US$80 ATSC tuner:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16882107049

US$9 RF modulator:

http://www.beachaudio.com/Video/Acce...r-p-17759.html

US$95 complete digital TV:

http://www.walmart.com/catalog/produ...uct_id=5691091

If a person is lucky enough to have a home big enough to have seven or eight separate places/rooms to watch TV, then I cannot imagine how $300 is going to be a big financial problem.

Despite (surprise!) the complaints about bit rates and interference, etc., HD Radio sounds surprisingly good, even at 48 kb/s as used on the stations with two music channels. Yes, it does indeed sound better than analog FM. The bit rates used on HD Radio are not comparable to MP3 bit rates, any more than you would compare the gas mileage of a hybrid car to a 1994 Mercury sedan when both are traveling at 60 miles per hour.

Even AM HD Radio can sound pretty good with its 32 kb/s bit rate, but it can sound pretty bad too. It all depends on how the radio station has its equipment set up.

One more thing...

For those who like to collect "early" examples of new technology, such as the RCA CT-100 color TV, you may want to consider buying the equivalent in the ATSC digital-TV tuner world. RCA led the market there, too, with the DTC-100 (notice the similar model number?). It sold for around US$650 in 2000, when other tuners were well over $1000. There is one on Ebay right now for $30.

(Am I going too far to suppose that collectors like "firsts and early examples" of lots of things, as opposed to getting themselves stuck in one specific time period?)

Heres the Dick Tracy watch for real.Only 2 grand from Fossil.

Heck no! :nerd: Am straining to keep myself from ordering that cool $95 ATSC CRT set you found at Walmart.

Now if you can get TV modulators that use channels other than 3 or 4, you could build yourself your own "cable head end". You'd need one ATSC reciever box per desired TV station, and a modulator to place its NTSC output onto a selected VHF or UHF TV channel. Then mix everything together by using a multiport cable splitter. You'll probably have to skip alternate channels as the lower sideband supression of TV modulators are likely non-existant. So you'd probably pick channels 2, 4, 6, 7, 9, 11 and 13 (6 and 7 are not adjacent in terms of RF carrier frequency).

Well, that can get expensive quickly.

---

No way... modern digital stuff is stinkin' Chinese robot assembled junk and deserves to get recycled, crushed, landfilled & forgotten forever once obsolete...

Francesco

To some people with little income even $10 is a hardship. Just because you do not know them doesn't mean they do not exist. I have been there, and it's not fun. Like I said it has been forced on the consumers, it could have been done in a way that would let me chose if I want digital tv or not.

Bill R

I started to read this thread but then I started to fell like :beer::bash:

I do have a home big enough, wheither it would be a financial problem or not it is not right. By the way luck had nothing to do with my owning a home big enough. It was paid for, with a lot of hard work, and right now paying $300 to $500 would be a big financial problem.

Bill R

Yeah-- I was actually going to post something wondering if that was starting to happen. A month or two ago I got an agile RF modulator from MCM (www.mcmelectronics.com) on sale for about $32 (item # 33-2740). It has digital sysnthesized tuning (pushbutton channel selection, LED display) from UHF channels 14-69 or CATV channels 65-139. It's designed for inserting into a distribution network, but this low-cost model doesn't have a built-in combiner. So far, I've only informally tried it out, but it seems to work pretty nice and stable.

Anyway, I don't *think* this particular model happens to be in any of the current sale circulars, but I have noticed it (as well as a lot of other-- but higher-end/more expensive-- agile modulators) appearing in a lot of their sale circulars in recent months.

Funny, I was at Wal*Mart last week and noticed all those new ATSC "SDTV resolution" CRT sets. I've actually been kinda thinking of getting one of the 14" RCAs just because this probably marks about the last generation of small CRT TVs (possibly excepting certain special markets). That 14" RCA flat-tube set costs $119.97. Interestingly for that screen size, it's not only stereo, but has *component* video inputs in addition to composite (but no S-Video input). They've got a similar RCA flat-face CRT set in 20" for $149.96 (or $188 with a built-in DVD player). [BTW, just my opinion, but those three RCA sets are about the nicest looking low-end CRT TV's I've seen in a while. Maybe it's just the fact that the manufacturers have finally started to get away from that cheezy silver-painted plastic look (which I always really disliked)]

Now, considering that you can get a 15" LCD *HDTV* at Wal*Mart for under $200 nowadays, I'd say (and as others here have long pointed out) it won't be long before the end of road for CRT sets, especially in the 19"-and-under category. In addition, it seems like practically all of the new CRT sets with ATSC tuners are "SDTV" resolution. The only CRT HDTV's I can recall seeing in stores recently are the Samsung "SlimFit" sets.

I agree. It was too good to pass up, what with component input and such. Once the little set is adjusted (factory contrast is set at 90 percent!) it reminds me of the similar small-size trinitrons. Bright, contrasty, and impressive. BTW, the sensitivity of the ATSC tuner appears to be superior to earlier RCA HDTV's.

Here's a picture I use to convince myself the $119 was well spent: it completes my RCA COLOR TV collection: CT-100 to first RCA HDTV to this little gem that, as you say, may be among the last of the CRT sets.

Of course, when I said "nicest looking" I was thinking in terms of the cabinet styling, but I will say that I did notice that they didn't seem half-bad performance-wise either (for low-end sets), especially the 14" version (though with whatever video distribution system they use in the store, it's hard to tell too much about performance in the store). Glad to hear from someone here that they actually aren't that shabby after all..! Y'know, I think I'm going to have to go pick up one of those cute li'l suckers at that.

Also, regarding that photo, another interesting aspect to that juxtaposition is when you notice that the screen size of that new ATSC digital 14" set is very similar to that of the CT-100. :)

Nice catch. Actually, they measure the same. Here's what I wrote for that photo on my site:

On the right of this little cell picture, the first RCA color set. Made in Bloomington, Indiana in late March 1954, it cost $1000 1954 dollars. It weighed 165 pounds. It has a "15-in." screen that's actually 8.5 by 11 inches.

On the left is the first RCA high definition television set with its huge and heavy 38-in. wide-screen CRT. It was made June 2002 in Mexico. Cost about two-thousand 2002 dollars. Weighs in at 216 pounds without the stand. Its screen is 19.5 by nearly 34 inches.

And the baby of the bunch running there on the floor is special why? It has a flat screen CRT with both NTSC and ATSC tuners, and it has component (composite too of course) inputs just as its big brother on the left. Made in April 2007 in China, it cost just $119, which is slightly less than the New Jersey sales tax on the hi-def set. It has a "14-in." screen that, coming full circle, is actually 8.5 by 11 inches.

Thats a nice little set for $119. ATSC, NTSC tuners and Component input? I'm impressed.

you know there is no repair on those sets. exchange only under warranty. after warranty. guess what in the dump it goes. no support or parts from rca. steve

That's wasteful. I won't buy I set I can't service. I wonder how serviceable the typical LCD set is going to be.

---

I've finally figured out precisely what I want. It's just a matter of finding it. I want one box that will do the following:
*Have an HDTV tuner that will receive digital signals. 480i will be fine.
*Record those HDTV signals without a broadcast flag onto rewriteable discs; in essence, a DVD based VCR
*Have a built-in RF modulator to play back the signal in analog NTSC on channel 4
*Cost less than $100
My family has three fine analog NTSC television sets. I cannot afford new ones, and a $40 tuner box will not help me one bit in timeshifting and archiving off-air programming unless the output is useable for standard VCRs, of which I have three also. I do not have cable TV, but a mast-mounted outdoor antenna that is also used for FM. I refuse to pay to watch television. I am also in no hurry whatsoever to pay for new television sets when the ones I have work just fine.

I gave up "appointment TV" back in 1989 when I got my first VCR. For me, the ability to record off-air is vital; if I can't do what I've been doing since then, I will be one very unhappy camper.

Simply put, if there are too many roadblocks in my path, I will indeed use my television sets for pre-recorded shows and nothing else. Most American television is garbage anyway, and I can get news, entertainment, and information from books, radio, newspapers, and the Internet.

Call me a Luddite if you want to, but ENOUGH IS ENOUGH! :gigglemad

Okay, you'll have to add your own RF modulator and it costs $179.99 right now (though wait a year or two and you'll probably hit the $100 price point for something similar), but here ya go:

http://www.jr.com/JRProductPage.process?Product=4156935

[for those who don't want to click, it's a Panasonic DMR-EZ17K DVD Player and Recorder, selected because it happens to be the least-expensive DVD recorder with a built-in ATSC tuner that happens to currently be offered on the J&R web site] Yer on yer own regarding the "broadcast flag" though.

Just what the doctor ordered. :thmbsp: At least they're out there; local TV salespeople don't even know what I'm talking about. I always had good luck with Panasonic VCRs and TVs, too. Thankyew.
Tom

Okay, curiosity got the best of me, and I plunked down my $119 for one of these li'l sets. It's an RCA 14F514T built in March 2007. When I got it home it occurred to me that this is the first color TV I've bought *new* since the 25" Zenith I got in 1993. Er, actually, come to think of it, that's the *only* other color TV I've ever bought new (that wasn't a gift for someone else, at least).

Anyhoo, I've only made a quick informal check of it at this point, but so far I think it is actually fairly impressive from a price/performance standpoint. Now, I'll point out that this is the first digital set I've had any experience with, so I don't have anything to compare it with, but I'd say I'm pretty pleased with its reception of OTA digital signals. After all the "horror stories" I've heard about how bad digital reception is, I didn't have very high expectations in that regard, but I gotta say, the local digital channels come in nicely enough even with an ordinary VHF/UHF indoor antenna (with a plain UHF loop), but more stably with an old-style RadioShack twin-bowtie-with-reflector UHF indoor antenna. Compared with analog, it is rather disconcerting when the signal momentarily falls below the set's threshold and suddenly "drops out", but that mostly seems to be sensitive to proper antenna orientation. OTA digital reception looks very nice indeed. As Pete says, the factory default for contrast is set too high, but when set up correctly, picture quality with a good source is definitely not too shabby at all for a "standard-def" TV in this size. This set also apparently has a built-in QAM tuner for (unscrambled) digital cable, but I don't have digital cable.

Sadly, by comparison, its NTSC tuner has poor sensitivity. It's probably okay for analog cable (though I haven't tried it on cable yet), but for OTA use it's definitely sub-par to say the least.

The automatic channel set-up process appears to be well designed, and automatically searches all bands for both analog and digital channels.

Perhaps this weekend, I'll see if I can arrange a comparision "shoot out" between this quite-possibly-last-generation 14" CRT set and the other small-screen color sets I've got around here just to see what this thing can do when put up against some competition. :)

Oh, BTW, one bit of "keeping old trademarks active" I spotted on this TV is that the jack panel on the back sports the old "meatball" round RCA logo. It's small, but it's there. Gee, I wonder if any of the other current RCA-branded TVs still have the old "Victor" logo somewhere, just to keep that trademark active too?

I originally wasn't going to mention this (because I didn't want it to sound too much like a commercial... :) ), but it so happens that I bought a Panasonic set-top DVD recorder back when they were still pretty "gee-whiz", and I've been very happy with it. It just runs like a champ. ...And I know exactly what you mean, as I've long watched most of my "live TV" using a video (either tape or DVD) recorder as a timeshifting/archival device.

Anyway, I was pleasantly suprised that it was actually a Panasonic that happened to be the lowest-cost option in that category when I checked that particular web site (note: the choice of J&R was just because they generally have a broad selection of consumer electronics products; not a specific endorsement thereof)

For $189 at Wal-Mart you can get a Magnavox VCR/DVD Recorder ATSC Tuner combo. You still have to use a modulator for analog TV output. It works great, will accept front panel input from camera, video game, etc. You can schedule recording to rewritable DVD just like a VCR. You can also dub between the VHS and DVD in either direction. It is what I am feeding my Zenith roundie with now. I highly recommend it.

Ive actually replaced a backlight on an LCD panel that took a spill off a table before. Most computer stores sell cold cathode lamps that gamers use to illuminate their fancy computer cases. These lamps are pretty similar ones to the ones used in the backlights of LCD panels. All i did is remove the fragile glass lamp from the colored plastic tube and solder it to the inverter board. Once I put it back together, you couldn't tell the difference.

http://microcenter.com/single_produc...uct_id=0248872

About LCD durability... just 50k hours for the backlights and the LCD panel is subject to aging, some are showing dead pixels or lines or a sort of cataract after a few years,

The high voltage inverters used to power the backlights are prone to failure and are virtually impossible to repair, you will need to get a new one,then you'll likely find out that you can't get a new inverter for your 5 yrs old LCD and you need to scrap the whole thing.

I don't think anyone coluld even dream about fixing a bad LCD signal board...

That's the digital revolution for you... it's all about crappy disposable miniaturized SMD cards, flimsy flat wires, junky chinese chipsets, brittle silver painted plastic cabinets and so on... nothing that fits in my home...

Francesco

The "digital revolution"
 

While countries like the USA and Germany are still far behind their original schedules for full implementation of digital TV, the brazilian government, led by the drunk-in-charge Mister Lula da Silva seems to be in a very strange hurry to make Brazil jump quicly in the digital bandwagon. Digital transmissions will begin in December, but it seems that very few people will be able to receive the signals. The gang called "brazilian government" set a few years ago a completely irrealistic goal of having digital converters for sale for US$ 100.00 by the time of the beggining of the transmissions. Now it's clear that, at least on the beggining, those converters will not cost less than US$ 800.00 . The answer of the idiots that run this country is simple: the brazilian industry must be "punished" for it's "incompetence" , and the way to "punish" the industry is by massive imports of converters ... made in China.

I hate to have to say it about my own country, but, it seems that Charles De Gaulle once said: "Brazil is not a serious country" , and I have to agree. The government told us that the brazilian standard of digital TV was unique in the world, so how the hell the chinese have the know-how to produce millions of converters on that standard? I thought that this information was very well kept under secrecy by the government and the brazilian industry. If this were a serious country, a press and congressional investigation would be under way to find out how the chinese know something that only the brazilians and the japanese ( who helped us creating that standard ) were supposed to know.

Today the chinese will produce converters, tomorrow...they will produce TV sets on that standard, and that will be the end of the almost 70-year History of the brazilian electronic industry. We will disappear in the same way the american electronic industry disapeared - crushed by cheap, low quality Asian imports.

Welcome to the 21ist Century.

$95.00 ATSC Wal-Mart TV, Yeah, right
 

NOTICE ALL STORES- OUT OF STOCK 6/27/07:thumbsdn:
Check In-Store Availability

Durabrand 13" Tube TV w/ Digital Tuner, DTV1307
Model #: DTV1307
Price may vary by location. See our pricing policy for details.
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We found 5 stores near Miami, FL that carry this item. (Item availability status is approximate and updated every 24 hours.)

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Wal-Mart# 2091
8651 N.W. 13Th Terrace
Miami, FL 33126
(305) 470-45108.87 miles
View Map & DetailsOut of StockHialeah Gardens
Wal-Mart Supercenter# 2814
9300 N.W. 77Th Avenue
Hialeah Gardens, FL 33016
(305) 819-06729.93 miles
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Wal-Mart Supercenter# 3235
1425 Northeast 163Rd Street
North Miami Beach, FL 33162
(305) 949-588110.63 miles
View Map & DetailsOut of StockMiami Gardens
Wal-Mart Supercenter# 3397
17650 Norhwest 2Nd Ave.
Miami Gardens, FL 33169
(305) 651-466111.1 miles
View Map & DetailsOut of StockHialeah
Wal-Mart Supercenter# 1590
5851 N.W. 177Th St.
Hialeah, FL 33015
(305) 558-606912.64 miles
View Map & DetailsOut of Stock

Hay Richard, I don't care how I spend your money so why not spring for an RCA 14F514T like Whirled One and me. It's only $119.:D

Hi horseman!
Actually, in my opinion, LCDs are good devices for computers, but LCD in my Compaq Presario laptop from 2004 is not so bright than a new one...:dunno:

But...
Is there an high voltage device in it?
There are only some LEDs, i think.

Speaking of digital TV and CRT displays, I'm using a VGA monitor with a screen with viewable area that measures 19" diagional, and an ATSC Samsung tuner. Looks really good. I might house all this in that empty CTC19 cabinet I have around here.... To create a console HDTV set :D

Yes, there's a high voltage generator (the inverter) to feed about 2kv to a cold cathode fluorescent lamp, that's basically a tiny neon sign tube...

Laptop computers usually have just one lamp, monitors and TVs usually have two.

LED backlights are used only in smaller LCD screens such as cellphones or digital cameras

Francesco

When I buy atsc TVs
 

Hi Pete, I was not complaining about the price for the ATSC TV, just the fact that they advertise that all the Florida stores will have plenty of stock by the begining of June and you see that not one store in the South Florida area has one. I am going to keep the four sets I have until after the analog cutoff then get my one "free" converter from Comcast for the large Mitsu CRT rear projection that still has an excellent picture after 9 years with no service, no several hundred dollar replacement lamp, no color wheel motor, no "wobbulation" to make the micro-mirrors act like they are pointing in two places at once, no micro-mirrors, no cold cathode light tubes. When it dies then I will buy a "modern large scren. Yeah I am old fashioned and I like it! I know I am beating a dead format but when color came around it was backward compatible with monochrome
sets and I feel that should apply to digital and HD. BAH, HUMBUG.
Richard:no:

I do NOT like empty cabinets:nono: (Why mister Harry Poster kills his TVs?:tears:)
Actually, your idea for the CTC19 is good; in my opinion my Irradio set ("Per tritwi") has an ideal cabinet for an "Apple" Philco TV set (or "proto Apple TV") from the 50s (except for 70 degrees deflection).
My Irradio TV will never be cannibalized until my death, of course. :nono:

Nonlosapeeeeeeeeevoooooooooo!
Thank you!
Do you like my recent posts in "Per tritwi", Francesco?
What TVs have you picked up with tritwi in Florence, as you wrote to me in your e-mail?:thmbsp:

Yes, i enjoyed reading your posts, nice to know another Italian TV nut ;)

Tritwi's TVs were a 26" 1976 Philco Magicolor w/delta CRT, a 23" 1963 Emerson tube B/W set and a 26" 1992 Philips "Match Line" W/built in subwoofer.

Francesco.

I just purchased one of the RjTECH RJ 1000ATSC tuners mentioned by ChrisW6ATV and below has been my experience so far. (I already have a modulator.)

I had two small 1960s vintage B&W analog TVs in the same general location., one connected to the ATSC tuner and one tuned to the same station's analog signal(UHF channel 36). The ATSC was connected to new amplified rabbit ears (claiming to be HDTV compliant). The other TV just has a loop antenna across the UHF terminals. I am about 30 miles from the transmitter.

The picture on the analog TV is somewhat snowy, but watchable. The snow level varies somewhat. I can vary it somewhat by walking between the TV and the transmitter. The ATSC picture is perfect when it works. However, the reception seems to be on the edge. The picture frequently pixelates and the sound stops, then it comes back. Walking between the rabbit ears and the transmitter direction also seems to make this worse. To me this is more irritating than the snow(for one thing, none of the dialog is missed on the analog connected TV). I am sure that if I had a taller antennal on the ATSC tuner, this could be reduced or elminated since I am only 30 miles from the transmitter. This re-inforces my concern about people in rural areas. If HDTV does not work better than this, a lot of these people will be screaming.

Another unknown in my situation is the relative strength of the UHF vs HDTV transmitted signals from the station. As this station has been advertising their HDTV transmissions, I would think that they would use a fairly strong transmitter.

One more note-If you buy one of these, be sure and follow the directions in the manual and not sit anything on top of it. It runs quite warm.

Reception around here can be quite patchy, but digital is affected far more than analog.

I've recently moved. At my old location I could get perfect analog reception of all channels except the low power community station with a pair of rabbit ears. Digital was non existant with the rabbit ears or glitchy reception of 2 out of 5 channels with the roof top antenna.

My new location is no more than 5km from the old one. My analog reception here isn't as good. With a roof top antenna I get some slight ghosting and 1 out of 5 channels is slightly snowy, but still watchable. Digital reception here is much better, perfect reception of all channels.

Even with perfect reception I find the picture quality varies a lot between programs and the variations are a lot more noticable than when watching the analog signal. I'll make some direct comparisons when I set up my Sony VTX-100EC analog tuner.

With the RGB output from a Thomson DT1500AU standard definition set top box going into my Sony PVM2130QM monitor the picture is amazing on some programs, but others are plagued by digital artifacts (particularly locally produced programs).

I've tried 3 different set top boxes so far, but I'm not completely satisfied with any of them. A Teac that was prone to glitches even when it was getting full signal strength. A Centrex that was frustratingly slow to change channels (but was the only one so far with a built in RF modulator). The Thomson has a noisy analog audio output. All run hot (even the Thomson which has an external power supply). When I find a box I'm happy with I will be modifying it to improve cooling.

I have not noticed any variations in picture between programs. Could be the TV that I am watching.

I have done some more experimentation with the other stations in my area. All of the HTDV transmitters are about in the same location(the tallest hill in the area, about 30 miles away). I have found that the CBS(analog 42) channel is better than NBC (analog 36). The ABC(analog 24) channel is quite a bit worse than NBC(hard to even watch).

Although the HDTV receiver indicates a channel where FOX is supposed to be located, no picture shows up, just a blank screen. I have heard that the FOX HDTV transmitter is weak(Supprising as they are one of the strongest analog channels(analog 7) in the area). Also got a channel indication for a local independent channel(analog 54), but no picture(Not supprising as I have a hard gettiing their analog signal as well). The PBS(analog 18) channel did not show up on the HTDV converter search. I am aware that the national PBS organization has HDTV shows, but I am not sure if they are broadcasting them in this format locally yet.


If you are wondering why there is only one analog VHF channel, thank LBJ. I live near Austin, Texas and he owned the only TV station in town in the 1960s. Did not like competition.