Thanks i appreciate it. sounds like i am missing something, there is nothing clipped to the convergence board

I kept digging, and finally found some shots from my Curtis Mathes. The magnet in question here is the item closest to the base cap... has a spring on the bottom, and the magnet is on the opposite side... that stick standing up with the blue ink on the end of it. Note the wire on the bracket... it will go up to the convergence board and clip on there... or soldered.

some have a wire soldered on it and some dont.doesnt matter,they are interchangable.purity rings.i have 1 or 2 i ll send you if you need one

Ron your a life saver and man;s man. A man who would not be afraid of a combo, no matter how large.

an update:.


Have the chassis out and going through it thoroughly, all three wax caps in this set were bad. And so far all three electrolytics were bad. Surprisingly, the one e cap, had a reading of 80uf, instead of the marked 50uf. I would assume when they got older they would drift lower.

My capitance meter is well worth the $16 i paid for it. Started yesterday checking resistors. ONmy digital multimeter, one reads 1, all all settings for ohms, does that mean it's shorted?

Believe that means open. To be sure, set your meter on continuity check....if it beeps for a complete connection, it's shorted.

if that 16$ cap tester is a modern DMM type then i would say its pretty much useless for vintage cap testing. look up you tube vintage cap tester, lots of good info.

Dave is right... the digital tester is giving you a reading of the cap's value... but not while under a load. No load, or just a light load, you can easily end up with a reading that looks to be okay... when really, it isn't. With a vintage tester, you can test the cap under similar conditions that it would be in the TV chassis.

cap tester is for checking film cap after they have been pulled.

Multimeter is for ohms/resistors

That's why i'm recapping the whole chassis

why are you checking them after pulling if you are not intending to use them? (whats the point in testing for value)

recapping the whole chassis is a big waste time and likely to create problems.

Most caps on the set from that era will be fine.

The correct procedure is to check to see if it works as is (keeping an eye on the power supply caps). If that ok and you feel the need you can change the cans, although they have a good chance of being ok. a vintage cap tester would help in that analysis, the thing you got will not.

After the check out IF there are problems you can use a vintage cap tester and with some understanding of how things work you can quickly isolate the area, check the cap, replace and be done without needless work.

But yet u upload videos showing FILM caps in sets that have gone bad. Dude at my age, i don't have the time or desire to learn tv repair theory

right... after I diagnose the problem. Look if you want to just replace them its your set if that make you happy go for it.

and be ready to foul it up in the process.

What is the aversion to replacing caps? I'm not following this.

because you will likely mess it up, wholesale replacement of caps by a newb will likely introduce more problems than it will fix. I feel I am wasting my time with this so like I said if it make you happy by all means do it. If you make a mistake it is MUCH harder to correct, even for those of us that have a clue about how tv's work, so get that solder wick out and go nutz.

sorry if that come across abrasive, I just don't like having to defend my logic to someone that self identifies as have little knowledge and is not really interested in learning from what I tell them.

Just asked a question, no need to go off the deep end. And i'm not ashamed or embarassed to say i don't know what i'm doing. Would be an asshole if i pretended i did.

not of the deep end what ever that means just frustrated when I try to tell newbs how to do things and it get ignored, no prob have fun :thmbsp:

in case you missed how to do things mean this

recapping the whole chassis is a big waste time and likely to create problems.

Most caps on the set from that era will be fine.

The correct procedure is to check to see if it works as is (keeping an eye on the power supply caps). If that ok and you feel the need you can change the cans, although they have a good chance of being ok. a vintage cap tester would help in that analysis, the thing you got will not.

After the check out IF there are problems you can use a vintage cap tester and with some understanding of how things work you can quickly isolate the area, check the cap, replace and be done without needless work.


and you dont need to learn a lot if a problem surfaces, that's why you come here. Now if you replace every cap in the set and then come here with a problem... well it becomes much more difficult to help you.

Not ignoring you, you obviously know what your doing.

nice retort.:thumbsdn:

what retort????? lol


I'm glad u saw that though.

okay guys... let's just both have a beer and get back to our soldering guns. No more needs to be said here.

yea that was real classy :yes:

and u were being extremely over the top abrasive and rude. Despite the fact that you were probably right.

i myself,could never see recapping the entire chassis.but joe has boundless energy plus lots of caps to use!go for it joe.i never had that much drive to recap the entire set.i think you will be just fine.while you are doing this,you are learning.we all could use for knowledge,even us old timers!

Your acting as if u told me not to recap the set a week ago and i went and di it anyway.
I'm learning. And then u jump on my shit over work i have already done. Then tell me i'm ignoring you.

I'll take your advice, but really, i didn't ask for your advice, and quite frankly with your attitude, don;t need to hear a word from you.

gentlemen,relax!takes a lot of energy to do a full recap.your a better man than i,joe.dave is an allright guy and is concerned your project.he actually cares about this operation.good man.i applaud your drive and determination and i applaud daves advice and willingness to share his knowledge.having said this,both of you can tell me to f--k off!

well at least if i screw this up, u got that extra chassis. Then I'll tell that guy from fla that thanks to my extreme skills my recap bought the set back to life.

But don't tell him ok.

I am in the camp of not changing every last capacitor in tv's and old radios.... As a early tv tech this is what I can say about caps.... Old paper/foil & Wax caps were the best of the time.... High voltage placed across two large rolls of foil insulated by an oily wax paper will eventually break down, dry out, and allow current to flow from one layer of foil to the next..... Problem for testing is that current may only flow at 100Volts or more..... 50 volts or more.... 200v or more..... Are they better now.... In some respects yes.... But circuits are not the same today..... Some design parameters are different, and what was common in 1966, may be a harder to find item today....

Now some caps like the big filter caps in the power supply have a nice large current supply available, so they may get hot, they may boil, and then explode..... They are the most common caps that will go bad, and most older ones made in 1959 or earlier should probably be changed for safety....

Other smaller caps can be fine, or may become leaky.... Some specific types, or brands may have a history of being bad..... Some companies may have had a habit of using lower quality stuff, like RCA, there is a lot written here about how a lot of zenith stuff outlasts rca's stuff in the cap, and picture tube departments....

Cap testing falls into two parts. Testing for value, and testing for breakdown at working, or rated working voltage. For testing at working voltage you need a tester like this one:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Heathkit-IT-...item4d108c603f

You need an old one, where the tester has the ability to put 300v across a cap rated at 250v and be sure it is not going to break down....

ESR testers are useful for power supply filter caps as well, and can tell if you are going to have a potential bad cap in the future.....

http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Capacito...item258174ca27

Wikipedia has a little on the topic of esr's in caps...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrolytic_capacitor

Why not change all caps just to do it...? Caps have a lot of parameters that have to be matched for the circuit they are going into. For old radios and tv's temperature stability is important, high voltage rating too. Have you looked at all the factors to pick a good choice to replace every cap in your tv ? Are you that good an engineer to do that ? Are you that good at tv work not to make a mistake in replacing them ? Are you sure the new cap will not immediately introduce a problem you have not already got that will be almost impossible to find because you "know that new cap is good"? Are you replacing all the caps while the tv or radio has a problem you have not fixed first.... ? This is a sure way to give yourself your original problem plus new ones.... Look at all the problem threads here that begin with "I got this picture rolling problem after recapping my set...."

There are lots of notes here about known bad cap types, and caps used in specific circuit areas that should be changed, others are most likely best left alone....

There was a basic capacitor test that use to be done with an ohm meter..... The old type, analog non digital type. If you put the probes across the cap, the meter needle would jump up part or full scale, then go back towards infinity...... Then you do it again after waiting a half a minute, if the cap has little to no leakage the meter should not jump up quite as high, presuming the good cap did not loose much of its charge.... Generally a very leaky or shorted cap was a little easier to spot that way. Older analog meters had much less resistance than newer digital meters and the cap actually used a little current to charge, good for electrolytic caps..... You don't get that with the digital meters.....

Digital meters that test caps for value do it by checking to see how fast the plates charge, that corresponds to a value, there are other ways too, but this is done at low voltages, and low currents.... And will not show faults, just values.

On testing caps.... A capacitor gets is value based on how long it takes a steady current source to charge the two opposing plated on the cap.. Larger plate area would give a larger value..... Given that, while a carbon resistor, or wire resistor can change value up or down, I don't think anyone has ever seen a 50uf cap change to a 80uf cap. (for this value to actually happen, someone would have to add foil to each of the two plates...) As a cap dries out it can change resistance, or "open" lowering value..... But increasing value I pretty much think is impossible.... In this case, knowing how caps of that size are made, and how they behave, and in this specific case, knowing the test instrument most likely cost less than the replacement cap. I would say that meter was at fault. An easy way to check your test equipment it to test it against a few components that are known good, at the extremes, and center of what the meter is known to be able to test. 100uf to 30pf for example. use 3 caps at those ends, and one in the middle.

In each case while testing anything, there is some "expectation" of what you may get, outside of that, you have to wonder about readings you get on cheap testers...... Any testers for that matter....

squirrel, i wish somebody had told me that a few weeks ago.

I know this is not the first time I wrote about not changing every last cap in a post, and in one where you were also in on the conversation......

Anyway live and learn......

Don't recall that at all. But feel free to continue with the admonishment.

Satellite boy; I'm happy for all the new-bees that begin this hobby. for each of you that starts, it means it will continue. I don't want to see anyone do things that are unnecessary, or will cause them more trouble. For the amount of time you have been in this, you have done and tackled much more than I have at that time of involvement.

Many times you have said "I don't have the time to become a tv repairman to get this stuff done" And I have said "this is the hobby you chose" At times you need to just slow down a little, and learn a little more before you jump into doing something that may cause you some problems that can be avoided. I think your enthusiasm is great! I don't want to see you discouraged trying to fix something because a lot of people just say "recap it all" and you end up with more problems. I'm not against you at all.

I think your collection is also fantastic, and if you tackle only a few small things one at a time, you will have a full line of some great sets...

I'm learning as i go along, but apparently not fast enough. 8 weeks ago? I recapped a set with electrolytics backwards. How's that for stupid?

As far as future projects, i now know that film caps to not need to be replaced en masse. I'll use that info in the future.

But the problem with most of u is, u expect noobs to learn in 2 months what may in some cases have taken u years.


and another thing, where are there stickies on this board talking about tv repair 101. Instead of assuming people now how to read a schematic.


But not to worry. I'm a quick learner, I learned fta satellite tech and installations on my own in one year. I can tell you right now, the two fta satellite dealers/installers in my state don't know half of what i know. And the quality of their installations are terrible.

Ron has an extra working chassis for the rca roundie combo, if it doesn;t work i'm covered.

I have never called anyone stupid, and have tried to explain my point in detail in many cases, given my level of writing quality.

I agree with you 100% there should be quality tv repair 101 stickies here. Unfortunately, it does not exist, and some times better answers exist off this site, and there is the added disconnect that new people doing stuff alone with no one watching over them.

And in a lot of cases if you want to find something here you are better off using google to find it than the search from the site.

I don't expect new people to know everything in 2 months.... I may often write using terms they, or you, don't fully understand, fine ask again differently. New people like you also should not take on things that are above their full understanding right away.

My very first tv was a 1959 emerson b&w tv thrown out on junk day back in 1974.... I don't have it anymore, but I have 2 exactly like it. They all plus another chassis I got had bad filter caps. The set I got as a kid had a tilted yoke, and a short picture. I had army tv radio books from my dad, that had pictures of the problems and where to fix them. I was so unwilling to make it worse that I watched that tv with a short tilted picture for 9 years.....

Looks like you are the opposite.

You don't have to learn quick to impress anyone, just enjoy your hobby. And understand the people here mean well even if they don't always express it well...

so at least we agree on one thing, as far as basic information for a noob on tv repair 101, this site sucks ass.

1 article from doug, a very good one in fact, but clearly not for a beginner.


also, directing me to an ebay auction for an item that is for parts or not working, doesn't help me.

Well this site is made up of a lot of people who already have a good amount of knowledge. And the people here are not teachers. And the people here have their favorite brands, and a lot of interest in specific years of sets. You can agree with this or disagree, that is what is here and available to all of us.

Doug has a very good youtube channel, he is very knowledgeable too. There are a few sites set up by people here that are also very good.

Youtube has a few good tutorials on basic electronics, and a few good troubleshooting videos too..... I watched a few of this guys stuff and I like the way he presents stuff.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3EjmCWmarwE

But he is not the only one, and a lot of his stuff does not apply here, but the one above is good for us too.

I assume you watched the one I posted about rectifiers and filter capacitors a while back.... Full wave and half wave rectifiers and basically why they have a filter capacitor on them.....

Great idea, but nobody's ever written one. That, and there are so many opinions on the subject.....they run the gamut from restuffing the old caps no matter what the set is, to component diagnosis, to testing each individual cap, to wholesale cap replacement before even plugging it into the wall.

I am of the latter. I replace every cap in the set with a higher WV before I even plug it in, if the set is older than 1960....and everything but the electrolytics before the first power up (unless the set was stored badly) in everything post 1960. Maybe it's not the way that some prefer doing it, but it's worked well for me for many years.

these should be part of a tv 101 subsection

http://www.pickguardian.com/pickguar...ee%20Chart.pdf


http://www.resistorguide.com/resistor-color-code/


There should be an article. "tv repair for morons"


You should put lazy people like squirrel on double secret academic probation, and alert his local draft board that he is available for active duty.