Hi Timmy,
Having read through this thread so far, I have a few questions. Bear in mind I have never worked on a Pilot set.
Does a Pilot have a crt/ neck shield? The Sylvania 400 scope I finished repairing last month needed one to help center the spot. It had to be properly rotated.
You mentioned at the very beginning of the thread that the speaker had been changed. Where was the old field coil remounted?
Improper shielding and odd magnetic fields can shift your whole image. With such a small crt image it is easy to deflect it without any noticable change in picture linearity.
Just ideas,:scratch2:
Ed

Timmy,
One more thing you might check. Are your deflection electrode connections are on the correct crt pins. You stated that someone else had repaired the set, I believe.
Ed

yes I checked all the deflection wires and made sure they were where they are to be.
No it don't take a shield on the crt and the speaker field coil is still being used with the new permanent magnet speaker I just tack welded the field coil to the back of the new speaker and its in the same spot as befor but I can set in some type of shield to see if it makes any difference. And I subbed all the tubes mentioned. It really seems like low hv.

Well got a few more things to look at like the b+ I'm thinking maybe it's to high causing problems somewhere I just don't know. I have read 100 volts, 109 volts, but mine is up there over 125 volts being the line voltage is higher now then it was in 1948 although the pilot says 117- 120 volts but sometimes 122- 123 is the norm now. There is a 33 ohm resistor just after the ac plug that measures 28 ohms so I think I'm going to try a 50 ohm and see if anything improves. I read threads where some pilots were only giving 90 volts and they worked and then placing a diode across the positive tube to raise the b+ to Alittle over a 100 volts. The other day the b+ was 135 volts depending what comes down the line wire. I don't know if excessive voltage could do what this set is doing but it's worth a try. These sets are not bright to begin with but it would be nice to have a full screen. I got rid of the speaker field coil and replaced it with a 150 ohm resistor thinking as another member mentioned that it may be causing emf interference at the crt because the speaker is new but I thought I needed the coil and it was setting on top of the chassis so it's gone now.

Bear in mind this set isn't supposed to fill the entire face of the tube, there should be a blank space on top and bottom that's covered by the mask.
If you're trying to fill the entire tube face it might just bee too much for the circuitry to handle.

Well the verticle size pot is maxed and there is to much missing on the bottom so there must be something else going on. There is so much missing that the mask won't hide it. Even trying to balance it with the verticle center there is still some missing.

Does anyone know of another way to check hv on this pilot using a regular 0-42 kv hv tester that does work maybe using resistors or a microwave resistor in some configuring way because I do think the hv is low as everything else checks out perfect. They say you cannot use a tester like I have due to high impedance. There must be a way I have nothing else except an analog meter that only goes to 1 kv and even that meter don't go to 1 kv to say that the hv is infact low because my meter should pin if more the 1000 volts.

Ok so I'm about done with this but I have to ask , anyone that has a pilot tv is the vert size maxed to one side and is the vert center almost maxed to one side and at the top and bottom where there is Alittle of the picture missing does the bottom part have what looks like the image is compressed upward because it won't go down anymore because the size pot is maxed? Because this is what I'm left with I'm sure the pots should not be maxed to try to get the screen right there is not much swing towards the bottom and the image should certainly not be pushed up when it belongs on the bottom.

..... The image that you are getting right now: how bright is it and how sharp is it and how much greyscale definition is it???

I'm not that comfortable with the thought that the problem is principally related to low HV...

Now, if you have swapped out the CRT and have the same result, you know the issue is in the chassis vertical section. Two thoughts if you haven't done so already: try swapping out the tubes in the vertical section. If no change I'd Think outside the box and try changing capacities of caps in the vertical sweep. And I'd begin with mica's..... Yes I know you've checked stuff 30+ times visually, but there is something fairly basic going on and you should have confidence in and start trusting your gut. Ask me how many times I've worked my ass out of goofy, arcane weird problems in both radio and television restoration work like this. Something not visually obvious is off. Most likely a capacitor. Check each cap you replaced. I've run into plenty of perfectly good looking new caps that were bad. And as for micas--- I have little faith in originals anymore. Just sayin'... And of course take a break and have a nice drink (a good Bombay martini is my fav and never failed to appropriately clear my brain for serious thinking) and the problem will just whack you right in the face. You're very close. This is not a huge issue. Just think you're looking under the wrong slimy rock (like all of us have on occasion...) :)

For a "fer instance" last fall I bought a Predicta from a guy who spent forever trying to figure out a (vertical) double image issue. I put it on the bench and after verifying everything was "visually " correct determined the vertical oscillator was just running too fast. I really didn't give a rats ass why -- everything "checked out" so I just changed the resistance to the hold circuit and the problem corrected itself. After over 5 months it's running like a Swiss watch. Just go with your gut and use your experience!!! It's something easy...

George

I noticed you said in post #7 that Ceramic Disc caps were used, if those are the high voltage caps in the vertical circuit then that's probably your problem.

Discs will work in the horizontal but not the vertical, they will cause linearity problems.

I thought maybe a cap but I desoldered the caps in and around the verticle and checked then for the proper nf and they were off by maybe, 1-2 numbers not enough to cause this. And yes I tried different cap values and resistor values and nothing works. The sound is perfect and the picture is sharp and clear. I did adjust the hv at the 1b3 and the variable cap and the pic is brighter but all I have is the 3kp1 green cry and they are not bright so maybe the hv is good but the verticle is not. I've seen verticle like this befor with the bottom line looking compressed. So both crts same thing. There are no Micas in this verticle only in the horiz and they are new . I subbed a .02 with a 20 pf mica no change but I think the .05 caps are the ones that are responsible for what it lacks so even thought the .05 caps check good under load they could be changing value. Could this be a sync sep problem

Yes it did have ceramics in the deflection but I took them out and put asc caps but that was not the problem so here is an update. I believe these 2 caps were integrator caps, 2 -.05 caps and I have a tester and they tested good so I left them then decided to take one out at a time and sub well the SAMs shows .05 caps belong there in the schematic but listed in the parts shows unless I looked at it wrong .005 so I don't know. Anyway I put .033 for one .05 and the other .47 and it fixed it perfect although I tried it the other way and didnt work then switched them back and it's done finally. The .47 went between v13 and v14 and the .33 from v13 to the 120 k below it. Here are befor and after pics.

Ok here's the befor . Ok I won't let me put it up again it's on page 2 the way it was.

Will a 3fp7 crt work in the pilot tv if wired to the set, anything has got to be better and brighter then the green?

P-7 is a long persistance yellow excited by a short persistance blue (like one might use in a radar display tube) It will look terrible in a tv application. Green P-1 looks much better and does not have the smeared appearance.

jr

Here is a video that Bandersen shot... near the end of the video is a P-7 jug.
Although it is out of focus, you can clearly se the undesirable effect produced by the long persistance yellow of P-7 phosphor. A blue filter that does not pass yellow light could help, but IMHO, will not look vvery good.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=crBqt606qOg

jr

Is this tube brighter and it wouldn't be any better then the green as I thought anything other then green has got to be somewhat better.

You're basically there Tim. Hold out for a P4 CRT and you should be good to go. Just adjust down your height to fill the mask!

George

I don't think I'll ever find a p4 it will be impossible. So if I tried a 3kp7 and used the 3rd anode or not will I get a picture because they say that a yellow or blue filter can be used because the green sucks its dim after all it is only 3 inch so I read to use the other anode for either fast or slow so I can't find anything that says it will work. I did see that tube with a clear picture but it was really small. If that anode was used then would I have to run a wire from the 1b3 output to the anode ? It is clear but not bright even the other crt I have is not bright but it is green .

The 3KP7 has an identical pinout as the 3KP4. No need to run any additional wires.

The only concern will be persistence to the phosphor. If will likely be objectionable.

Ok so I'm looking into the hv and I find that the 2 - 2.7 Meg resistors right off the focus pot gets hot and the hotter it gets the dimmer the screen gets. I checked the pot and it's good which is 2 Meg while at the same time has good focus.

Ok the focus resistors had to be 2 watt, so I was able to measure 1 kv, that's it off the rec tube. Riders shows it should be around 2500 volts so I went and checked the ohms on the hv oscillator coil and it was nothing like SAMs shows, could be a mistake but anyway I went and added a .0068 cap in series with the variable capacitor on the side of the hv cage and it's brighter and with the meter I have was able to determine that I'm getting 1700 volts now so maybe that adjustable cap is bad, I don't know. It is brighter but it's still lacking the proper hv. Got the right caps in there resistors checked again pots checked voltages there is nothing else as I find I'm going over everything over and over and not finding anything wrong. If that adjustable cap is bad and I just brought the value closer to what it should be then that's fine but what is the right value to get at least 2300 volts and keep it at a fixed value and just eliminate that adjustable one.