supposed to turn on and off the radio by pushing the same button? Or was it supposed to be shut off by pushing two buttons together thus deactivating the power switch?

It's probably a mouse. They claim, if the head can go through a hole, the rest of the body will.
Secondly, most radios of the era, the push button was always electronic. Very few had a mechanical arrangement, except the AA5 types and they always had to be fine tuned.
The power button is a push-push type. The same button, is supposed to turn it on and off. Very trouble prone.
Don't use an 0Z4. They're short-lived. There's nothing wrong with the newer 6X5's.

[Captainclock]

Originally Posted by dieseljeep

It's probably a mouse. They claim, if the head can go through a hole, the rest of the body will.
Secondly, most radios of the era, the push button was always electronic. Very few had a mechanical arrangement, except the AA5 types and they always had to be fine tuned.
The power button is a push-push type. The same button, is supposed to turn it on and off. Very trouble prone.
Don't use an 0Z4. They're short-lived. There's nothing wrong with the newer 6X5's.

well actually I have two 1940s vintage Silvertone Radios of which both have a mechanically operated preset pushbutton system (the push buttons actually physically push down on the tuner shaft which physically moves the dial by the force of your finger pushing the preset button) and these radios aren't AA5 designs they have power transformers in them.

Anyways how would I go about repairing the damaged wires that were chewed up by the mice? Like I said the only wires that appear to have any significant damage to them are the wires from the output transformer to the output tube sockets.
Could I just cut the wire off at where the damage ends on the wire and strip it back and reattach the wire to the respective terminals on the tube sockets? There is at least a half a foot of excess wire coming out of the transformer that is still undamaged that I could reroute and then reattach to their respective terminals on said tube sockets.

Also the chassis is absolutely filthy it is caked in a layer of dust about an inch thick and I would like to know how to go about cleaning it off without damaging anything.

Also the dial string going from the tuning knob shaft to the smaller pulley in the fron of the main tuner drive pulley was broken and I was looking through the Rider's Service manual for this radio and the restringing diagram is very hard to read (I can't tell what they're saying as far as how many time I need to go around the tuning knob shaft, or which way I need to go around the pulley when initially stringing the dial cord.) Do you have anyway I can restring the dial cord without having to use the the poorly drawn Rider's diagram?

[dieseljeep]

The term AA5, doesn't necessarily mean a transformerless design. It can mean any five tube superhet, using the same basic circuitry and tube functions.
WA2ISE's website has a well-written explanation of the term.
RE: The dial cord, the Rider's diagram is pretty clear, on the stringing arrangement. It shows, two turns around the tuning shaft. I found, a lot of times, you have to string it up and experiment to see how smooth it works.
The page on the 42-395 might be easier to read.

[Captainclock]

Originally Posted by dieseljeep

The term AA5, doesn't necessarily mean a transformerless design. It can mean any five tube superhet, using the same basic circuitry and tube functions.
WA2ISE's website has a well-written explanation of the term.
RE: The dial cord, the Rider's diagram is pretty clear, on the stringing arrangement. It shows, two turns around the tuning shaft. I found, a lot of times, you have to string it up and experiment to see how smooth it works.
The page on the 42-395 might be easier to read.

Actually I could barely tell if it was a 3 or a 2 or a 1 that was written in on that description for how to restring the tuning knob, and actually I tried restringing the pulley and tuning knob like the diagram said (I even used 2 turns around the tuning knob) and the tuning knob would just turn freely in between the string that was wrapped around it and it didn't even try to engage the tuning mechanism, also what I meant by the diagram for restrining the tuner on the rider's wasn't very clear about how it should be done is that they didn't indicate very clearly which way the string was supposed to go out of the pulley during the initial restringing process (getting the string out of the pulley and towards the smaller pulleys and then towards the tuning knob) I had it going out of the right side of the pulley and then towards the tuning knob and back but that must of not been right because that's where I had the issue with the tuning knob not wanting to move the tuning mechanism and just spinning freely between the string.

Also you didn't really answer my question concerning how I should approach going about repairing the chewed up wires from the output transformer.

UPDATE: I finally got the tuner restrung but the thing nearly kicked my butt in the process!

[dieseljeep]

Originally Posted by Captainclock

Actually I could barely tell if it was a 3 or a 2 or a 1 that was written in on that description for how to restring the tuning knob, and actually I tried restringing the pulley and tuning knob like the diagram said (I even used 2 turns around the tuning knob) and the tuning knob would just turn freely in between the string that was wrapped around it and it didn't even try to engage the tuning mechanism, also what I meant by the diagram for restrining the tuner on the rider's wasn't very clear about how it should be done is that they didn't indicate very clearly which way the string was supposed to go out of the pulley during the initial restringing process (getting the string out of the pulley and towards the smaller pulleys and then towards the tuning knob) I had it going out of the right side of the pulley and then towards the tuning knob and back but that must of not been right because that's where I had the issue with the tuning knob not wanting to move the tuning mechanism and just spinning freely between the string.

Also you didn't really answer my question concerning how I should approach going about repairing the chewed up wires from the output transformer.

UPDATE: I finally got the tuner restrung but the thing nearly kicked my butt in the process!

My butt has been seriously kicked by the same problem.
I meant to address the chewed up wire issue, but was in a hurry to get going this morning. If the leads are long enough, just cut off the damaged part and reconnect it to the socket terminal. If the lead is too short, use shrink sleeving or any kind of sleeving and reconnect the damaged lead. I've even used electrical tape.

[Captainclock]

Originally Posted by dieseljeep

My butt has been seriously kicked by the same problem.
I meant to address the chewed up wire issue, but was in a hurry to get going this morning. If the leads are long enough, just cut off the damaged part and reconnect it to the socket terminal. If the lead is too short, use shrink sleeving or any kind of sleeving and reconnect the damaged lead. I've even used electrical tape.

Well thankfully when Philco chose the output Transformer for this radio they chose one with extra long leads and so I was able to easily cut off the damaged part until there was just enough exposed wire from where the wire had been chewed up to solder the wire back onto the tube sockets. :-) I even had to repair one of the wires going into the chassis from the speaker plug but thankfully there was enough wire lead to work with and it was close enough in proximity to where it needed to connect at that I just snipped out the bad spot just enough to leave me some exposed wire to solder to the connection point and resoldered it and voila! its fixed. Now I just have to repair one of the antenna terminal wires which also got chewed up (which I might just use electrical tape on it because its a small enough section that was damaged that it would be really not worth replacing the wire), and then to replace the electrolytic capacitors and paper caps and reinstall the dial and I should be set to go with this radio.

So when I got this radio home I noticed that the bakelite dial bezel on the cabinet was cracked in several spots and was warped and also the brass strip for telling what each knob did was damaged (it somehow got a large kink in the middle of it) anyways is there anywhere I could source a new bezel for this radio for cheap?

[dieseljeep]

The plastic bezel on those Philco's always shrunk, cracked, crumbled and distorted as a result of an experiment of using, possibly a soy-based product.
Even todays plastics shrink a bit. I bought a higher-end AA6 Silvertone clock radio that has a metal trim piece that bellied out in the center. It's obvious that the cabinet shrunk. It won't lay flat anymore.

[Captainclock]

Originally Posted by dieseljeep

The plastic bezel on those Philco's always shrunk, cracked, crumbled and distorted as a result of an experiment of using, possibly a soy-based product.
Even todays plastics shrink a bit. I bought a higher-end AA6 Silvertone clock radio that has a metal trim piece that bellied out in the center. It's obvious that the cabinet shrunk. It won't lay flat anymore.

OK. Well I saw that Radio Daze had some reproduction Bezel pieces like what my radio takes but they want like $31 for it.

Also where would I get some call letter tabs for my Philco? Its missing all of its call letter tabs including the ones that labeled the buttons that turned the radio on and off and that switched the bands.

[Captainclock]

Ok couple of questions, 1). I had the tuner dial string restrung and functioning perfectly (the pointer went back and forth smootly across the dial with the knob) but then I accidently knocked the radio chassis onto the floor (none of the tubes were damaged thankfully as they were out of the chassis at the time) and after I picked the chassis up off the floor and put it back up onto my work bench I went to check everything out to make sure nothing was damaged and sure enough the tuning indicator doesn't want to move with the knob anymore (and the string is still intact and at the same tension it was when it worked prior to the chassis falling to the floor.) My question is what could of changed since the radio fell that would of made the tuning indicator quit moving with the tuning knob even though the tuning strings (including the newly installed drive string) were still intact?

2). The dial glass has two pieces of rubber for holding the dial glass in between the retention end caps and the one rubber piece is still pliable and in good shape wheraeas the other piece essentially turned to a piece of brittle plastic and anyways the rubber piece that turned to brittle plastic broke into several pieces and now I don't have anyway to hold the dial glass into place. Where might I find new pieces of rubber for holding the dial glass into place?

I would hate to of bought this radio and not even of been able to of gotten it going because of a piece of rubber for the dial glass is NLA and because of that the dial glass can't be reinstalled onto the radio and then the tuner can't be used anymore because of it being broken for some reason, that would of been a waste of $25 if this radio can't be repaired anymore...

[rca2000]

Originally Posted by Captainclock

I see. This thing does have a 6X5GT tube in it, I was also looking around in my tube substitution manuals and it showed an 0Z4G/GT tube was a compatible substitute for the 6X5GT tube, would there be any reason not to use an 0Z4 tube in this circuit?

Also I noticed that the Rider's Manual's tuning string diagram is kind of hard to read, is there anyway I can see how this dial cord is supposed to look so I can restring the dial string going from the tuning knob to the flywheel?

Also I noticed that the presets on this radio are electronic as opposed to being mechanical like on most radios, is there anything I need to look out for with these?

Another thing I noticed is that this radio had what appeared to be a rats nest on the bottom of it (but not sure how the rat could of gotten under there because there wasn't much room for one to get underneath, and the wires from the output transformer to the 41 tube sockets appear to be chewed on (the insulation was chewed through but the wire itself is still intact.) So how would one go about repairing the chewed wires?

So as far as the power button goes, was it supposed to turn on and off the radio by pushing the same button? Or was it supposed to be shut off by pushing two buttons together thus deactivating the power switch?

They DO find they way--don't they? Same thing happeed to ME...on a 39-55 MYSTERY DIAL radio. chassis WAS secure too. Between that...and the cabinet getting TOTALLY ruined by water...I had to scrap it.. But...I saved pretty much everything.

[Captainclock]

Originally Posted by rca2000

They DO find they way--don't they? Same thing happeed to ME...on a 39-55 MYSTERY DIAL radio. chassis WAS secure too. Between that...and the cabinet getting TOTALLY ruined by water...I had to scrap it.. But...I saved pretty much everything.

Yikes and those Mystery Remote Philcos are actually quite scarce compared to the unit I have...

The only problem with mine now is that I'm afraid that my $25 may have been wasted on this unit because after I had restrung the tuner dial string I ended up accidentally knocking the radio on the floor and now the radio dial pointer doesn't want to move anymore with the tuning knob and the dial strings are still in tact and everything, and on top of that one of the rubber supports for the dial glass had turned to brittle plastic and broke into several pieces and I don't know if I can find another one of those rubber dial glass supports anywhere in order to remount the dial glass to the chassis again, so now I'm afraid I may have to scrap this unit out which like I said would be a waste because I never even got to see if I could get it up and running or not...

[dieseljeep]

Originally Posted by Captainclock

Yikes and those Mystery Remote Philcos are actually quite scarce compared to the unit I have...

The only problem with mine now is that I'm afraid that my $25 may have been wasted on this unit because after I had restrung the tuner dial string I ended up accidentally knocking the radio on the floor and now the radio dial pointer doesn't want to move anymore with the tuning knob and the dial strings are still in tact and everything, and on top of that one of the rubber supports for the dial glass had turned to brittle plastic and broke into several pieces and I don't know if I can find another one of those rubber dial glass supports anywhere in order to remount the dial glass to the chassis again, so now I'm afraid I may have to scrap this unit out which like I said would be a waste because I never even got to see if I could get it up and running or not...

This sort of thing happens as often as not.
When I found the dial glass loose, I just used a couple layers of electrical tape to hold it tightly in the mounting clamps. When working on radios or anything this old, you have to improvise. Look at the people restoring old cars. That's even a bigger PITA than these radios and a lot more costly.
Regarding the dial pointer not moving smoothly, check to see if the frame, where the pointer rides on hasn't been bent, after the fall.
If you read the other entries on this forum, regarding the restorations of the sets, you'll find that a lot of patience has been taken to get the results that they expected!