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I'm cynical, but I gave up and had it shipped because of the weather, lack of available time, and the fact the a true accounting of costs would have made it more expensive to move myself. Still, because of my attachment to the set I was very tempted to do it myself. John |
Bakelite redux
Well, after a couple weeks the Glayzit seems to have faded a bit. I wasn't able to get it as dark as I wanted anyhow. Especially when compared to it's big brother next to it.
So, back to R&D on bakelite restoration. I'd heard that wax, like Imperial Hand Glaze, can help. I don't have any of that on hand, but I do have Old English polish and Howard's Feed 'n Wax. I tried out the OE first. Looks fantastic, but like I expected, it just doesn't penetrate the bakelite. It smears and smudges if your touch it. Next up, the Howard's. It doesn't have quite the shine as the OE, but it seems to adhere a lot better. Here's some photos. I guess time will tell. If the Howard's doesn't hold up, maybe I'll try the Imperial Glaze. I've just waxed the right-side for a comparison: http://www.bobandersen.com/images/20...tion/06-01.jpg I hope this doesn't fade! http://www.bobandersen.com/images/20...tion/06-02.jpg |
Wow, that makes it really pretty, just like new. I hope it stays that way. I've had the shine fade on me too. bakelite can be tricky sometimes. I really hate it when one whole side of something bakelite is bleached out from the sun, you wax it and it looks good for a little while and then turns back to crap. Any tips on that problem other than painting it?
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Seriously though, earlier in this thread stain was suggested and I've heard shoe polish. Then, perhaps, a coat of clear lacquer. Personally, I haven't tried any of that. I'd be more willing to try on a small radio, but I'm wary of screwing up this cabinet. Worst case scenario, It'll just be a little faded. |
Yeah, even if it is a little faded, it's even and the knobs will cover the darker areas under them. It's a gorgeous looking set.
How did I know you were gonna tell me to leave the other side in the sun:D?? Ditto on the small radio, always test on an unimportant item. Learned that lesson the hard way long ago. I have a couple of crappy printed finish sets to experiment on as well because a printed finish is on several of my nice sets that need a touch up. I'll try the stain and shoe polish on an old radio from the garage and see what happens. |
Chassis progress update
Here's a little update on the inside of this set.
I've finished re-stuffing the capacitors. My aluminum seams were a little sloppy on the base so I used some JB Weld for filler. I'll file it down and paint silver. http://www.bobandersen.com/images/20...tion/07-01.jpg http://www.bobandersen.com/images/20...tion/07-02.jpg The flyback test good, but 'sings' a little. I'm not sure if that's normal while testing or maybe the HV cap is leaky? http://www.bobandersen.com/images/20...tion/07-04.jpg The power transformer seems to be good too. http://www.bobandersen.com/images/20...tion/07-05.jpg Finally, I decided to do something about that dirty, rusty chassis. I used Naval Jelly, Q-tips. steel wool, 600 grit sandpaper and WD40. Be very careful when using steel wool to not get any bits into the electronics! http://www.bobandersen.com/images/20...tion/07-08.jpg http://www.bobandersen.com/images/20...tion/07-10.jpg http://www.bobandersen.com/images/20...tion/07-11.jpg http://www.bobandersen.com/images/20...tion/07-13.jpg http://www.bobandersen.com/images/20...tion/07-22.jpg Any suggestions on keeping that rust from coming back? Some guys paint their radio chassis with lacquer. Does that make sense here? |
If you want to be a copycat I did mine in grey hammertone.
http://audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=67156 Terry |
Clear satin enamel works too, seals it up and is not too shiny. Krylon makes a good one that sprays on really nice and smooth. Looking great Bob! Nice work on the caps too.:thmbsp:
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After the Naval Jelly, etc., treatment, I doubt the rust will come back any time soon, if you keep it in a dry place. Using the set from time to time will warm it and keep things dried out, too.
About 10 years ago, I used Naval Jelly to remove rust from scuffs & bleeding pinholes on the painted faceplate of my Hallicrafters SX-42. No signs of rust reappearing. The radio spends most of its time in our indoor storeroom, the proverbial cool, dry place. If you decide to paint it, I'd make sure the cleaned metal is clean, clean, clean, as in rinsed with lacquer thinner, denatured alchohol, or suchlike. A thin coat of primer before the paint is a good idea, too. Re Bakelite, I don't think polishes will penetrate it. I have used harsh stripper to remove factory paint from Bakelite, and it didn't penetrate (or damage) the original surface a bit. In a couple of cases, the stripped Bakelite looked so great that I left it bare rather than repaint in the original color. If you like the look of the wax, that's not a bad solution. It may hold up for quite a while, although it's a semi-permanent coating, like polishes. People who are really hooked on giving Bakelite a deep, glossy luster have applied multiple coats of hand-rubbed lacquer, just as with a wooden cabinet. I don't go for that because Bakelite things were bare when they left the factory, not coated with polish, lacquer, or anything else. My NIB Radio Receptor UHF converter has an original Bakelite finish that shines like the sun, and it is bare. Nice job on this set, by the way. Phil |
Thanks for the compliments!
Phil, that's good to hear regarding the rust not reappearing. I'm not crazy about painting it if I don't really need to. I'll think I'll leave it bare for now and keep an eye on it. I've been buffing out the bakelite periodically for the last few days and it's looking really good so far. Time will tell. |
I've also used a little 3-in-one oil on small rusty areas that may rust again. Stops it dead. Once metal rusts in one spot, that's where it will come back, it's like cancer for metal. But like you guys said, keep an eye on it and see. I don't like painting whole chassis either. Good luck on a real beauty Bob:thmbsp:
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I'm going to hold off on painting this chassis for now. I did do a little looking around for some hammertone paint over the weekend though and couldn't find any. Where did you get yours? |
Bob , the chassis looks great .
I don't think you will have a problem with the rust returning . I had a radio chassis that had rust . After it was cleaned down I put a light coat of turtle wax on it , and it still looks good . About 10 years later ... |
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I've spent a lot of time lurking in the antique radio forums. Those guys go to great lengths sometimes like replating a chassis with cadmium. Seems to me that every TV chassis I've come across has been bare steel or maybe zinc plated. |
TNX! That was about 6 months of working on that set a little at a time. It was working great for a year or so then it developed a vertical sycn problem that turn out to be a .01 mica in the output of the seperater. For some reason it only liked a mica cap there. That was another headscrater that took me awhite to figure out. I think I got the paint at Lowe's of Home Depot. I didn't have much of a choice not to paint as it was really rusty.
Terry |
Damn Terry! Great job! I love to see 'em come back from the dead like that!
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Back in the 70's I picked up the table model of that set at a hamfest for .50c Someone had done alot work to as just about all the caps where replaced and some resistor. But the set wasn't working. The horiz osc coil had gotten twisted and the leads where broken off the coil. With some fine wire and a glass I was able to get it back together and working. Used it till the mid 80's and traded it off for some. When I saw the consolette just waiting for the trashman to come and get her I just could let that happen. So into the backseat of my little Escort it went.
Terry |
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Maybe you can help me avoid the same issue. Do you recall which cap that was - C315, C402 or C??? in this schematic? Thanks! Bob |
The early 20A1 is a little different. It uses a 6AU6 Sync Sep .The later version of the 20A1 is like yours. It was the .01 on the plate of the 6AU6.
Terry |
Brass Plating
I've finally got a set of the four outer metal cover knobs, but they look pretty crappy. The brass is worn off pretty badly exposing the underlying base metal.
I picked up a Caswell brush plating kit a while ago, but didn't get very good results. My pieces came out looking too dark and coppery. That antenna is proper brass. The drawer pull and knob are my earlier attempts. http://www.bobandersen.com/images/20...tion/08-01.jpg I decided to give it one more try before giving up. So I did some homework and altered my technique. It turns out it's supposed to look crappy right after plating. You need to really buff it out. I think I had been plating it much to heavily. Here's my new technique. 1. Really, really clean the piece to be plated using Soft-Scrub, Brasso whatever it takes to get the base metal clean and shiny. 2. Stroke the item to be plated about 30 times with slow even strokes. Rotate a bit with each stroke with each stroke covering about 1/5 of the knob. Move the negative alligator clip occasionally. 3. Rinse with clean water and immediately buff out with Brasso. 4. ??? I haven't tried this yet, but my plan is to buff with my Dremel and coat with high gloss lacquer. I'll let you know how it goes. Here's a pic of before cleaning, after cleaning just prior to plating and the final finish. http://www.bobandersen.com/images/20...tion/08-03.jpg Here's a pic of a knob after plating but before buffing. http://www.bobandersen.com/images/20...tion/08-02.jpg Finally, here's a pic of all four replated knobs :yes: http://www.bobandersen.com/images/20...tion/08-09.jpg |
WOW! That looks great! I never even thought of re-plating stuff like that, I'll have to try it, I have more than a few things that could use it.
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I have replated small brass items in the past with good results. I have had some plastic knobs (that were originally chrome/silver) replated with good results. These were from a small GE tv.
If you want to replate plastic, check with the people who do automobile restorations. They can do this or point you to someone who can. |
http://www.bobandersen.com/images/20...tion/09-01.jpg
I'm currently tearing apart and reconfiguring my workshop. Should be back to working on this set soon.... |
Cool photo! :yes: John
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Updated workshop
I'm finally back in action! It was painful, but I took everything out of my workshop, installed some new shelves and selectively put equipment back in. That includes my new Hickok 615 sweep/marker gen. and EICO 315 signal gen. Too bad the Tek 465 is soo deep - it doesn't fit well on a shelf.
Finding studs in 130+ year old lathe & plaster walls is not fun :no: Especially when one isn't where it should be! http://www.jawaspot.com/smilies/angry11.gif http://www.bobandersen.com/images/20...tion/10-01.jpg http://www.bobandersen.com/images/20...tion/10-02.jpg I really hope I don't hear a horrible crash as shelves rip out from the walls http://www.jawaspot.com/smilies/pray.gif This stuff is heavy! http://www.bobandersen.com/images/20...tion/10-03.jpg Bakelite still looks good :thmbsp: http://www.bobandersen.com/images/20...tion/10-04.jpg Rust hasn't returned :thmbsp: http://www.bobandersen.com/images/20...tion/10-05.jpg |
Work resumes
The volume/focus control has felt wrong since I got this set. Now I know why. The rear volume pot&switch had separated from the wirewound focus. Luckily, all it took was threading the tabs through the slots and bending them over again. I'm really happy about that as it's a hard control to find.
My other set with this chassis has a horrible repair job where there's only a volume pot up front and the focus is now a separate control in the back where a new hole was drilled :no: If anyone has a combo 1500 wirewound (focus) + 250K (volume) + AC switch control they don't need, I'll take it of your hands :yes: http://www.bobandersen.com/images/20...tion/11-01.jpg I've found one blown cap so far. http://www.bobandersen.com/images/20...tion/11-02.jpg |
flyback question
The flyback from my 30A1 is arcing, but I know the whereabouts of an old 20X122 nearby. Would the flyback be the same for this set?
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20X122 (20X1 chassis) uses Admiral part #79C28-2 However, the Thordarson substitute is the same for both - FLY-1. I checked my Admiral schematics and the listed resistance values for the two flybacks are within about 10%. So, they're not identical but close. I'd hazard a guess that it would work OK. Please tell me you're not going to trash a nice 20X122 just for it's flyback... |
Over the last year I've tried Glayzit and various oils and waxes. They all faded over time :tears:
Also, note the weird discolored area. I think that's from years of candles. I found traces of fragrant wax on the cabinet when I got it. Since I had my wet sanding supplies out for another project, I decided to give it shot. http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4100/...a126a32f_z.jpg I'm using 800, 1000, 1500, 2000, 2500 and 3000 grits. http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4118/...2a79f597_z.jpg It's looking better already. I probably could have gotten more scratches out if I had been more aggressive, but I was concerned about damaging the hard outer surface. http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4115/...eab94a7c_z.jpg Next, I buffed it with Novus #2 and Simichrome metal polish. Much better :yes: http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4099/...981d35f5_b.jpg The stain is just about gone too. http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4136/...31f3c20a_b.jpg Now I just need to do the rest of the cabinet :drool: |
Wow, you do such great work on those bakelite cabinets! It makes me wish I had more bakelite around here to polish. I've been told my Zenith H724 is actually plastic, but it could use a good shining either way. Man... looking back on those pictures at the beginning of your thread of that other 20X122 hurt my feelings! It reminds me of the bakelite record player I had arrive in the same condition from a seller on Ebay who packed it in nothing but newspaper and an oversized box...
On another note, I'm sort of debating on what route to go on my Zenith tv's control panel and I noticed you used the Caswell's brass plating stuff. I haven't heard much discussion about how to restore those plated metal parts and it made me wonder if that would be a practical approach on something as large as a control panel. Looking at my panel itself, it looks like it was a nice polished brass color on the front, but inside the pencil box door it's more rough as if it were overspray. That led me to think they used some sort of spray-on technique at the factory. |
Thanks. I try not to think about that smashed 20X122. Sanding and buffing the top was easy and the sides should be too. It's the front I'm not so sure about. Maybe I should get one of those buffing wheel attachments for a drill and some buffing compounds :scratch2:
The item biggest I've tried to plate is the brass bezel on a Philco Mystery Control - about 6" in diameter. It came out a little uneven so I think that's pushing the limit of the Caswell kit. |
Getting back to your main chassis metal, and as what to do with it. I just very lightly, and unevenly, dust a coat of rust-o-leum aluminum spray paint over the repaired areas. I mean dust, not cover. It gives the impression of cad plating, and stops further corrosion. Sometimes I tone it down with a cotton ball moistened in lacquer thinner, dabbing at the paint to age, dull, or blotch it, so it blends with the rest of the chassis. The idea is not to make it perfect. It works, and easy to undo and try again.:smoke:
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I made a New Year's resolution to wrap up unfinished projects before starting any new ones. So after a long hiatus, I'm finally going to finish this set!
Here's the rusty power transformer. I used a wire brush to remove most of it. Then, I brushed some satin Rustoleum black enamel on the sides and sprayed the top with gloss engine enamel. http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7021/6...09da986d_z.jpg http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7003/6...e36223aa_z.jpg |
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Looking forward to this continuation now that your 26R12 is done... |
I shipped a set just like that one from California to the Mid west. I bought it from a Satinist in Santa Monica. (very strange guy) It arrived without dammage. For sure the one I sent was packed well. I took it all apart and shipped it in three boxes. I was shocked to see your set like that but not surprised to hear that UPS did the shipping or in this case drop shipping. I've had similar experiences like yours where the seller did the packing and shipping fortunately none arrive as badly as your did. My Avatar, the Emerson 612 was shipped from Maryland by UPS and when it arrived the cabinet was pretty well broken. I had to dig the parts out of the bottom of the box full of peanuts. That was an intereresing situation as the seller would not ship or pack. I called a local handy man and asked him to pick up the set and take it to UPS which he did for a small fee. Even UPS can't be guarenteed to pack a set well but if they pack and you purchase the insurance at least you can get your money back. If the seller packs and there's no insurance your basically SOL.
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Wow, I had to go back and read all that. I think I restored my 20A1 chassis back in 95 or 96. :scratch2: It was my first and only old TV for many years. Back then it was just me and a copy of Kiver-Television And F-M Servicing (perfect book for learning that set by the way). I don't even think ARF had the TV forum back then? I was really taken up with 1920's radio's for a long time, then it was 1930’s radio…But I've had very fond memories of getting that first TV going since way back then...
Anyhow, I've got you beat on not finishing up projects. That same 20A1 chassis has been setting under plastic in my basement waiting for the cabinet to get finished all these years. :o Way back when, I had to patch some chips in the Bakelite cabinet with an epoxy and Bakelite powder mix, so I wanted to make sure the epoxy was good and cured before I tried polishing out the finish. To be honest I've been scared of how it's going to turn out, so I've just procrastinated over the situation all these years. I have a mild attention deficit thing going on that doesn't help matters, and it's just really easy to keep jumping to the latest and greatest project. So congratulations on getting back on this set. I'm sure you'll breeze right through it now with all the experience you've achieved since back in 2009. :thmbsp: |
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I can get good color correction on bakelite with minwax red mahogany stain and elbow grease. |
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I've restored a couple 20A1 chassis and they're the best of the late 40s Admiral designs IMHO. The use of two chassis gave them plenty of room for extras like dual rectified power supply buses and stagger tuned IF. Single chassis designs like this 20X1 use the audio output tube as a voltage divider for the second B+ rail and an over-coupled IF circuit. That gives you a more pronounced double-humped response rather than a plateau. This is the 3rd 20X1 I've restored in the last few months, so yeah, it's very familiar territory now :) I have a little recapping left to do in the IF circuits then reinstall the power transformer, yoke and focus coil. I expect to power it up in a couple days - work permitting. Those few yellow caps on the left are from when I started a few years ago. I think I'll swap them out for matching white Cornell Dubilier caps. http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7035/6...a56f67f4_b.jpg Quote:
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I was really amazed at the picture quality on the 20A1. Silly me aligned it using an Eico 360, because that's the sweeper Kiver featured in his 1949 edition book. I can't really recommend that unit. :D
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