I recently got a new window air conditioner from Home Depot and it looks like it was made by LG. The perfomance is good...but part of the chassis that goes between the inside evaporator and fan and compressor outside appears to be made of styrofoam! Not even plastic with styrofoam insulation between, just a sheet of styrofoam.

Guys, I'm afraid it's gonna just get worse...my uncle read int he "Wall Street Journal" that there is nothing made in the USA that basically can't be made cheaper somewhere else. That's pretty scary, if you think about it. -Sandy G.

I remember as a kid in the late 70's and early 80's that there was a store in the next town. It was a "Pamida" and they carried ALL the awful electronic crap!!! "Goldstar", "Portland" & and any other OFF brand they could get. I also remember all the people getting the CRAPPY Emerson VCR's from that store that would crap out in about a month, and this was still when mono, 2-head VCR's were still $350.00 + Anyway...... after making fun of ALL that Goldstar crap back then because I worked in a Zenith store, I never would have imagined Goldstar buying the name, and the death of Zenith. When my Uncle closed shop in the mid to late 80's everybody thought he was nuts, because he got into the computer business. Started out with Zenith / Heath equipment. He was smart enough back then to see the writing on the wall for all the US manufactures....

So then what do you get for a modern TV?

YES, I want a vintage collection of TVs but for daily home theater, I want something modern. It just seems that the Zenith is one of the best looking and best performing TVs out there. The Zenith has alot of advanced features that you could only get in a bigger more expensive HD system ie: progressive scan, 16:9 correction, etc.

As far as appliances, Whirlpool is the way to go. They're still american made workhorses.

Jason, That is a good question! In my opinion I think most new stuff is junk. but like myself I'm sure most of us have a new "daily watcher" If the Zenith looked good then consider getting it! (with an extended warranty, which with the way stuff is made now I would say that with ALL brands) Anyway... I don't have alot of room in my place so I got a 24" Toshiba flat screen. Had gone with a Sony Wega first, but the picture was crap, and after reading reviews and e-opinions I decided to go with a different brand alltogether. I think Panasonic still puts out pretty good stuff. Everyone is gonna have their own opinion, but my advice is to see what has the best picture and value for the money. I still think the saying "you get what you pay for" still holds true in electronics altho my Sony mistake proved me wrong on that one....

Yeah I bought one of those recently to use up at my camp. and it has the styrofoam like that too. They are just made to be disposible. Hell, I think the unit only cost me a hundred bucks!

Meanwhile, out in my garage, i was attempting to pull the chassis out of this zenith and it looks like a nightmare! I think this time I will just turn the set on it's side and go in thru the bottom of the cabinet! All of the power control switches and lights have their leads soldered instead of using plugs, and some of the tuner is the same way. It looks like yanking this chassis would be a major pain in the ass. Thank God they put that cut-out in the bottom of the cabinet for servicing!

I've also noticed the wording on the right side of this label that makes me think this CRT was repalced. "New electron gun, other materials may not be new" is not usually seen on original crts.

Was in a classroom the other day and they have what appears to be a very recent (if not brand new) Zenith TV and VCR. Both of which don't actually say Zenith on them, instead they use just the lightning bolt "Z" emblem. Strange.

Color seems decent enough, who knows for sure unless it can be compared to other sets side by side. The amazing thing is how downright awful some new sets are. Go to your local Good Guys/Best Buys/Circuit City etc and take a look. It's not just a matter of different adjustments, it's the sets or brand themselves.

RESEARCH BEFORE YOU BUY! You no longer can be blindly be brand loyal.

Anthony

Sony TVs aren't very good at all. Their ES line of recievers are excellent. I have one and I love it. Their everything else isn't that great. At Best Buy there's a 27" Sony right next to a 27" Toshiba flattie. The difference is night and day. The sony seems fuzzy while the Tosh was crisp and clear.

Toshiba seems to be the winner as far as value and picture quality.

The Zenith comes in 2nd plus it's a HD CRT which gives you the benefit of HD in a 27" size. Plus if I buy a Zenith HDTV at Circuit City, I get 12 free months of HDTV service with my cable company.

The Pana came in 3rd as far as pic but it didn't give as much detail as the Zenith/LG.

Charlie said: Meanwhile, out in my garage, i was attempting to pull the chassis out of this zenith and it looks like a nightmare! I think this time I will just turn the set on it's side and go in thru the bottom of the cabinet! All of the power control switches and lights have their leads soldered instead of using plugs, and some of the tuner is the same way. It looks like yanking this chassis would be a major pain in the ass. Thank God they put that cut-out in the bottom of the cabinet for servicing!


I am working on a RCA CTC-31 w/remote and it is such a pain to get into the chassis. For one thing, the circuitboards are mounted in such a way that it can be very difficult to get to all of the solder points on them. Also just getting under the chassis is difficult...there are no detatchable plugs to the tuner, and the way the auxiliary control panel is designed makes it hard to tip the chassis up to get under it while it is still in the cabinet.

The more I look at other brands of tube type sets the more I like the Zenith quality. Have never had the 6GH8 color sync drift, the fried flybacks, etc.

Take it w/gr of NaCl and 1000mg Tylenol
 

Yah. I have 20+ channels on off-air (or would if I had a DT adapter). I would pay for TV but it's a lot like the old daze:

The quality doesn't go in before the show goes on...

I went to a Sears store here. They had a 16:9 HDTV thing for $600??? You should've seen that thing clip the chroma and <BLEED>:yuck: :wtf: :yuck:

Maybe it's all crap:rolleyes:

I've gotta back jason on this one, besides "making" some pretty decent TVs, my sister ended up buying a Zenith DVD/VHS combo unit that not only had some styling to it, but actual useful features and at a good price too. Nary a problem yet-

But that's the question...how many folks rely on the 'new' stuff for daily watching vs. firing up a roundie?

I fire up the roundie... mainly because i dont have any 'new' stuff. :)

If my color roundies were at my current location, I would fire them up without question. The most modern set I have is an RCA colortrak from the mid to late 70's. Then again, I fire up my BW roundie (Andrea) and my restored portables (all 2 of them) and the programming theyt reproduce still sucks.

On the window A/C units, the styrofoam is used for fan shrouds (condenser side) and blower housings (evaporator). As long as the fan blades and squirrel cages don't go out of balance, they should be OK.

As far as the death of Zenith, the quality may not go in before the name goes on anymore, but the old REAL Zeniths are still here and will outlast any junk LG makes.

Turned the set on its side and was able to change out a small handful of caps this evening, but it really hasn't made any difference. Two of the lytics were for the sound output, but I still have a good healthy hum coming from the speakers. I think another lytic was in in AGC. Don't recall what the 4th one was for.

Turns out that most of the lytics for b+ are 80mfd/475V and 4mfd/450V... there's about 8 of them, so I'll have to go to the parts house tomorrow. Kinda afraid they won't have the 80/475's. I think the highest they have is 80/450, which would probably work, but I don't really want to take that chance.

A few of the lytics had already been changed, and looks like there are some fairly new orange drops in there (but still plently of Blk Beauties to swap).

old and new ....NTSC and PAL
 

folks,

I have to say my 1976 Philips produced far better color than my 1999 Sony .....maybe in the "good old days" when colour was an expensive toy, the manufacturers were still interested in quality.

These days it is just about churning them out for the minimum cost. (Especially the no-name brands from China).

One interesting thing for we in non NTSC land ...is that the black levels for NTSC and PAL are different.

My Sony actually often produces better colour from NTSC sources eg: DVDs than many pure PAL sources like off air broadcasts.

This is especially true if you use Sony's presets.

I certainly have to switch settings for NTSC sources to ensure true blacks and to get chroma settings right.

---

I find that the old TV's are good for TV station viewing and some DVD's, but I do use a 1979 Zenith Space command and a 1985 Sony 19" set for some DVD/videotape viewing. The tube type sets often have too much trouble coping with Macrovision.

Chad, We have the SAME sets! (or did). I use a 1979 System 3 space command in the bedroom, and had used a 1985 Sony in the living-room. The picture tube was going out on the Sony so that's when I got the new Toshiba. I remember when VCR's first came out and when we would sell one it would usually follow with a new tv sale because of the "bending" at the top of the screen on the tube sets. I'm still working on trying to get a console tube set for a daily watcher tho...

I have a 1999 RCA XL-100 as a daily watcher in my living room, and a 1995 Zenith "Sentry 2" 19" set in my bedroom. Both sets have remotes and work well on cable (Comcast digital and analog, respectively); the Zenith has gone almost ten years with no problems at all, while the RCA has had only one small problem in almost five years.

The picture quality of both sets is excellent, especially since Comcast rebuilt its entire system in my small town. The Zenith doesn't get much use right now as I don't watch TV in the bedroom as a rule, but it will become my daily watcher when the RCA eventually goes West (after the extended warranty expires, of course).

Personally, as I have said before, I am amazed and pleased I have not had any CRT or chassis troubles with the Zenith in nearly ten years (this set was made during the period when Zeniths were notorious for catastrophic CRT failures and troublesome chassis designs), but I'm not complaining. That set was my daily watcher from 1995 until 1999, and served me very well during that time. Considering all the problems being reported with the new Zenith branded Gold Star (now LG) sets, I consider myself very lucky to have gotten a mid-'90s Zenith which has been so trouble-free (knock on wood).

BTW, my set has the company name "Zenith" prominently displayed on the front panel, at the top of the control cluster to the right of the CRT. The Z is Zenith's trademark lightning bolt. The computer-generated label on the back of the set with the date and place of manufacture, etc., near the 75-ohm antenna/cable connector, clearly states "Zenith Electronics Corp., Glenview, Ill. 60025", so this set must have been made before Gold Star took over the company. However, the set was manufactured in Mexico, which leads me to believe Zenith already had moved its main plant there by the mid-'90s; the Glenview, Illinois address was likely that of their business and administration offices at the time.

---

thats gotta be one of the last ones "Zenith" put out. Zenith did have stuff assembled in a plant in Mexico by the early 80's. If you check out the early System 3's it had already started. I remember my Grandpa (who worked in the shop as well) cussing about that. He really pushed the "made in the USA" thing.

Hey Andy, Has anyone figured out what caused the CRT's to be bad? Was it a Goldstar thing or did Zenith screw up? I knew the tubes were bad during those years, but never knew why.

---

Seems like old times...
 

I dug a little deeper into the "Zenith Electronics Corp." site, (not LG). Zenith lists several analog sets, in various screen sizes, in their current? lineup. Including 2 large "wood" consoles in traditional cabinet style. It seems strange, and 60's like, seeing these large oak sets with speakers behind sculptured cutouts on each side of the pix tube. I wonder if the remotes say "Space Command" on em?

zenith traditonal models
 

...it looks like something from the 60s but then this is what a real TV should look like!! ..not a black or silver box in the corner but a real piece of furniture!!

This is the 25" Zenith "traditional" model ...there is 27" as well.

Pity I cannot by one here in Australia!

That'd be right, though while I don't remember the exact dates, I tend to suspect your TV was made after LG bought a majority state in Zenith, but before they took them over outright.

I have a 25" Zenith Sentry 2 (also Mexican-made) that I bought new in late 1993, and I remember feeling a pang of depression about a year later when the news came out that LG was buying 51% of Zenith... :(

Anyway, by sheer coincidence, the past couple of weeks around here have been scattered "Spring clean up days" (large-trash pickup days) for many of the communities around here, and last weekend I picked up a 27" Zenith Advanced System 3 off the curb. It was made in January 1991 and was manufactured (assembled) in Zenith's plant in Springfield, MO. Anyone know exactly when Zenith stopped making TVs there? I figure this has got to be just about the last model year for any "Made in USA" Zeniths, though.

Normally, I wouldn't have been interested in such a recently-made TV, but I guess I couldn't resist, given that this was probably one of Zenith's nicer table-model sets at that time, and might make an easy replacement for my aformentioned low-end Sentry 2.

BTW, considering this relatively late-model TV was being tossed out, I fully expected it to be broken, so I was surprised to discover that it actually does seem to function quite well. However, when the power is switched off, a small roundish red 'spot' a couple of inches in diameter appears in the center of the CRT for a few seconds before it fades away (sorta reminicent of some old color TVs where the picture would collapse into a small rainbow "burst" for a few seconds while the HV caps discharged). Any idea if this is harmless, or could it be a sign of disaster to come? (thus explaining why it was tossed in the trash...)

Also, don't forget Maytag and Amana appliances. Maytag (which recently bought Amana) is still based in Newton, IA (though for how long that will remain is the subject of some debate), and most Maytag and Amana appliances are still made in the USA, with most of their 'core' products still made in Newton, IA and Amana, IA respectively.

Are Speed Queen / Amana washers still made in Ripon, WI?

Also, I would suspect that most GE / Hotpoint large appliances (ovens, ranges, dishwashers, refrigerators, etc.) would also still be made in the USA, but I haven't looked recently. [If anyone knows differently, feel free to correct me.]

---

I can say that it's pretty hard, if not impossible to find a made in USA Freezer (Canadian would be OK too, since it's not a third-world country that exploits its workers.) After shopping around for one about 18 months ago, I decided not to add any more money to the pockets of the greedy, and bought a 20-year-old "Gibson" for $50. Still working good, and I'm $350 ahead.

I just bought an antique (30s?) electric oscillating fan from eBay rather than another throw-away piece of crap from China. Fits in nice with my living room decor, unlike some more plastic garbage.

Actually, I've used this approach for many of the things in my house...

Fridge/stove, Kenmore (1965)
Maytag Dishwasher came w/house (1995)
Garage fridge, Kelvinator (1947)

All 5 TVs are Zenith from 1958-1990 (I have more, but they aren't really used daily)

Audio system, 1967 Magnavox
Kenmore Washer (1968) Dryer (1983)
Kenmore Vacuum (1975) and newer US-made Oreck
Transoceanic Zenith radio (1972)

I will confess to a newer DVD/CD player, since that technology didn't exist back in the day. Also have a Sharp above the stove microwave, but only to save counter space. If I had room, I'd junk that barely-legible-LED POS and find an old Chrome Amana radarange, like the one we still use at work.

My '79 Zenith Chromacolor Space Command probably sees the most use out of all my TVs, several hours a day, and I don't feel like I'm giving up anything to modern TVs. I really don't need Stereo/Hi-Def to watch the crap that's on TV anyways.

Don't know why a color tube would do this. However, this would happen quite a bit with b&w CRTs in older sets; it's caused by the cathode still being hot enough, and the HV filter capacitors having enough of a charge after the set was turned off, to form an electron beam (stationary in the middle of the screen, of course, because the deflection circuits were not operating at this point). This spot could burn the phosphors in the center of the CRT, which is why set owners were often advised to turn up the brightness control just before turning the set off. In any case, the spot would disappear in a few moments, after the caps discharged and/or the CRT cathode cooled.

Carmine, I think you'd like the Radarange page I put together the other day :)
Chrome!

I'm contemplating building a place, all exterior and interior circa 1963! Of course I have to have a microwave and the Radaranges didn't come out till '67, but I don't think anyone is going to be that picky about the kitchen. Now would you believe I don't own a color roundie! :dunno:

Re: Seems like old times...
 

Answering your question about the remotes first, no, I don't think so. Zenith quit using the Space Command designation for its remote control TVs some years ago; the new remotes, at least the ones I've seen recently, do not have the slogan printed anywhere on them. However, about five years ago, I saw a Zenith TV with a remote control known as the "Concierge series"; the name was probably, even likely, just an advertising gimmick as the remote was just your basic color-TV remote hand unit, nothing more and nothing less. These remotes were used with Zenith's hotel/motel TVs.

As to the console TVs in Zenith's 2004 product line, I agree with you. It does seem strange that any TV manufacturer would still be making console sets in fine wood cabinets (RCA has, or at least had, one console model in its product line a few years ago, and may still have it today). But Zenith and RCA may still be trying to convince consumers that they can build good sets, although I cannot help but wonder if those nice Zenith console cabinets have the same troublesome Goldstar chassis and CRTs in them.

The new sets in black plastic or silver-color cabinets aren't that bad looking; in fact, I think RCA/Thomson's new sets in their "diamond mist" silver color cabinets look as if they would fit in just perfectly with the decor of today's living/family rooms, and the earlier ebony-gray cabinets look fairly nice with most decors, IMO, as well. However, these sets can always be put in or on a wood entertainment center or TV stand if the appearance of the cabinet by itself is bothersome. I put my 1999 RCA XL-100 19" set on the top shelf of a modified oak utility cart, with the VCR and cable box directly below; I use the storage area at the bottom of the cabinet for storage of video tapes and such.

BTW, another poster mentioned that he doesn't need stereo sound or high-definition to watch the low-class stuff on most broadcast and cable networks. I agree. I am in no hurry whatsoever to get a high-definition TV and will not even consider it until the day comes when the local cable company has all seven Cleveland TV stations in HD (right now it only has two), the programming gets a lot better than it is now, and my old reliable CRT sets no longer work well, not necessarily in that order.

As to stereo sound: Most TVs with so-called stereo sound have two small transistor radio quality speakers at either side of or below the CRT; the sets are mostly table models, which are not nearly wide enough to provide good stereo separation--even most console "stereo" TV cabinets are not wide enough to separate the speakers enough for good stereo quality. I think the whole idea of stereo television was just an advertising gimmick to sell the then-new technology; the broadcasters, and eventually the cable networks, jumped on the bandwagon immediately, with the result that most U.S. TV networks and local affiliate stations, and almost all cable networks, now transmit MTS stereo sound.

But who's listening? I would say not very many people. Stereo television sound is a frill most viewers, except those of us with fancy-dancy home theater systems, are living without these days, and will continue to live without for years to come. The current MTS system does have its uses, however; consider the SAP system. This permits viewers to hear certain programs in Spanish. ABC telecasts its "World News Tonight" in Spanish on the SAP channel, while NBC's "Tonight Show with Jay Leno" may be heard in Spanish via this subchannel as well; the other networks may have news and other programs available in Spanish as well over the SAP subchannel--in fact, I think NBC telecasts its "Nightly News" in Spanish on this subcarrier and CBS may have one or more shows in Spanish via this service too.

Y'know Cory, if you're gonna go all out with the '60s house, you've just GOTTA have Flair in the kitchen. The Frigidaire Flair was an odd little range with a wall oven and - Works In A Drawer! Or pretty close to it...the cooktop pulled out of the wall. I've seen one up close - pretty interesting. I have a bigger pic of it on the drive - just too big to post.

And maybe one day I'll learn how to attach an image properly.

Jeff,

I hope you know I was being a little sarcastic in my "Space Command" reference. I also think those Zenith consoles are fiberboard with a printed wood veneer finish. This is an old technique that looks good and is very cost efficient.

And Charlie, I know this started out as a progress report on your two Zeniths. I guess it got hijacked along the way, but you've done a great job wedging your posts into YOUR thread.

Steve

And i thought everyone forgot all about me! :(

Well, as far as the roundie set, I went today to the parts house. They didn't have the 80/475 caps, but have ordered them for me. I got the 4/450's, and installed them, but only made some small differences. The B+ is about 50 to 60 volts too low, so I am hoping those three 80 mfd caps will correct it.

I was looking closer into the HV cage, and noticed that the flyback transformer in this thing is built like a rock! No chance of dripping wax like an RCA!

My only other wonder in the HO tube. Yeah... ya'll remember? Supposed to have the 8 pin 6DQ5, but has a 9-pin socket? So far, it APPEARS to be a factory installation of the socket. Maybe I should try looking to see if Sams listed in production changes in the index.

Can someone take a look at 939-3
 

just learned earlier that there was a production change bulletin for this chassis listed in Sams 939-3. My Sams don't go quite that high, so if anyone has it, would you look and see what the production change was related to? It sure would help if it turns out it was related to the HO tube!

Kinda funny to think that it was so long before this PCB was published... from 599 (the set the original schematic was in) all the way up to set 939... that's about 6 years.

An amazing amount of stuff being covered in this thread!

TV Audio: I would much rather be listening to my 25MC33 or CTC-5 then to one of those new black box tv's, no matter that they are stereo. Who cares, with those crappy speakers?

Zenith: Seems like I've seen mexican Zenith stuff from the 70s-maybe just the modules were made there? Seems like they were sourcing radios & b/w tvs by the mid-70s from Taiwan mostly; one Zenith radio I have from that time period was made by GoldStar so I guess it was a longstanding relationship. Towards the end there really couldn't have been much left to do in an American Tv plant, just assembling the chassis (imported from Mexico or Asia) the crt (maybe still American made) and the cabinet (likely made by another company) I'd guess that it was only the cost of shipping the heavy crt's around the world that kept many companies here as long as they were. (I gather that there are still a number of companies making new crt's in the USA)

There was an interesting history of Admiral in Radio Age a year or so ago and it made light of the troubles they had making their own color picture tubes; they never did get them right, apparently. It would be interesting to get the whole story on that one. I recall that through the 80s and early 90s whenever Consumer Reports tested tv's they mentioned a greenish cast to the pictures of Zeniths. I remember comparing them in Sears or other stores and kind of wanting the Zeniths to make the best picture but they were always the worst of the bunch. The only later model set I saw in daily use belonged to the woman my wife used to board with. The color was okay but the pincushion circuit must have been totally dead.

And as for the root of this thread: maybe the "compactron" was just used in a short run, maybe an experiment or a way to use up some stock, or just used at the end of the run?

Another note: today I stopped by the local freight salvage store. Sometimes he will have some older items in there (maybe selling for a friend) and today he has a clean System 3 Space Command console w/Zoom. $99.99. There was a time when I would have bought it but have to save room for other things.

As far as I know Zenith never used the 6JE6 (9-pin Novar tube) as a factory design...the only non-octal H.O. tubes used on Zeniths appear to be 12-pin compactron bases.

There have been times when I converted a set that used an odd ball tube to something more common to simplify replacement (and future replacement)...this may be what happened here.

zenith 29JC update
 

After several weeks of being on the back burner, i've finally got around to installing the new capacitors into this 29JC20Q. I've got all of the lytics changed, and probably just more than half of the black beauties out of there.

Things are beginning to shape up some, but I still have a good ways to go. Convergence is way off, the verticle rolls after a while, and the screen needs to be demagnatized. Audio is still lacking just a little, although it is much better than it was and the A/C hum is finally gone.

So far i have only changed a couple of tubes, while most of them I do not have. This set uses quite a few tubes that aren't as commonly seen. I have a friend here in town that probably can cover those for me.

TV reception isn't the greatest in my garage, so that doesn't help matters much, either.

While the horizontal circuits seem to be quite stable, i still need to get in there and see what kind of current is coming off the HO tube... especially since the tube I have in there is not what the book calls for. If you recall, this set is supposed to use the 8-pin 6DQ5 HO tube, but the chassis has the 9-pin socket, and I have a 6JE6 in there right now. Like i said, it seems to be working fine, but checking those voltages and currents would probably be a good idea.

Also noticed that the HV is a little low... around 21K. Book says it's supposed to be 24K. This may or may not be related to the HO tube issue. I did swap in a new 3A3, but that made no difference in the HV.

A couple of photos below show some progress.