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  #1  
Old 02-26-2019, 05:29 AM
Hugo barbedo Hugo barbedo is offline
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European version Philco predicta siesta

hi everyone
i am from Portugal, in Europe
i recently bought a philco predicta siesta from an ebay auction in Italy
it has some very particular features that i think differ from the american models
a wood cabinet, epoxy dipped flyback, 21evp4, 110 and 220v selector switch and 50hz rating. nobody seems to know anything about this particular model , anyone of you guys has some info about it?
maybe a brazilian version that was brought to Europe?how can i tell if it runs on pal or ntsc or even pal-m ?
best regards
Hugo

aa.jpg
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC_g..._as=subscriber
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  #2  
Old 02-26-2019, 06:52 AM
Tom9589 Tom9589 is offline
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This is a black and white only TV so there is no color system (pal, ntsc or pal-m).
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Old 02-26-2019, 07:33 AM
Hugo barbedo Hugo barbedo is offline
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ok sorry because i am only used to work on german tv sets and my english is not perfect...i know that the set is BW that i s very very obvious....
my question is the line frequency will be the same as our sets and it will accept video from my euro RF modulator in principle or it will be for 525 lines instead?

Last edited by Hugo barbedo; 02-26-2019 at 07:47 AM.
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Old 02-26-2019, 07:44 AM
WISCOJIM WISCOJIM is offline
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Hugo, thanks for posting this. I've subscribed to your Youtube channel to follow the restoration story.

I'm not sure if you were aware of it, but this TV was being discussed on the Antique Radio Forums: http://antiqueradios.com/forums/view...91167#p2991167

.
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  #5  
Old 02-26-2019, 09:37 AM
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AlanInSitges AlanInSitges is offline
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Hello neighbor!

Hugo, congratulations on acquiring that very rare Predicta. I have a US-built Holiday that was imported to Spain in 1960 and immediately placed into storage, it's still in new condition. I plan to power it up and restore as necessary once I get through a couple of other sets already on my bench.

I also have a couple of Philco sets from the same era that were built in Spain under license from Philco by Iberia Radio. They also have the voltage selector switch and European power cord. When I first saw that set on eBay I suspected it was made in Spain and then shipped to Italy, and when you removed the back I expected to see the luxury tax stamp on the chassis like every Spanish-made TV from that era:



But that seems it is not the case. The sticker that is partially missing has the text Matr___ - this is not present on the US-built sets, nor on the Spanish ones, so I wonder if that is from a set built in another European country. For sure, there is a Spanish brochure for Philco TVs that includes the Predicta so I know they were at least offered for sale here.

With respect to the UHF tuner, I think that was delivered that way from the factory. The CCIR broadcasts in Spain were moved to UHF in 1961, and I suppose in Italy as well, so the sets had to include a UHF tuner in order to work. Given that the back panel on your set has UHF antenna terminals and printing, I think it must have come that way. All of my Philcos, both US and Spanish, have UHF tuners, and they are all pretty much the same - they look like an afterthought and not part of the original design.

In your video you sound very knowledgable and experienced already but if there is any help I can offer, let me know. I'm just excited to know someone else in Europe has an appreciation for these sets!

Edited to add: they used the exact same circuit design for both the US (later NTSC) and European CCIR (later PAL) sets. Switching between NTSC and PAL composite signals injected to the video amplifier grid, the sets will sync right up. I was really surprised by that!

Last edited by AlanInSitges; 02-26-2019 at 09:53 AM.
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  #6  
Old 02-26-2019, 09:56 AM
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Electronic M Electronic M is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugo barbedo View Post
ok sorry because i am only used to work on german tv sets and my english is not perfect...i know that the set is BW that i s very very obvious....
my question is the line frequency will be the same as our sets and it will accept video from my euro RF modulator in principle or it will be for 525 lines instead?
It definitely seems to be a European market set, but for reference.

I've seen other models of NTSC American sets bought by PAL region collectors who have been able to adjust the sweep circuits to run at the PAL rate (either by controls or changing RC time constants). The sound IF would need retuning for a modulator to supply sound...Other options for American sets are to buy a US market RF modulator and feed it PAL A/V so you don't have to adjust the sound IF.
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Old 02-26-2019, 10:23 AM
Hugo barbedo Hugo barbedo is offline
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hi guys

wiscojim thank you for seeing my crappy videos
i talked to bandersentv before buying the predicta through the comment section of one of his videos, maybe thats the reason he opened the topic on that forum, thanks for letting me know! if you like to see also my german tvs take a look on my uploads. cheers.

Hola AlanInSitges
i go alot to Spain on vacation nice to know there are neighbours with the same interests. you are welcome to stop by my place if you ever come to Portugal, i am in Porto, very beautifull city with excellent food.
the matr. sticker probably means "matricula" meaning serial number.
I will be uploading videos as i go along so please check my channel and maybe you can help me with some doubts that may arise. Its good to know that it syncs with both types of signals when injected at the grid of the video amp, atleast if the tuner is bad or the IF is misbehaving it can be used as a composite monitor but i would prefer to have it fullly operating. My knowledge is more on german sets (Philips mainly) but i think i will not have a problem tackling this one. Thank you for your input.

Electronic M thank you for your input...i think my order of business will be looking for a raster, then restoring the cabinet and clamshell and lastly restore the electronics in depth..i will want to rebuild the k-networks so i will probably need a help on the component values when the time comes for that.
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Old 02-26-2019, 11:26 AM
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AlanInSitges AlanInSitges is offline
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Hugo you are of course welcome to stop by next time you're in Spain. I have a Philips from 1963 that I am afraid to even start on.
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  #9  
Old 02-28-2019, 07:10 PM
Hugo barbedo Hugo barbedo is offline
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Alan in most late 50's and upwards philips sets you only need to replace the boost filter and you are ready to go, they use the yellow mustard capacitors wich do not fail with age and moisture.
electrolitics are also reliable
just pull off the cap of the horizontal output tube and power it up with a lightbulb in series...watch if the filter capacitors dont get hot and watch the power consumption with an ampmeter. if all looks ok give it full power

--------------------


the predicta has already showed me a raster after some temporary repairs
rast.jpg

so i turned my attention to the cabinet
it does not look the same does it?
I repainted the grille, polished the trim, repainted the gold around the dial, retouched and polished the wood cabinet.
after the cabinet i will do the electronic restoration
WP_20190301_01_02_11_Pro.jpg


i need a channel clunker knob ...anybody knows were can i find one?

Last edited by Hugo barbedo; 02-28-2019 at 07:31 PM.
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  #10  
Old 03-01-2019, 04:41 AM
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AlanInSitges AlanInSitges is offline
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Thanks Hugo, good to know!

That cabinet looks like a new set. It will be interesting to see how the chassis turns out.

The knob...those are very, very hard to find. They come up on eBay US once in a while, I think you just have to set up a search and wait.
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  #11  
Old 03-02-2019, 03:27 PM
Hugo barbedo Hugo barbedo is offline
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hi to all!

more progress

arms and base are painted
lens and crt back are polished inside and out
tuner was cleaned inside and out and tuner tubes are tested
i am working on the broken back cover now, i have a new video uploaded to yt about that

meanwhile i would hope some of the american predicta experts could help me identify my chassis or atleast help me find my way to the nearest sams for this chassis, i will be needing that when i get my hands on the board
thank you

WP_20190302_12_41_52_Pro.jpg
WP_20190302_12_42_01_Pro.jpg

Last edited by Hugo barbedo; 03-02-2019 at 03:39 PM.
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  #12  
Old 03-02-2019, 10:13 PM
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Electronic M Electronic M is online now
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Several predicta schematics can be found here. http://www.earlytelevision.org/tv_sc...ms_philco.html

Based on the rear control layout your set does not use a stock US market chassis so any US service info will be at best only partly applicable to your set.
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  #13  
Old 03-03-2019, 05:22 AM
Hugo barbedo Hugo barbedo is offline
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thank you electronicM
i am working with the 10L41 schematic right now...the circuit is similar but the component layout on the board is very different so i cannot use the chassis pictures for component location... that is not an abosute need for me but its kid of a bummer.

apart from the board layout i noticed the following :

the rotary knobs on the top on the americans sets i think there are 3 of them
my set has 4

the range switch is non existant

i have a horizontal linearity coil wich appears to be non existant on the american models i have seen

bumblebee capacitors have the capacity printed on them instead of the stripes and there are no paper and wax capacitors.

the vhf tuner is not philco and the plastic shaft that usually wears out is steel

the flyback seems impossible to acess because the cage is spot welded all around
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Old 03-03-2019, 10:06 AM
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Some thoughts:
American sets did have a range switch, but it was a slide switch, not a knob.

The term paper capacitor in American TV restorer parlance is easily misunderstood...We really should say paper dielectric capacitor but we usually contract it to paper cap out of laziness. If your set uses American sourced capacitors you need to be careful. Most makes in the US used at least some paper dielectric caps into the mid-'60s. Paper dielectric is not always contained in wax-paper outer shells...As far back as the 40's we took paper dielectric capacitors and encapsulated them in bakelite and other plastics. The plastic encapsulated paper caps (like Bumblebees, back beauties, Sangamo Tiny Chief, etc.) are as bad or worse than their wax-paper encapsulated brothers. Even some of the early orange drop style capacitors had paper or a plastic-paper dielectric (those rarely leak current, but are prone to go open or drift capacitance) sandwich.


Some other US sets before and after the predicta did not put a door on their HV cages, but instead to access the fly and HV rect tube required you to unscrew the cage from the main chassis and remove the cage as a unit.
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  #15  
Old 03-03-2019, 04:36 PM
Hugo barbedo Hugo barbedo is offline
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electronicM
thanks for the input..
my set doesnt have that range slider, maybe it has an AGC potentiomenter instead but i cant confirm that yet, i willl have to dig into the circuit first.

all of the film caps are gonna be replaced , the few that i removed for the first power up were completely garbage

i am aware that many use paper as dielectric, not just the waxies, to me the problem with general film caps degrading and becoming leaky is not the paper, its actually the outer insulation. take the example of the mullard mustard caps...i have tvs from the 50's with 30 or 40 caps of those and they all test perfect...i actually pull those caps out of old chassis to repair other sets because they are so reliable...also the ones that are plastic encased or epoxy dipped like erofoil II and WIMA rectangular plastic caps and others are very reliable and dont degrade with time.. but the wima brown drops for example are always shorted and heavily leaky and if you look at the outer insulation its also degraded and flaking.

Last edited by Hugo barbedo; 03-03-2019 at 04:46 PM.
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