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  #31  
Old 03-20-2014, 07:09 PM
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Well, who taught the Japanese about electronics and car manufacturing ?
It was the Americans.
Overtime, the Japanese just perfected what they were taught... I think.
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  #32  
Old 03-20-2014, 08:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandy G View Post
I dunno, man.... If a 12-yr-old boy like Moi could notice the drop in PERCEIVED quality, I'm SURE the Adults who actually BOUGHT STUFF could as well...And THEY could remember when ALL our stuff was made "Ship-Shape"...
You mean made out of iron?
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  #33  
Old 03-20-2014, 09:20 PM
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Originally Posted by KV-1926R View Post
You mean made out of iron?
Not necessarily... Just made better overall, than stuff made today.. I have a 1935 RCA AR-60, their TOTL SW set then. It was $495 that year when $650 would buy you a Ford V-8... It was designed to last virtually FOREVER, & if something broke, it was designed to be fixed. The ONLY stuff that's made anywhere CLOSE to those standards today would be a few commercial items, & certain military goods... I seriously doubt ANY consumer goods are made today to THAT sort of standard..
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  #34  
Old 03-20-2014, 10:48 PM
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There's no incentive to build quality: technology renders the new purchase obsolete soon after you finish paying for the item and the price point battle makes something that is priced above the crowd unsellable.
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  #35  
Old 03-20-2014, 11:29 PM
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Originally Posted by colorfixer View Post
There's no incentive to build quality: technology renders the new purchase obsolete soon after you finish paying for the item and the price point battle makes something that is priced above the crowd unsellable.
Depends on the mentality of the buyer. Some like me would rather have a product that solidly outlives the life span that I consider it useful to most people for (which is usually a ways past obsolete) and is not the cheapest then some piece of crap that dies or becomes barely usable before you even start to see decent benefit in upgrading to the latest feature set.
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  #36  
Old 03-21-2014, 08:55 AM
DaveWM DaveWM is offline
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I'm just frugal and like to keep things to fully amortize the price way past normal. Frankly obsolete is in the eye of the beholder as well. I am perfectly fine with old sets that make a good pic. Cheap junk that has to be replaced do to perceived obsolete things can waste a lot of money.
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  #37  
Old 03-21-2014, 11:19 AM
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I see a big ol' gap coming in technical history as none of today's junk sets will be around in the decades to come. Surface mount=not repairable.
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Originally Posted by Robb View Post
No way ! They wont come back in 1 peice !
Money comes and goes, but vintage things (in mint shape) arent that easy to find !
One word: implosion. If any production company wanted use of any of my sets, I would have to take it there myself and be able to keep an eye on it the whole time. Otherwise, no deal.

Last edited by Jon A.; 03-21-2014 at 11:23 AM.
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  #38  
Old 03-21-2014, 02:00 PM
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Those Sony sets were often purchased by folks in the old-money suburbs and rural estates.
A favorite of Doctors and other brahmin-type professionals, who totally eschewed television as entertainment.

It was usually their only set and placed on a bookshelf in a study or other room generally off-limits when entertaining (showing off).

Being surrounded by books somehow offset the cultural faux-pas that was being committed.

By the time these fine instruments came into the shop, the jugs were tired and the controls scratchy, not much else.

In 1982 plunked down $100 for a new jug in my KV-1210U, an excellent receiver of beyond-fringe analog back in the day, to use it as a monitor for the Commodore 64. Now it is simply my true go-to portable. I'm sure Ive seen similar models in a monitor configuring.
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Last edited by DavGoodlin; 03-21-2014 at 02:15 PM. Reason: add note about reliability
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  #39  
Old 03-21-2014, 02:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KV-1926R View Post
I see a big ol' gap coming in technical history as none of today's junk sets will be around in the decades to come. Surface mount=not repairable.
I agree. Flat screens with modules, however, will be repairable, albeit not at board level due to, as you mentioned, surface-mounted components. Most FS TVs only have three such modules and, of course, the LCD panel; when these sets develop problems, they can almost always be found on one of those modules, which of course can be replaced. The LCD display can be replaced easily enough, but the problem is that the cost of a new panel, plus the shop's labor charges, often (more often than not) equals or exceeds the cost of a brand new TV. I personally would not even bother having a flat screen (with a name I never heard of) repaired, for just that reason.

Any flat screen TV that lasts anywhere near ten years will be one for the record books, as these sets are simply not meant to last that long. Replacement of components such as burst electrolytic capacitors or capacitors with bulges (the main cause of total failure in flat screens) is beyond the abilities of most non-technical people, so when any flat screen goes bad after the warranty expires, the set will be put out for the trash and a new one purchased. I saw a Westinghouse 24" (approximately) flat screen in the trash behind my apartment last year; it wound up there probably due to a defective capacitor or even a broken screen. I couldn't tell the condition of the panel, since the TV was placed with the screen facing one of the trash barrels. My best guess is a component failed, probably a power supply electrolytic.

It's a shame that very large flat screens (which includes the newest 4K and UHD [ultra-HD] TVs now appearing in stores), which cost upwards of $1k (not chicken feed to most people), are junked after the warranty expires, and it is very wasteful to junk a smaller set when it eventually quits. Stores such as Best Buy do have recycling programs for old, defective flat screens, but just how many people take advantage of them is anyone's guess unless the store recycles the old sets as soon as they come in.
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  #40  
Old 03-21-2014, 04:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeffhs View Post
I agree. Flat screens with modules, however, will be repairable, albeit not at board level due to, as you mentioned, surface-mounted components. Most FS TVs only have three such modules and, of course, the LCD panel; when these sets develop problems, they can almost always be found on one of those modules, which of course can be replaced. The LCD display can be replaced easily enough, but the problem is that the cost of a new panel, plus the shop's labor charges, often (more often than not) equals or exceeds the cost of a brand new TV. I personally would not even bother having a flat screen (with a name I never heard of) repaired, for just that reason.

Any flat screen TV that lasts anywhere near ten years will be one for the record books, as these sets are simply not meant to last that long. Replacement of components such as burst electrolytic capacitors or capacitors with bulges (the main cause of total failure in flat screens) is beyond the abilities of most non-technical people, so when any flat screen goes bad after the warranty expires, the set will be put out for the trash and a new one purchased. I saw a Westinghouse 24" (approximately) flat screen in the trash behind my apartment last year; it wound up there probably due to a defective capacitor or even a broken screen. I couldn't tell the condition of the panel, since the TV was placed with the screen facing one of the trash barrels. My best guess is a component failed, probably a power supply electrolytic.
The later-model console TVs I scrapped had surface-mount resistors all over the underside of their boards. Looks like certain PCBs which are so thin they're translucent even have traces running through the board, so if one of those goes bad it's game over.

I saw a flat screen set that was about 30" out with someone's trash just a couple of days ago. The entire screen was bashed in. Whether something accidentally hit it or that was what the owner did to it post-failure I'll never know. I wouldn't have picked it up even if the screen were intact.
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  #41  
Old 03-21-2014, 04:46 PM
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My 2cents worth: repairing boards with surface mount components requires a new technique and some new tools, but is *not* impossible for the average hobbyist. Fairly reasonable hot air soldering stations are available... perhaps it is time to pick up a few new tools and master a few new skills rather than draw a line excluding newer electronics components?
Soldering station: http://www.amazon.com/X-TRONIC-MODEL...+soldering+kit
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  #42  
Old 03-21-2014, 04:59 PM
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If it's not a high pin-count surface mount device I can solder it with a regular iron and a good fine point grabbing tool...Though there are VERY few devices that use those parts that I actually care enough about to even bother with.
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  #43  
Old 03-21-2014, 05:20 PM
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What if you have, as James Delaney Buffet so euphemistically put it, "Island-Sized Paws", that are furthermore, pretty well "Eat Up" w/ Uncle Arthur Itis ?!?
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  #44  
Old 03-21-2014, 08:42 PM
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The main circuit board that was in the last DVD player I took apart (because I forgot to eject the disc before cutting off the cord) was about 4 square inches as I recall, crazy. It wasn't until well after I bought its replacement that I learned that even the Japanese-branded stuff is now made by the chinese. That was when I finally got rid of the box. I was shocked and disgusted.
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  #45  
Old 03-21-2014, 11:03 PM
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Flat panel sets can be repaired at the component level. Discrete components and ICs up to certain point can be done with a standard iron with a fine enough tip and some patience. ICs beyond that point will need a hot air rework stations, but these have gotten cheap enough now that even I bought one (haven't got the hang of it yet though). I doubt I'll get to the point where I can do large BGA ICs, but it can be done.

I repair a lot a trash find flat panels and while it can take a while to find parts for some of them my success rate is probably around the same as when I was doing CRT sets.

They are getting worse though. It seems the thinner the sets get, the worse they get. Some seem to crack if you so much as look at them wrong, so regardless of what the original fault was they rarely survive the trip to the curb.
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