I think someone at Westinghouse corporate made a very seriously bad decission back when this set was developed. The decission to scrap this color tube design and get out of color back then very likely allowed RCA to continue monopolizing the color market with roundies for years to come.

If Westinghouse had stayed the course they very likely could have taken the lead away form RCA back then, or at least prospered greatly from design royalties from this tube design.

I think it is likely that the developement of rectangular color crt's was delayed for years, while other manufacturers waited for the design patents that Westinghouse no doubt had on this tube, to expire.

What a major strategic error Westinghouse made back then to drop the production of this color tube.

The pictures you posted are nothing short of astounding Steve. FANTASTIC JOB!

Wow Steve! Amazing work and such perfect purity! I agree! If Westinghouse stuck with it they would have revolutionized the color CRT early on!

Westinghouse probably made the best decision they could at the time. Between the tooling /setup charges at Corning Glass for an all new panel and funnel plus expenses tooling up the CRT plant, it would have been cost prohibitive. Apparently CBS-Hytron was months behind Westinghouse in development and was not yet in a position to share any tooling cost. Also, demand for color sets was low at the time due to lack of programming and there were high costs in purchasing and maintaining color sets. And if it is true that these tubes had to go through a overnight exhaust cycle (a typical cycle at the time was probably no more than three hours) it tells me that rejects were high, life test was poor, and CRT engineering could foresee no easy way to solve these problems, thus putting the cost per good tube out of sight. I have been in CRT engineering for over 36 years and have been in this same position. Believe me. It's no fun. I guess that's why they call it work.

Akent36,

I think that both you and John Folsom addressed the reasons that Westinghouse didn't persue futher developement of this tube quite accurately. Perhaps the right tube at the wrong time sums it up. The other factor that comes to mind is the long term reliability of this tube. While Steve K. has done a remarkable job in solving most of the convergence and purity problems, I wonder how this receiver and it's circuits, tuner, as well as the rectangular tube stood up as a daily watcher back in the 50's. Powered up for several hours each day for months may reveal short comings in picture quality and a very unhappy viewer dealing with multiple service calls. In this regard. Most of these 22" sets may have had a short life span. Westinghouse certainly would have known this very quickly and discontinued production and promotion of these sets in short order. While all early color sets required fairly frequent maintenance, the Westinghouse may have been even lower in reliability, over time, then most. I don't suggest putting this to the test. Keeping these sets in good, low hour, operating condition as long as possible should be the goal here.

-Steve .

I'm glad it all worked out the way it did. Think about it... had the 22" rectangular tube become the standard at that time, there would be far fewer interesting roundies. This would likely make it very difficult for us to find 21AXP's, CYP's and maybe FBP's today. It's also possible that FBP's and FJP's might have not come into existence as we know today. The 21AXP's and CYP's could have turned out to be as hard to find and a 15" round tube. Being that roundies would be so few and far between, many of us here on VK would not be today.

So, I'm glad it worked out the way it did. :)

And to think I was impressed when the Sears Tower opened!

Now we know that with few exceptions the early color sets did a fantastic job.

Now if I could just rent a time machine to go back and buy a few and bring them home.

Here is finally an update on the Westinghouse. I fixed the video smear problem and did a basic IF alignment (after I had to buy a new scope).

I might have discovered the major problem with these sets. As seen in my earlier posts, the color and convergence is really very good. However, a few days ago I suddenly lost purity. The only way to get a good pure red, blue, or green screen was to pull the yoke all the way back, just the opposite of normal. As I was messing around with it the purity popped back in. After discussing this issue with John Folsom we decided that this may be due to the shadow mask distorting. Darn. If anyone knows what else could cause this please let me know. I have tested eveything else I could think of.

I have added some more pictures. some of which show it in the cabinet. The purity is bad now. I will add a few more pictures when it flips back.

Steve

Shadow mask distorting?? Can you go into a little more detail Steve?

John refered to it as "oilcanning". I'm not sure if that is just what he calls it or not but it means that the mask can pop in and out at the center.

Steve

What video had you been running when the purity "popped" and what did you then run until it popped back? If it is the shadow mask, it seems like it must be some really sudden movement due to thermal expansion and "oil-canning." This is the first I have heard of a tube popping out of purity suddenly. Usually overheating causes "doming", a gradual loss of purity in a bright area like the white patch on composite color bars.

Wayne:

I had the cross-hatch pattern on from the NTSC generator. I really want it to be something else but I don't know what it could be. When I first got it working I adjusted purity the normal was, yoke back, center red, etc. Thenk when it went bad I could only get a red screen with the yoke all the way back. I get good color in the middle 12 inches or so of the screen but off colors all around. I just tried it a few minutes ago and it came up good for about 5 minutes then went ouot.

Steve

Wow... that would be one hell of a tube defect! Seems if it was indeed due to heat, seems like the set would have to cool back down before the mask would pop back into the original position. Was this something that showed up only after putting everything back into the cabinet? If it happens more often while in the cabinet and less often or none at all while out of the cabinet, then it would certainly be something heat related.

In # 17 you said it has a field neutralizing coil - maybe that's the problem - either losing all current or something shorting and putting in too much

I know we have all said it..but WOW even with the "oil can" just seeing this set ALIVE is about as close the the holy grail as you can get!

Hi Steve,

the purity on the photos still looks good. There are some minor tinted spots in the corners, but IMHO they are acceptable with such a special set.

I had shadow mask troubles with the early A63-11X. One tube had a bended mask, and it was impossible to get a good purity. If the left part of the screen was clean, the right part of the screen had changed colors and so on.

The GE Porta-color crackles inside the CRT when the shadow mask is warming up.

IMHO your observed fault depends on the mounting brackets of the shadow mask inside the CRT. The CRT was not used for decades. With a rigid restraint of the shadow mask, it is not possible to get a good purity all the time. Mounting brackets and shadow mask need some compliance, otherwise the shadow mask will be tilted with warming up. IMHO the interaction of the mask and the mounting brackets is not well balanced. This could be due to the long time of quiet. I suggest tests with further operating of the tube with low beam current for 15 minutes, with normal beam current for ten minutes, and if you do not get significant results, with high current for five minutes. What are the results? Perhaps these data might more isolate the problems.

This is the procedure which I run for CRTs with bad purity.

Question to the others: is this a suitable way of testing or is there a chance of an irreparable damage of the CRT?

Kind regards,
Eckhard

I am hoping it's the field neutralizing current. Was the crosshatch white lines on black background? That should not cause enough heating to make the mask change.

I agree on the field neutralizing circuit. If it's the shadow mask, then temperature should affect it. Have you tried putting a big fan behind the set to cool it down, and see if the mask pops back into shape? I've seen a 40" Mitsubishi CRT do that, although it had been clobbered (loosened the mask from it's mounts, or something). as the set warmed up, you'd hear "Boi-oi-oi-oingggg", and the purity went to heck. You could also give it the fist in front, and it would look like a stone thrown in still water with color ripples.

That Westinghouse got slammed around in a rough ride in my TV room in '94, and nearly fell off where it was sitting. I found it wedged between the wall and a console set, and it had been shaken up pretty badly. A couple of the knobs that fell off, got under a file cabinet and were crushed. If the mask is dislodged, blame the Northridge Quake :( .

Did (present owner) give you the correct volume knob? I don't remember seeing it on the set last time I was at his place...

Charles

I have seen set's that the purity will go out when the contrast is set to high or on a bright white screen at normal settings.
Someone told me the electrons where hitting the shadow mask with a lot of force and it was moving the mask enough to mess up the purity.
Double check the high voltage and the crt screen settings. Then try turning down the contrast to a point where you can just see the red and see if the problem goes away.
Still that is one cool set you have and I hope you find the problem.
Ed

Wayne:

I bypass the neutralization coil and it has no effect.

Ed:

I was just playing with it and if I turn the contrast all the way down it is OK (but not perfect). Just increasing it a little throws off purity. I still have the problem with yoke position however. My screen settings should be OK. I will check HV again but it is not easy with the chassis sitting flat on the bench. The odd thing is is that I didn't have these problems originally and I don't know what I could have done to mess it up. What a piece of junk ;-)

Steve

I have five porta color set's and all of them make a weird metal moving noise inside the crt when the high voltage comes up. It is vary strange, But there is no problem with the purity.
Ed

I don't think you did anything to mess it up, It is just a old tv with problems.
Could something be wrong with the yoke other than the position of it?

Steve, perhaps the issues you are experiencing are some of the very same ones that Westinghouse faced when they decided to pull these sets from the sales floors so many years ago. Too bad we can't go back in time as flies on the wall to see exactly what the Westinghouse engineers were scratching their heads about.

When jr tech gets his done maybe we will learn more? Seems like if it was a big problem back when they were new, somewhere it would be documented.

I remember our early 70s GE color console TV when I was a kid would pop and bang all the time; I guessed the grounding spring or maybe the crt shield. I don't think I ever heard another set make such mechanical noises-never noticed a purity problem, though I was pretty young.

This will likely sound a bit far-fetched, but it's just a thought and could be worth something...

This 22" CRT you're dealing with... is the gun assembly in any way similar to a roundie? If so, would it be possible to remove the tube and stick a 21FBP in there (of course it won't mount on the chassis... perhaps make something like a test jig) to produce a picture? If it would, it's safe to assume you wouldn't be able to get a good picture, but if you could get anything at all, you could run it for a while and monitor whether or not there are any sudden changes. If while running a round tube, there's a sudden change in the color or purity (and naturally it's assumed you wouldn't get perfect purity with a roundie to begin with), the sudden changes on a round tube would probably reassure that your issue is on the chassis itself instead of the 22" CRT. If there aren't any sudden changes as you've described before, then you could lean more towards the 22" CRT being the problem.

Like I said... kinda far fetched... but ya never know without asking.

Charlie:

I like your idea. The guns are the same as a 21 inch round tube. The problem is that I really do not want to risk pulling the CRT out. It is not my set and if I break the CRT I am in big trouble! If it were mine I would definitely try that. Unfortunately I can not just pull the deflection and convergence yokes (to put on another tube) either as they are soldered in.

Steve

Ahhh... well... just a thought. Maybe after some more thought, someone can come up with a way to pull this off without taking a chance on having an "oops" on our hands. :)

Well, mine does not "pop" and change purity and never has... but when I got it in the early 80s it was pretty dim (and it is not getting any better with age :tears:), so the beam current is probably nowhere close to what you are getting. The only thing noted by the original owner was the need to tweek the convergence as the set warmed up. He usually just turned it on a half hour or so before he wanted to watch it.

Is the HV stable on your set?

jr

Crack-HISSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!


(I won't even joke)....

Seriously, how about a set of extend-O-cables? I probably have them, including the anode lead. Is the yoke removable without removing the tube? I can't remember.

Charles

Any old test jig, even rectangular, should work to a degree, right? Sometimes I wish I kept intact my roundie test jig, but of course it took up as much space as a typical set. Better to just use the cables.

Any test jig would work but the problem is that all the wires to the yoke and convergence yoke are hardwired in, they do not plug in. I do not want to try to unsolder everything especially on the convergence panel which is very hart to get to in the first place.

Steve

that could be a real pain, to unsolder all the yoke and convergence wires.... some nice set though!

About the portacolor noises....i just switched mine on and couldn't hear this. Strange. My favorite is the crackle of the yoke absorbing all the static from the neck when a crt is switched off.....oh and BTW, "This Tube Employs INTEGRAL Implosion Protection....Do Not Adjust Your Set!" :D

Well I think that I am going to call it a day with this set. I have an OK picture. Still some purity issues but the convergence is good. I put it back together and took the following pictures. Some of the pictures have curvy lines that are from the camera and not on the screen.

The sad thing now is that I have to return it to its owner.

Steve

Steve,

I think current owner should be very proud to show off this TV, and extremely pleased with your work. I think you have done a fantastic job on the set. And its little purity issues can be looked on as features! Too bad it cannot stay at you house.

Maybe current owner will let you work on one of the many other interesting sets he has.....

---.

You are right, Andy. But current owner has a house FULL of vintage TVs, and virtually none of 'em work! Where is the fun in that?

Steve,

That receiver could be a daily watcher. Exceptional photos and the convergence is really tight.
Nice job. Don't hurt yourself getting it back into the owner's home.

-Steve D.

Great Job Steve! And I thought I had persistance.....You are a marathon runner and I am a sprinter compared to you.

Wonderful to see this opperating. So neat; so rare!

Awesome job well done! When's moving day? I might have to volunteer... If it's going back where it was, is it going to be tilted & squeezed between the house & the bushes to the back yard, then in the patio door? If not, it'll have to go overhead through the front! Oh boy; the thought of it alone...... Also, Steve, maybe you should thank me for still not having delivered a huge 27" Magnavox comobo that (Westinghouse owner) asked me to temporarily stick in a garage at a house in Chatsworth... (Oops, let me sneak that over and stick it in that room before you get the chance to put the Westinghouse back :D )


I've restored or repaired a dozen or two of his favorites, including his DuMont 30" Royal Sovereign, and a CTC-5, and odds & ends. He's into the design and the period of time that the TVs represent to him. He was in high school in the early 60s, and was very fascinated with color TV. He approached me in the early 1980s trying to find a 50s color set, but wound up buying a Magnavox 21" roundie combo in the late 80s, which started his collection. He still has his parents' Motorola 23EGP22 color set too. His interest expanded into other TV sets later on, especially when I was moving to a smaller place, and he bought 100 or so sets from my collection, including several 15" color sets, this Westinghouse, and some 19" CBS sets, etc. He actually has a dozen or so of my sets at his house, which I don't have room for, and he's keeping them in good shape for me. He's a very true collector, and has absolutely no profiteering motives in buying vintage TVs, as (sadly) some "collectors" have been known to do in the past. He's never sold a TV set whatsoever, in the 25 years I've known him.

Charles

That is just an awesome set. Very interesting read here.