Thanks Bob, it feels good to know I don't need to hunt for a good CRT. Eventually I'll want to pick up a spare for the Westy, but I have time yet.

It's funny you mentioned re-necking: the tube has a very obvious, some might say ugly looking, neck weld. Dave noticed it immediately. Either a QC failure, or the grand father of all Coloramas.

I'm guessing a later rebuild; there are four very small (a triad or two) regions of messed up phosphors. There's also a long black human hair caught between the dot plate and the front of the tube, but that would have to be from the initial stages of manufacture, no? She ain't pretty, but a like-NOS tube is like hitting the lottery. I can live with the occasional dead dot.

Of course I wasn't really too concerned, just being a smarty pants tonight. :thmbsp:

No problemo; I have a difficult time recognizing sarcasm/jokes.

On another note, I feel incredibly stupid about the swirling pattern on tube. It is not a phosphor defect; it is a defect in the front glass of the tube. At my parents home, there are two ceiling sockets in the main room of the basement, each with a pair of 300 watt lightbulbs. The table that the chassis is on is sitting maybe a foot "behind" the ceiling fixture. The light from the lamp was coming in at such an angle so as to strike an aberration in the glass near top right of the screen and then reflect that onto the bottom left of the screen. When I held the log paper up to it earlier, I wasn't seeing the distortion of the pattern itself but rather the shadow and mistaking it for the distortion (my eyesight isn't so great).

TL;DR The phosphor is fine, the front of the tube has some bubbling that created the weird pattern. In a normally lit room there should be no problem.

Great news about the CRT tests. Hopeing for the best.

Houston, we have (something approximating) a raster!
 

I decided to bring the chassis up on a Variac again to see what if anything I could get. That's when I noticed that the filament of the third 5U4 wasn't glowing. I could have sworn I checked all the 5U4s when I did the first check, but I must have missed one.

Anyway, I inserted a replacement, and was greeted by an angry sounding horizontal section and fireworks show in one of the 3A3s, along with an extremely faint pulsating raster. I replaced it, but not without knocking myself on my ass from the residual HV first, and was greeted by a very bright, stable squished raster.

In the photo, you'll see a slight light blue glow on the inside surface of the neck. I believe this is NOT gas, but rather stray electrons striking the inside of the glass. This is a normal phenomenon, and most beam power tubes and vacuum rectifiers exhibit this, at least when new.

It ain't purty, but it proves that the set is restorable and more importantly, the the 15GP22 has some life in it yet.

Something is FUBAR in the vertical section, but given that I haven't recapped the set yet, this isn't surprising. I'll let Nick deal with it when the chassis gets to Maryland.

Needless to say, I'm ecstatic. :banana: :banana: :banana:

Electrons striking inside of glass?

https://preview.ibb.co/b80KOG/20171104_175205.jpg

First feeble pulsating raster (bad 3A3):

https://preview.ibb.co/jUrFxb/20171104_173516.jpg
https://preview.ibb.co/kaxzOG/20171104_175155.jpg

Much brighter raster with the new 3A3 and healthier HV:

https://preview.ibb.co/k6jkxb/20171104_180539.jpg
https://preview.ibb.co/bvtHAw/20171104_180543.jpg

Yeah baby!
Don't you love seeing that!

Congrats. Not too many of those left making light on the front end...

Thanks! I hope to see your 21-CT-55 lighting up shortly... that's a set I'm truly envious of. Superior wideband chroma demod without the pain in the ass 15GP22 to deal with. That's a winner in my book.

I've determined that I don't have vertical sweep at all, the focus was just messed up. I can now get it sharply focused down to three unconverged lines (not that I'll run it like that). All three guns are fine; using the built in gun killing switches on the back shows normal results.

I've also determined why I don't have vertical deflection; the cathode connection on the 6AH4 is either open, or the tube is stone dead. It doesn't deflect the meter on my Hickok at all, even at 12.6 volts on the filament. I've ordered a new Westinghouse branded 6AH4, and also a 6BL7 for the vertical convergence and color killer. The 6BL7 is very weak. I'll see if that helps. I'd like to be know that the vertical is semi-operational before the set goes to Nick. I'll feel better knowing that all of the major parts are working correctly.

Patience and you will get there. Good sign on the CRT.

I am gathering up tubes to send along with the chassis when Nick restores it. The cascode RF amp is listed as either a 6BQ7A or a 6BZ7. I know they're interchangeable, but I'd like to know which should give a better noise factor. I plan on taking the set up to Sault Ste. Marie to DX some Canadian analog repeaters once it's working properly. I just have to see it working the way it would have in 1954 with a proper antenna etc.

The other, more troublesome, tubes are in the chroma. The service manual lists the R-Y and B-Y demod tubes as being either type 6AS6 or 6DB6. It also specifically states to only replace with the type shipped with the reciever. I have no clue what was in the set originally. Am I correct in assuming that one could stick either tube type in, perform an alignment of the chroma sub chassis, and be fine?

Any guidance is much appreciated...

Ben,

I assume you've checked the cabinet tube chart if available. And also the Sams which I'm including here. Hope this helps.

-Steve D.

The tube chart in the cabinet lists both types unfortunately, with neither scratched out. It also lists 3A3 or 1B3 for the HV rectifiers, but has 1B3 scratched out.

I'll look at the Sam's closer. Thanks Steve.

Ben, Sorry. Should have included the Sams top view tube chart. Notice they have the 1B3 & the 6AS6 listed as well as the 6BZ7. Who knows?

-Steve D.

IIRC, Sam's bought the sets they used for the Photofacts, either that or they were lent them, in any case. I'm going to assume the my set was built with the more common 6AS6, just as the Sam's set apparently had. My set does have 3A3s where the Sam's shows 1B3s... who the hell knows?

I'll try both the 6BZ7 and the 6BQ7A; they are slightly different according to the GE manual, but close enough to assume that either will work.

One quick way to find which tube is better would be to check introduction dates...Often the newer interchangeable type was an improved version of the older one.

This was actually a great idea Tom. I looked up the 6BQ7, 6BQ7A, and 6BZ7 intro dates. The 6BQ7 came first with a mu of 35 per section. Then came the 6BZ7 with a mu of 38 and lower noise. RCA promptly retooled the 6BQ7A to match the noise figure of the 6BZ7 and upped the mu of each section to 39. The 6BK7 and 6DJ8 can also sub in parallel heater circuits, both offering an improvement over the 6BZ7/6BQ7A in a cascode arrangement. Then along came the Nuvistor and the rest is history.

Regarding 6DB6 vs. 6AS6, since the schematic says either and doesn't show any alternative circuitry, I think it's safe to assume that the only differences are small ones that might skew the alignment a bit, as you said.

Getting so much better all the time!
 

Reminds me of that Beatles tune... "...getting so much better all the time!"

Vertical is back, and the vertical and horizontal dynamic convergence circuits are semi-operational. I may end up starting the recap myself instead of waiting to send it to Nick. It's a good portion of the way there already and I've only replaced a couple of caps.

https://thumb.ibb.co/jHiShb/20171109_110728.jpg https://thumb.ibb.co/m9bPTG/20171109_110745.jpg https://thumb.ibb.co/bTfwaw/20171109_110808.jpg

"WOW-ZERS!" LOOK AT ALL THE COLOR! Getting better all the time, is right! So enjoy the progress reports, this set is going to display an excellent picture, when all is said and done!

We second that. Hopeing for the best.

As long as you don’t leave me with a mess to clean up, I won’t complain...

I have six new Westinghouse "Reliatron" 6DB6s and one 6BZ7 on their way to Michigan. I guess that answers the 6AS6/6DB6 and 6BZ7/6BQ7A questions.

Pulled and cleaned more of the tubes. To my suprise, the set has more than likely spent some time in Canada. There were a couple of Rogers branded tubes, one Marconi branded tube, and one Electrohome tube, all with mid-to-late 1950s datecodes.

The transformer on this thing is massive, as are the filter chokes, and they run very, very cool. 25 Hz chokes perhaps? Given the area it was found in it wouldn't be surprising.

There was a guy, Robert S. outside of Toronto trying to sell a H840CK15 back in 2000. I passed on it at the time and never heard what happened. I know he was trying to sell it for quite some time. Perhaps this is that set?

Darryl

Dwight found this set in Buffalo, NY, and according to Dwight, the guy he bought it from obtained it from the original owner who used the set to teach color television repair for either a trade school or a Westinghouse program to teach their own techs in house.

I can't imagine the set being the same one that was for sale in the Toronto area, but anything is possible. There was recently (within the past few years) a Westinghouse H840CK15 listed on Toronto Kijiji. I don't recall the set selling, but it was complete and supposedly had a good CRT. Perhaps that was the set from Robert?

EDIT:

My set is most definitely not the set from Robert S. in Ontario. His set had a developmental CRT (the C73599 proto-15GP22) according to Marlin Mackley's site. This set has a production 15GP22 from the 13th week of 1954.

Marlin's site also mentions that the Wingham museum in Ontario has one with a 25 Hz tranny and 25 Hz chokes. Interesting.

I like to have advertisements for my sets to frame and put near them. I found a number of rather aesthetically pleasing advertisements (Westinghouse ran one hell of a national ad blitz in March of '54), but I also stumbled upon a neat article from January of 1954 showing a Westinghouse H840CK15 prototype and RCA Model 5, as well as articles on Westinghouse color CRT development/manufacturing circa 1954/1955.

Also included is an ad for the lost 19 inch Westinghouse color set, model H890CKU19.

https://preview.ibb.co/kJVJCm/20171115_120354.jpg
https://preview.ibb.co/fs7yCm/20171115_120535.jpg
https://image.ibb.co/gpDuk6/20171115_120815.jpg
https://preview.ibb.co/kxu0Q6/20171115_115841.jpg
https://preview.ibb.co/kzDuk6/20171115_120729.jpg
https://preview.ibb.co/fO3S56/20171115_120640.jpg
https://image.ibb.co/gKO5sm/20171115_120909.jpg
https://preview.ibb.co/icK0Q6/20171115_120438.jpg

This last Chicago Tribune ad was used in most major cities, with just the name of the city and the copy about the local dealer switched out.

The ad for the lost 19 incher:
https://preview.ibb.co/fHBmyR/20171115_123849.jpg

I't looks like a 15" set with a bigger CRT installed. If there was anyone with a good spare 19"* CRT and a 15" westy with a lousy mask and dead 15G it would make for an interesting project trying to convert it to be a 19" set.

*(assuming the 19" they were using is the up scaled 15GP22 electronics magazines of the day mentioned)

I'm quite certain that the jug used was the 19VP22. They mentioned in the dealer sheet for the set that the phosphors were directly deposited on the face of the jug.

I suppose the set could have used the DuMont type 19TP22, which had the CBS style directly deposited phosphors with a 15G style gun. But since the set hasn't turned up, and a DuMont 19TP22 hasn't surfaced, it's all academic.

My folks bought me a new vertical convergence transformer as one of my Christmas gifts, so I'm one step part closer to a working Westy. I have to thank John Folsom for winding them, or having them wound, as well.

Interesting that first article talks about the RCA and Westinghouse having different sized screens, 14 and 12-1/2 inches respectively. Did these sets not both use the 15GP22 (or comparable prototype CRT)?

Just a confused mix of different manufacturers PR. Both had 12 1/2 inch pictures, but some press releases stated the over-all tube size. Where 14 came from (instead of 15) I have no idea.

I just measured the phosphored viewing area of my 15GP22 and it is approximately 11.1 x 8.2 inches, which is very similar to a 12 1/2" Admiral (10.75 x 8.5 inches) and a 12 1/2" RCA (11 x 8.5 inches) so I think that it is accurate to characterize the picture as similar to a 12-1/2 set.

The opening of the double d mask surrounding the 15GP22 is about 12.3 x 10.2 inches.

The glass front panel of the 15GP22 about 14.7 inches diameter and the largest diameter is 15.75 inches to the edge of the welded flange.

jr

I pulled the CRT tonight in preparation for Nick's work in restoring the chassis. Imagine my surprise when I gently set it down on the carpet and heard a soft low "bong", like a distant church bell, emanate from the CRT.

It spooked the hell out of me to say the least, but Nick assured me that at least some 15GP22s do this; apparently he also has a working one that "rings" a bit. It looks just like any other 15GP22. The weld is uglier than hell, and I suppose it wouldn't be much prettier under magnification, but it holds a vacuum. I set it aside in a cool dry corner of my basement. If it still works when I get the chassis back it'll be a miracle. That ANY of them work is a downright miracle.

Ben, What you say is so true. I do cross my fingers every time I turn on my CT-100. It's due for it's monthly test run and will be crossing my fingers, again, this afternoon. Hopefully your 15GP will also crackle on and once again emit sparkling tints & hues.

-Steve D.

Steve,

Show us some screenshots. :-)

I think the entire experience of owning a set with a good 15GP22 can be summed up in two words: cautious optimism. Last night reminded me why I was so happy to pass on my CT-100 to John, but the Westy will be with me for the long haul.

Hey Marshall,

Here are some screen shots I took of the 2018 Rose Parade.

-Steve D.

Good stuff! The set looks brand new with the tag hanging down.

Ben, Much success on the Westy.

And with that, the chassis to the Westinghouse is on the way to Maryland, where Nick will complete a full electrical restoration.

I have asked Nick to document the restoration of the set as much as possible on this thread.

I have complete faith in his ability to bring this set back from the dead. Thank you again for agreeing to restore the set Nick, I really, really appreciate it.