LOL!!.....I been to that club TWICE now. I'll go back sometime when I need another good ass-kickin' :-P

I love the little 1030, and the one I have has not been opened yet. I saw no reason to so far. It's smaller than the rest of the little TR sets, so I'm sorta afraid to ever open it.

I have a 1020 that also just needed some soldering touched up before it would keep a full raster. Works great....but I need to find a battery cover and it's magnifier. ALL the little TR set's have different magnifiers....not interchangeable.

does your 1030 work? and how good compared to the 1010 would you say it is.

The TR-1030p is electronically superior to the previous models, but it folds into a 3 sided square that is held together by a 10 pin soldered connector at the end of a very similar ribbon cable.

No, I'm pretty sure my CT-101 uses a 12VDC Wall Wart, & has a conventional round tip... I've got a couple of those WEIRD Sony FD-535 "Not Trinitron" 5" color sets w/FM radios, & they use 13.8 VDC wall warts-Try findin' one of THOSE...

interesting, but i thought you never took the 1030 apart. or were you talking about the 1020, all these 10s , whew, confusing,lol.:scratch2:

Aibo said that he never took the TR-1030p apart. I have taken every model in the Travelvision line apart, and I have several parts units.

oh ok i got a brain fart.....lol...... well whats the deal with the 1010 and the loss of verticle, no one seems to know and 8 out of 10 have the same problem.

Have you checked the Yoke to see if any of the coils are open? Loss of vertical is usually a bad cap, or an open trace on the circuit board - are you sure that all the caps are good?

i changed all the electrolytic caps and did check the yoke.

Well, the next thing would be to use a scope and check waveforms, but you probably do not have 1, and neither do I - I do not do the kind of extensive work on electronics that require the expense of purchasing a scope.

ok well ill put it aside for now then. all i can think of what might be left thats wrong is a poly cap, tantaum cap.

If I remember correctly, the SAMS manuals have a troubleshooting section for each symptom - does it give a list of parts to check for loss of vertical?

no the schematic i have dont list anything for troubleshooting and its not sams thats probably why. i forgot to add that there is no voltage at a 200v poly cap,either side, nor is there any voltage at the damper diode which there should be it has hv but who knows.

Yes Sandy....I did say all the "TR" sets are the same wall wart. The CT-101 is not a TR set.

I can't really speak for the TR sets that are not 1010,1020 or 1030 though. I don't have the very first one from like the early 70's (TR-001).....or the first of the 80's sets (TR-1000). I've never seen a chance to get these two sets...but at this point, I'm not sure I want those now after the horror of trying (and making MUCH worse) to fix two 1010s now.

I'm the one who never took the 1030 to bits. This set showed up FLAWLESS and works that way too.....so no reason for me to give it my REVERSE Midas touch. I love working on all the small sets, but no longer EVER look forward to taking one of these apart again.

I was lucky to fix my FIRST little 1010 just once when it lost vertical (would work when you squeezed the case). It was just crappy soldering.

I fixed the 1020 when it first showed up. It ALSO had dodgy traces.

I do remember that I saw a big electrolytic in the 1010 that was all on it's own, and did replace it, but really for no other reason than it was easy and I had no idea what that cap does all on it's own like that.

Well, I am out of ideas. Try doing point to point continuity on each trace to see if there is an open circuit somewhere. Good luck.

The Tr-1000p uses the same AC adapter as all the other models, except that it has an adjustable switch on it for 110v / 220v for worldwide use. The CT-101 uses a standard barrel connector 12v output. The TR-001 uses a completely different adapter with a special 3-pin connector.

i did attempt point to point continuity but proved to be extremly difficult due to both sides have traces and they will change over from front to back. but i could go back at some point and try again. oh and the white paint on the board has traces under that and cant see which way they go. boy they are still getting even how many years later,lol,lol.......

Hi Timmy,

Here is the zoomed section of the TR-1010P's vertical scan section.

From reading the posts above, i understand that you don't have an oscilloscope, correct?

Have a friend, a contact at work or a neighbour that would have a scope?

Personally, i would try the following method:
V Scan energy is at 60 Hz. As power is needed to deflect the beam it generates a quite powerful magnetic field.

Do you have a telephone amplifier with a pickup coil?
do you have a small audio Amp, i'm thinking of a 1W battery powered amp with a small speaker?

My idea is to use a makeshift system with a pickup coil and an amplifier, placing the coil next to the TR-1010's deflection yoke and listening for a strong 60 cycle hum.

As the CRT shows a flat line (no V Scan) i suspect that you will not pickup a strong 60 Hz signal, but the gadget can help you while poking around in the V section, maybe you have a cut trace, bad deflection yoke connector, dry solder joint, or even a bad new capacitor.

Just a Rube Goldberg device, but it's helped me out frequently.

I used a tel pickup coil + a small cased Amp i found at Radio Shack (years ago).

Good luck!

Best Regards

jhalphen
Paris/France

hello jhalphen, now thats interesting and 60hz i didnt know. this seems like such a common problem with these tvs and im surprised that no where on the web someone found out what it is. solder joints , traces, caps, hmm i dont know. i recapped the deflection board and got the same result, line across the screen. its so frustrating to know what its lacking, the verticle signal, but cannot find it. it could be one of those smd chip capacitors on the bottom but if i knew which one thats responsible for the signal timing i would go and change it and hope for the best.

Hi Timmy,

I pulled from the Web the spec sheet on the AN5760, the Vertical processor & output chip of the TR-1010P. It's clipped to this message.

Alas, there is a standard fault with a given model of TV. There are a fair amount of elecrolytic caps - i counted 7 in the Panasonic application note and as you said you had changed all the electrolytics, i would carefully go over each and check that one was not mounted with the + & - terminals reversed. In tight circuitry or when tired, even trained technicians sometimes make mistakes.

Of course a new Cap mais sometimes be bad but if yours are from a reputable brand, Panasonic, Nichicon,... this very seldom happens.

If you like repairing electronics, an ESR capacitor checker would be a valuable tool to have. ESR stands for Effective Series Resistance. The great advantage of this type of checker is that you can check electrolytic Caps in-circuit without desoldering them - a phenomenal time-saver when troubleshooting.

With an ESR meter you can check electrolytics from 1µF to the sky.
Under 1µ & non-electrolytic caps, the meter is useless.

to buy one, search a reputable test gear dealer such as this one:
http://www.tequipment.net/index.html

Other members may suggest a brand/model they like.

Best Regards

jhalphen
Paris/France

well that is one thing i did do and check the polarity, the neg of the caps is the half circle on the board so i ruled that out thank i didnt make a mistake. its just that what i did and checked seems not to be whats wrong and that im overlooking what it really is. but yes its really tight in there to work on. i did change both ics vert and horiz.

Hi Timmy,

Don't get discouraged! i discussed with a fellow VK member & friend about your TR-1010 ailments and we both think that you probably have a cut trace on the printed circuit board.

Get the chassis under a really strong light, use a magnifying glass and very carefully inspect the PCB around the vertical processor IC.

When i do this, i use a paper printout of the board's trace layout + an Ohm meter with a "beep" function - it beeps if you put the 2 test leads in contact to indicate zero Ohms = perfect continuity.

I put one end of the test lead at the start of a PCB track and the other one at its end. If the trace is not cut, the meter beeps.

Good luck,

jhalphen
Paris/France

well that is amazing for you to say because i just started to do just that but have not found anything yet but i will keep on it . i have a fluke dvom with the diode beep that i have been using if the trace follows to the end from start it beeps. well ill have to look for a halogen light,lol really bright and im using a magnafying glass with the small double magnafier in it. ok, ill keep you posted when i find this headache, and thanks again for the verticle scan.

Hi Timmy,

OK, you're going to win!

Be methodical: i use a yellow felt pen to overline on the paper printout the traces already checked.

Saves your memory from remembering "did i already do this one or not"
Especially if interrupted by a phone call/doorbell ring during the process.

Keep a soldering iron handy to reflow any non-perfect - possibly suspicious solder joints at the ends of each PCB trace.

If so, reflow, then check again with the beeper for A-OK continuity.

Hang in there!

Best Regards

jhalphen
Paris/France

i did notice that 2 what i think are chip caps off the vert ic have like corrosion and to fix that is very hard because they are hard to hold and maybe this is where the problem is and i dont know if this corrosion could kill the connection but ill have to try and get them off and resolder. there are no caps that leaked near where these 2 @$#%%$%^4 tv,lol,lol... could it be possible that one of these chip caps are bad if its one responsible for the verticle timing. i dont know if smd components chips are known to go bad even if they have many years on them.

well i am trying but i am just about out of options i cannot find whats wrong with this set. and you see these little sets with the same problem and i just cant believe i cannot find any repair info on this horizontal line problem with these tvs on the web , not one thing comes up in regard to the tr101p. there must be someone out there that has mastered this nasty little problem. its strange when i got it it had no hv nothing on screen but found a bad rectifier for the focus voltage and replaced it and got full hv and focus voltage but was left with the line across the screen. checked the schematic and the loss of this voltage would not have affected any other part of the circuit. so its still a mystery.

Did any of the old caps have signs of leakage? I restored my JVC P100 and it was littered with bad caps, and a number of them leaked, taking traces with them. I've seen Panasonic capacitors leak, especially in audio gear such as their micro series components.

Take your time, go through each trace on the schematic and if you have a board layout as well, using a highlighter and you'll likely find the issue sooner than later.

Good luck

i went over the traces and it could very well be a flyback but really dont know for sure. as far as caps leaking, no it dont appear any leaked besides i changed all the caps on the deflection board.

well it looks like this tv is for parts because i done everything possible to find whats wrong. i think the fly may be bad or a part of it inside because i checked every resistor both chip and threw hole and whats amazing to me is every resistor was right on even the chip resistors. the damper diode only has b+ voltage on it, 4.8 volts and that dont seem right. so for now is going on the side because im out of things to check.

Hi Timmy,

No, the flyback is good: you have EHT and a bright trace across the screen, therefore it works.

SMD resistors and capacitors can go bad just like any other component.

OK:
1) reflow solder pads on these corrosion-suspect SMDs
2) check trace continuity with Ohm Meter afterwards.

Show us some closeup photos of the suspected corrosion contacts.

If you choose to remove these SMD caps, do you have a capacitance meter?

Check the vertical winding on the deflection yoke. You have the service manual, locate the pins going to the V coils & check for continuity with an Ohm Meter.

On the vertical deflection IC: use your digital VOM to measure voltages on each of the IC's pins vs ground. Compare with the pin-per-pin voltages on the Panasonic service manual.

If really fed-up: send the TV to Andy in TX, he will fix it for you.

Best Regards

jhalphen
Paris/France

OK:
1) reflow solder pads on these corrosion-suspect SMDs
2) check trace continuity with Ohm Meter afterwards.hi, ok heres where im at i did check the ohms on the yoke even though the schematic dont say what it should be it looks ok the ohms are lower then the other coil which i know they vary between vert and horiz coils. and the corroded look to one of the chip caps i did reflow and did check continuity everywhere. i actually checked every resistor and all check very good and i did remove a few key chip caps and subbed one at a time to see if anything changes on the screen, but nothing i do is making and progress. i notice using my dvom on diode check that one lead on ground and i touch the other to pin 4 on the vert ic the screen jumps like it wants to fill the screen. so it seems to me there is a problem in the sawtooth gen that creates the oscilliations to make the vert work but i dont know where else to go from here. it does seem like a timing cap of sorts that may be bad but i just dont know. it is very difficult to really take these chip caps off and sub another really unless i have the exact one to put back in, and leave in and call that cap changed being the right one. all voltages on both ics are where they should be with the exception of pin 6 on the vert ic which is 4.8 volts and should be 2 volts maybe because the vert is not under load, working... also what puzzles me is the line across the screen is not completly across, it starts on one side and stops about an 1/8 befor the other side. i dont know if using ceramic disc caps as subs would be the same as the chip caps that are in there, but i tried. but if it must be the chip type well then maybe ill have to try and get all these chip caps that are in question.

Check the vertical winding on the deflection yoke. You have the service manual, locate the pins going to the V coils & check for continuity with an Ohm Meter....

On the vertical deflection IC: use your digital VOM to measure voltages on each of the IC's pins vs ground. Compare with the pin-per-pin voltages on the Panasonic service manual.

If really fed-up: send the TV to Andy in TX, he will fix it for you.

Best Regards

jhalphen
Paris/France[/QUOTE]

I would like to just give Timmy a lot of credit for putting all this time and energy in trying to get this TV working again - most of us would have given up with less than 1/4 the effort that he put in - I myself gave up after the ribbon cable tore. Even though these TV's look simple, they are actually very complex and they are very poorly built from a servicing and component quality level standpoint.

We have all had pieces of equipment that were so challenging that the basic "IT or ME" instinct kicks in and forces us to NOT want to let it beat us.

At this point, I suggest that you purchase another cheap TR-1010p with similar problems and apply all that you have learned to make a fresh start.

Good luck.

PS:

Andy is excellent, and I am sure that he could fix it, but these TVs are a dime a dozen, and the main purpose is for Timmy to have the satisfaction and pride of repairing it himself.

Yeah, unless its the 1969-70 version, or the 1984 Color version, these l'il guys ain't exactly rare...And if one or 2 "Give Their Lives" for the purpose of education, well, its not ALL lost then...Another thing, these ARE getting on towards 30 yrs old...I doubt if they were designed to last that long...Even the color version I don't think was sposed to live this long, if you go by the flimsiness of its cabinet... At least Sony made their KV-4000 series w/a metal cabinet, & they just SEEM a lot more robust...

i did get another 1010 and may try a fresh start. i also have 2 1020 that had problems with the verticle and were both in the ribbon and they work great now after putting jumpers in the ribbon.

I wanted one of those Panasonics for a long time but hearing about all the problems maybe I will pass. I do have the Sony Watchman sets and they seem to be holding up well. Even the ribon cables seem to be strong. I can definitely recommend the FD-20. It is a great performing nicely built set.

Hi Timmy,

I think you're close: have a real hard look at the 1000pf cap between pins 4 and 5 of the AN5760, maybe it's a trivial as a bad GND on pin 5

To help: closeups of the block diagram + application note schematic of the AN5760.

Last document is a high-zoom of the TR-1010P's schematic showing the AN5760.

Timmy, i don't know what the DC voltage on pin 6 should be but it is the output of the V amp power section driving the deflection coils and the Pana manual specifies 10V peak-to-peak. A VOM reading is meaningless here, the only way to measure this is to see the sawtooth on a Scope (borrow one?)

Hope this helps...

Hi Sandy:
My experience on many of the Panasonic TR-series 1.5" micro-TVs:
TR-1030/1031 always work - built in the second half of the 80s

TR-1010/TR-1020 - before 1984 - a lot of failures, mainly V Scan, no sound, dead or very unsensitive tuners.

Exceptions: TR-1000 nearly always work - better caps!
TR-001, same thing - 1972!

CT-101 shoddy plastics: look at them, they break!
Not really Panny's fault but the people who made the plastics. When new in 1984-1987 they weren't brittle.

Just my 2 Cents....

Best Regards

jhalphen
Paris/France

Why is the circuitry on these handheld sets so complex? One would think that given the small size, simpler designs would be easier to build and service plus be more reliable.

These were designed and built in the 1980's when SMD components were just getting started - they really were a marvel of engineering, compactness and even simplicity compared to what was previously available. By the time that the TR-1030p series came out, they already reduced the amount of components considerably - and both sets did exactly the same thing. These are 30 years old - comparable technology in today's world make them look very complex. If they redesigned the same set today, it would most likely contain 1 or 2 VLSI chips and a few discreet components plus push-button switches for Power, Volume and Tuning.
.

i forgot to mention when i first got this set the focus diode was bad and its a BB21 and i cant get any info for a replacement so maybe this has something to do with it. i used another diode from a b@w set but much bigger but i got it to fit . it may be wrong for this app i dont know.

ok, heres what i did. i kind of put that little set in a box for another day or a parts set because i got another 1010p from ebay and this one had the same problem. this one had leaky caps and it took 2 days but it works now after changing 4 caps and placing jumper wires from trace to component. this was extremly difficult having to do this using a magnafier. i notice when the trace corrodes it kind of becomes a resistor so a jumper is then needed. but with the other set it never had any caps that leaked and didnt have to put jumpers so i really dont know to this day what is wrong so i may just hold it for parts. the difference between the 2 sets was that the one i cant seem to fix had the line across the screen but it was not to the other end but the set i fixed the line was from left to right all the way. so the fact that the set where the line didnt make it all the way to the other side kind of tells me something different was going on besides verticle sweep. so now i know 100% whats involved in fixing these and it dont seem to matter if the caps leaked or not or changing all the caps nothing i did on this worked. maybe i have to look for the 101 color this time.