Which SAMs are you referring to, 55 16 or the other SAMs. I was measuring the b+ from the positive to the negative I don't see where it shows pin 5 is 82 Vdc the only place I'm getting 82 Vdc is on pin 6 of v11 to common negative. Ok I see what you mean but pin 6 has b+ on it to neg is only 82vdc and should be 125 Vdc but the SAMs shows zero on pin 6 but the other SAMs says 120 Vdc. B+ is on the audio tube and v11 pin 6 . I'm just trying to figure out which SAMs to go by.

Yes, 0 on pin 6 with respect to pin 6. See the cross symbol next to the '0V' on the chart ?

What that means is but the negative lead of your meter on pin 6, not the common negative while taking that reading. So naturally when you also put the positive lead of your meter on pin 6, you will get 0 volts.

I think looking at the contrast control is the easiest way to tell.

The early TS-4J is just a standard three terminal pot.
The TS-4J late has two extra taps and several capacitors mounted on the pot.

Ok the contrast tells, it's early. So if I am to put meter neg on pin 6 then what is positive ? Because positive to pin 6 comes right from b+ Capacitor positive. Well the SAMs, early shows infact pin 6 has 120 Vdc on it so pin 6 to negative should be that of 120 Vdc but it don't . The other SAMs shows zero volts checking the way it says. It don't show any other negative to use, no stars or marks on the SAMs which I would think it's common , on the early SAMs.

Use Sams 55-16 then. Forget about using pin 6 for reference - that was only for Sams 71-12.

All voltages in Sams 55-16 are with respect to common.

Now that you have the correct service info, go through and check all the voltages and try to narrow down the problem.

The contrast control matches mine with the 55-16 SAMs so yes now I'll go over it now that I have something to reference, and thanks for finding these SAMs. I really curious what could pull the b+ down from 125 Vdc to 82 Vdc sometimes 90 Vdc.

Ok I checked resistance on tubes v 2,4,6,10,11,13 all are good except v6 video output tube pins 2,3,4 should have 2k,11.5ohm,7ohm but I am getting on all 2,3 4, between 60 and 100 ohms there are differences between the 3 but amounts are high for the 7ohm and the 11.5 ohm but to low for the 2 k . :scratch2: the resistance numbers match the later SAMs yet the contrast is different so I'm using the ts4j late, 71 12.

I don't know but would heater voltages reflect on the drop in b+ , I ask because I can't seem to get the right ohms readings from several tubes on this set using both ts4j early and late prints along with the ts18 print all show close to the same ohms reading but I'm getting totally different readings so with the b+ down between 82-90 Vdc from 125 Vdc I'm wondering if something affecting the heater voltages if this may affect the b+ . While the 6al5 pin3 7 ohms I'm getting 22 ohms and pin 4 1 ohm I'm getting 16 ohms. V6 pin 3 11.5 ohms I'm getting 22 ohms and pin 4 , 7 ohms I'm getting 18 ohms this don't seem right yet the voltages are ok on v, 2,4,10,11,13,6. It don't make sense that b+ is so low there should be something obvious but I'm not finding it. Any help would be great at this point.

Are all tubes, including the CRT plugged in when you are making the ohms measurment? How are the ohms readings on v9 (12SN7) and v12 (12SN7)? Pins 7&8 are the heaters on the 12SN7s.

jr

Keep in mind that the resistance of tube filament is temperature dependent. I really doubt that is the source of your problem.

Keep in mind what Tom posted earlier. B+ is created by the balance of several tubes. If it's off then either the tubes supplying current are not passing enough or the tubes drawing current are sinking too much. That could be caused by the tubes being bad or they are not biased correctly. Try swapping tube and check the voltages on them.

Yes crt plugged in and the 2 -12sn7s, 18and16 ohms pin 8 pin 7 16and 10 ohms. The clipper is 18 ohms and 16 ohms.

I already checked voltages on the tubes that are supplied by b+ and they are good this is why it's baffling to me and I did try other tubes,6sl7, 12sn7s, 25l6 even checked resistances of the ballast.

The tubes that supply the B+, not the tubes that are supplied by B+.

B+ is created by the drop across several tubes from the B++ supply.

V1 6AG5 RF AMP
V3 6AG5 3RD IF
V7 6AU6 LIMITER
V11B 12S7 CLIPPER

Ok I changed the clipper tube and the b+ came up to Alittle over 100 Vdc and the verticle is good now but I'll try v,1,3,7 I tried others and I already tried v,2,4 6 .

Ok now I tried 1,3,7 , different tubes the only one I got a positive result change from was v1 now the voltage is Alittle over 109 Vdc so that's a big improvement and the verticle is good and solid now so I'll leave it at this point. Thanks for the help guys.

:thmbsp: I'm glad it's working better now.