2009 coversion
 

ordered mine this mornin , got two coupons

Questions...
 

Mike: Did you happen to notice the coupon number; I hear it's around one million requests now.

Kevin: I see the museum in Windsor is maybe a 4000-foot walk from an Amtrak station -- that seem accurate? Makes it an easy trip if so.

Pete

This is similar to how the USA boxes will be. The SD ones will be eligible for the coupon discount. HD boxes have been available since 1998, but are not eligible for the coupons, unfortunately.

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Ordered mine yesterday
 

Too bad I didn't make note of the numbers-- I signed in and gave my info without any trouble, applied for two boxes. I bookmarked the page that had the number, and now i see it says 'session has expired'. Guess that was a bad idea. So I'm a little confused: The coupons expire 90 days after issue? But radotvguy you got yours already? If so, where does one find these converters in a retail store?

I believe you should have seen a notice that the coupons will not be sent out until boxes become available in your area.

think of it this way, its kinda like a uhf converter box for a vhf only tv....kinof a piece of history.





maybe not but it helps me sleep at night.

I thought the deal with the coupons was not that you couldn't get an adapter without it, but that it allowed you to get a $40 discount. Am I wrong?

I've 11011862 as of 10:58 pm 1/3/08

#1012924 on 04-Jan-2008 12:13 AM EDT

You are correct

I did get to visit the museum today via a quick round trip on Amtrak; although I had little time between trains and therefore little time there, your CT-100 was very impressive in its performance. Your gray scale tracking was envious. Sorry to have missed you.

Pete

I have applied for the coupons, # 1219729. (Sat. Jan. 5th)
The antenna blew down at my house and I have not re-installed it since I got DirectTV 4 years ago or so...am looking forward to getting the better quality of digital plus the sub-channels especially on public television. (I was never able to get all that great over-the-air analog reception but I'm thinking there is enough signal strength for digital).

Hi Pete,

Thanks! We are in line for 2. Our CTC-5 and 1962 Zenith thank you for more good years.

Coupons Not required
 

I've never heard that those coupons are required to get a converter; if you want to pay full price you can get one as they become available at any time; now if you want that $40 discount then thats where you need the coupon. I understand they will have only so many coupons available--they budgeted a certain amount for all this. If I'm wrong someone can correct. if people dilly-dally around and miss the coupon offer then they'll have to pay full price and I'm sure there will be thousands who don't have a clue and will make a big stink about it come FEB. 2009----can't wait for all the whiners to make themselves heard.

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Pretty sure it's first come first served. That's why they provide the reference numbers. Nowhere have I read that those who check "antenna" will go to the head of the line.

-Steve D.

I answered with the truth... I use only an antenna for my TV signals. (Well, I do have a C-band satellite dish with digital and analog reception and a Ku dish with MPEG/DVB receiver, but I assume those don't count. I do not pay for any signals these dishes receive.)

There will be, I think, 11 million "coupons" (actually credit/gift-type cards) in Round 1 of the program, available to anyone who asks. Round 2 coupons will only be available to people who have not recently subscribed to cable or satellite TV.

May not be too easy to find at first, but...
 

Washington, D.C. (January 7, 2008) -- EchoStar today announced that it will sell a Digital TV converter box for $39.99.

At that price, consumers could buy a converter box with a $40 coupon provided by the federal government without having to spend their own money.

I'll bet other sellers will market $40 converters also.

I am begining to get questions about the set top boxes at the store now. The problem is that so far we have no set top boxes, at any price, at our Wal-Mart. Nor do we have any current way to redeem the coupons if we had the merchandise. Our electronics department will reset in April or May, and we may have some on the new plan. Problem is the coupons may have expierd before we have any boxes to sell.
Charter is telling customers it is going all digital, but I suspect you will need their converter box, knowing how greedy they are. Customers are thinking they will need the retail set top box the comercials are talking about, even though they have cable.

Bill R

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I am sure the "coupon-eligible" boxes will not tune QAM signals. Apparently the government program is specific that the boxes will work for OTA and SD output only. Of course, you can get one of the Samsung or other boxes that tune QAM, but they will not be priced near US$75.

I have been doing some digging about the coupon system's technical requirements for converter boxes for minimum features to qualify, optional features that will not disqualify and prohibited features which will disqualify, I hope this helps (I lifted a LOT of text from the report, which explains the obtuse language and some "posturing":

Act defines the term “digital-to-analog converter box” (a CECB)

Require = must have for coupon program
Permit = will NOT disqualify for coupon program, so it isn’t required..
Not permitted or prohibited = disqualify from coupon program


The Final Rule contains the requirement that the CECB receive all television channels 2-69.

The Final Rule will clarify that a CECB is required to receive, decode and display all channels, including multicast channels (2-1,5-3, etc) , broadcast by digital television station that can be displayed on an analog television receiver.

require a remote control that is supplied with batteries and uses standard technology and codes commonly used by television manufacturers as part of remote controls provided with television receivers. (at minimum to turn on and off tv)

requires that the CECB include an RF output and also requires that the CECB include composite outputs for those consumers who wish to continue to use the features provided by this technology. (yellow, white and red jacks) permit a S-video output .

require a power light indicating when the unit is turned on.

require manufacturers to include software which will display on the television receiver signal strength and permit the display of other operating parameters chosen by the manufacturer.

require that manufacturers supply an RF cable

NTIA's requirements for a CECB include two watt power consumption during the “sleep” mode, and does not include a specification for power consumption during the “on” mode.

-----------------------------------
permit a S-video output which provides a better standard definition picture using a simple and inexpensive hookup with one cable.

permit, but not require, manufacturers to include in their CECBs the circuitry and connectors associated with the so-called smart-antenna interface.

will permit, but not require, manufacturers to include matching transformers to connect 300-ohm ribbon leads to the required Type F connectors. The Final Rule will also permit manufacturers to provide connectors for 300-ohm inputs on the CECB.

In the Final Rule, NTIA permits that the converter box to pass through the analog signal from the antenna to the TV receiver.

NTIA will permit manufacturers to follow current industry practice regarding RF outputs for audio/video equipment which provides a mono RF output which is switchable between a station’s main channel audio and other associated audio services.

NTIA will also permit manufacturers to provide BTSC Multichannel Television Sound (stereo audio) in the RF output, Consumers will also have the option of receiving stereo audio through the converter box’s left/right audio outputs (RCA connectors).

permit the manufacturer to provide a programmable remote control which can accept the code of the consumer’s existing analog receiver and related video/audio equipment.

NTIA will permit, but not require, a CECB to display other electronic program information

permit manufacturers to supply additional cables, such as a cable with three RCA connectors, if they desire.

permit a CECB to receive and decode software pursuant to ATSC Standard A-97.(automatic software download and upgrade capability)

permits, but does not require, manufacturers to provide converter boxes that operate on battery power as well as those which use an external AC/DC power input.

permit the display of other operating parameters chosen by the manufacturer

------------------------------------------
prohibited: NTIA clarifies in the Final Rule that CECBs are prohibited from containing items such as display screens, recorders or storage devices that go beyond the simple task of converting a digital television signal to an analog signal for display on analog television receivers.

The Act, therefore, does not permit the output to another device such as a computer which might be required to capture streams of data included on the digital television transport stream.

not be permitted: NTIA specifies in the Final Rule these connectors ((DVI), (HDMI), (YPbPr), (VGA), USB IEEE-1394 (sometimes trademarked as iLink or Firewire), or IEEE-802.3 (Ethernet) or IEEE-802.11 (wireless)) will not be permitted in a CECB. Likewise,

my note: we can thank Funai ** for the loss of component video (YPbPr) jacks, I wouldn't call this "digital" information...but it IS better than s-video. There ARE a few (YPbPr) capable sets that do not have ATSC tuners. The probably do have S-video, but now Funai is on my $#!* list....


** "Funai then listed a series of connectors which it felt should not be permitted in the NTIA supported converter box. Funai requested that the following connectors be excluded from the converter box program:"

Here's a link to TECHNICAL APPENDIX 1 NTIA Coupon-Eligible Converter Box (CECB) Required Minimum Performance Specifications and Features

Bottom of the range SD set top boxes typically sell for between AU$35 and AU$50 depending on what sale is on at the time. As there is no coupon program here there are no restrictions. Most of them included composite, S-video and either component or RGB outputs. I haven't seen any with internal RF modulators, the RF out connector on them is just a loop through.

At least your cheap boxes will decode a HD signal even if they will only output SD. Our cheap SD boxes only decode an SD signal leaving our stations to broadcast an SD signal, a HD signal and (until the cut off, I don't remember when it supposed to occur) a PAL analog signal.

If you want a converter, but can wait you should start finding them hitting the curbs by mid 2009. Like most bottom of the range electronics a lot of them will barely make it through their warranty period. I find them quite regularly. The most common faults are bad capacitors (no suprise) and damaged connectors (they weigh almost nothing, so it's easily done with tight fitting "monster" cables or even just RG6).

I applied for two coupons. Reference #1583331.

Phil Nelson

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Here's a Word table of the stats we've accumulated in this thread thus far: it is sorted on the third column, the coupon number returned when the application was successful.

It seems one and a half million coupons have been issued. The first half-million were issued in the first 24 hours, while it took about six days to issue the third half-million.

Pete

The Funai input was done during the clarification process as the act that was passed by congress and signed by the president was interpreted into a set of specifications.

Conceivably, one could go to court with the original act, and the specifications as established, and sue to try to get the component video (YPbPr) jacks excluded from the not permitted list on the grounds that they are NOT a digital signal nor convey digital information. (vga should also fall under that umbrella definition too)

The problem is that since the requirements form the blueprint for what the manufacturers have been working on, and since the coupon program is a temporary and limited phenonema, it's too late even if it's wrong.

I do not see the omission of a component output as a problem in any way. First of all, it most definitely would have been SD only. Omitting it keeps the boxes simple to hook up. The people these boxes are intended for will probably not want do deal with component-video cables, nor do I want to see the stores have the opportunity to sell them "Monster"-type component cables with the boxes. (I can just see it now-"You are saving $40 with your coupon, and this cable is 'only' $30, and you really need it".)

Anyone who cares enough about the small improvement between S-video and component-video on a 480i analog CRT display should just skip all this cheap box stuff and upgrade to real HDTV anyway.

Remember, there are plenty of better boxes already available, though they are hard to find and you don't get a $40 discount.

I agree, and there is a provision in the act against manditory bundling, but I can imagine some pushy salesman....

Eventually those component video (CRT) sets will trickle down to us collectors (who will save them) as their former owners discard them. Of course that presupposes that the coupon boxes will survive beyond the warantee period. In fact that is the primary mode of acquisition for me, discarded or broke.

I am only aware of the sir-t451 and dtb-h260f from samsung, in fact I have service manuals for both. Which others are there? I have yet to find any with an RF (ch 3 or 4) output. I'm not yet at the point of purchasing an rf modulator for the ATSC tuners I have. I have been getting defective Panasonic dmr-ez27 dvd recorders and getting them working as tuners (for now) at a better price than defective ATSC tuners. In fact in a few years when peoples now working dvd recorder's lasers age out and they are useless otherwise......

So it looks like I will wait until the coupon converters come out with their included RF modulators for my tv's with only RF input.

Reference Number: 1629248

Date Submitted: 01/10/2008

Thanks!

Why does this remind me of Soviet breadlines....

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I don't know what models may be on the market now that have HD outputs; the Samsung DTB-H260F may be the only big-name one available now. Others include the model ZAT-600 under more than one brand name, Newegg has it for US$110, and the Coby DTV140 at Ecost among others.

There have been a couple dozen others in the past, including combo over-the-air and DirecTV tuners (they can all be used without a DirecTV subscription, except the DirecTV-brand ones). Ebay is a good source for them. The best are the LG-built ones: Zenith 420 and 520, Sony SAT-HD200 and 300, Hughes HTL-HD and several LG-brand versions including one DVR.

Oh, none of them have RF outputs; you would need an add-on modulator. Also, most or all of them will not work in HD-output mode at the same time you use the SD output to feed a modulator.

Andy, the Echostar TR-40 wil sell for $39.99 beginning in March.

Excuse my ignorance on the subject, as I stick to the ANALOG areas of life.
Circuit City, Best Buy, and Amazon stock Samsung converters in the $160 range.
And, I have just applied for two $40 coupons.

What I want to know, is will a picture procured from digital broadcasts, and played on an ANALOG set, be as good as the ANALOG picture I now enjoy on my ANALOG set?
When I watch my old-fashioned TV, I can easily tell what is sourced from digital and what is from ANALOG. Digital is blotchy and smudgy.
Is this what we have to look foward to?
Seems to me that Big Brother has shoved his foot up our collective asses once again, by forcing us to settle for junk.

I am not a fan of digital. It it still no more than just a thin representation of the original.

Seth
Forever Analog and Covered In Parrot Poop

I downloaded the mail-in form and will patiently just sit on it, plus I see no burning need to apply for coupons that only have a maximum 90-day shelf life when the choice and availability of current converter boxes is still sparse and the final price after coupon still over $100.00.

Frankly, I'm debating whether it isn't better to wait and apply that $100+ towards the ever-falling price of a medium-sized wide-screen (32"-37") LCD TV for my 80+ yr old Mom, rather than saddling her with yet another component to deal with along with another battery-eating remote.

The current $160-range cost of ATSC-to-NTSC converter boxes will not hold once the $40 chits are mailed to us. One company has already promoted a $39.99 converter box.


Questions about whether analog box output signals will produce a picture equal to an OTA NTSC signal haunts me.

Today I can tune a CT-100 to an analog broadcast and expect the RF signal to be every bit as good or better than the signal it received when it was new in 1954.

It's not the source material/video that has me worried; it's that that little converter chip with a saw filter and channel 3 RF oscillator, or however it's designed today, that doesn't I'm sure have to meet the same FCC broadcaster's rules and regs that define the quality of the analog signal it generates.

When I tune OTA color bars late a night, I have confidence I'm using an in-spec test signal to touch-up the CT-100 alignment. Thankfully, it's something we we can count on for at least another whole year.

Pete

From the start, Congress intended this program to aid over-the-air NTSC viewers, especially ones that could not afford pay TV. There are very few (if any) NTSC-only 4:3 TVs that have Y-Pr-Pb inputs, and hence providing this interface on a converter box would provide a capability over and above the intent of Congress. For these reasons, this interface would not have survived the Rulemaking, even without the Funai comments.

Funai was just stating the obvious -- the Y-Pr-Pb interface does not aid the target audience.