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Electronic M 09-29-2018 11:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jon A. (Post 3204321)
No doubt they're even better at tearing them up.

In the case of one of my friends, the damage was by inheritance...He bought one used manual performance package equipped Honda Civic with a clutch that had very little life left and a hacked in security system and other mods by the previous owners that eventually made him give up on that one and get another just like it from the same place. The second had the same clutch wear but the electrical was not messed up by previous owner mods.

dishdude 09-30-2018 12:39 AM

An oil soaked air filter usually means blow by.

MIPS 09-30-2018 01:33 AM

My thought exactly.
If I read the service docs there's a hose that directly connects the air filter housing to the top of the valve cover. Onside the air filter housing the hose terminates at a small plastic bucket with a felt pad for a filter. It seems as if air is drawn in through this point so the valve cover can breathe but that then does not explain why the valve cover still has its own PCV. Likewise there must of been a LOT of oil that was coughed up as the bucket was full, the felt was drenched and everything around it was soaked.
The problem is known and mentioned here and I performed the steps to verify the mentioned actuators were working. They were, so I can't tell what happened. I will have to verify cylinder compression when I replace the plugs but the engine sure isn't burning oil.

Eric H 09-30-2018 03:23 AM

I assume you checked the PCV valve and it's not clogged?

It could also have a bad baffle inside the valve cover letting oil into the vent hose.

MadMan 09-30-2018 07:54 PM

Blow by should be pretty easy to spot - just take the oil cap off with the motor running. If it's farting out a lot of air, then it's blow by. I'd replace the PCV anyway, literally like $5, good for maintenance. You could always just install an oil catch can if all else fails.

MIPS 09-30-2018 09:51 PM

Well then it's not blow-by. With the oil cap off there wasn't really any air coming out. The engine is still rather young to be having those kinds of problems unless someone's been abusing their maintenance. In yank speak it only has 155000 miles on the odometer.

Anyways I gave it some fuel stabilizer and antifreeze to make it survive the winter and then parked and disconnected the battery so it can survive on a solar charger to keep it topped-up.

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a1...t/CGS_8149.jpg

Here's the interior before I yanked the center console out.

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a1...t/CGS_8151.jpg

...and the rest of the car.

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a1...t/CGS_8150.jpg
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a1...t/CGS_8152.jpg
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a1...t/CGS_8148.jpg

The goals this winter are to repair the 4WD as I indeed tried to use it before I parked it and it will not come out of 4WD and get the initial repairs on the audio done. The four speakers are toast and the installed Alpine has an eye searing red and blue theme going on. The console is too far carved up to reinstall the original radio so in goes a Sony MDX-C5970R and the rough-in connections for the rest of the upcoming components like the Motorola MDT, telephone (yes you heard that right), CB radio, satellite radio and trunk GPS unit for the MDT. Might also be wise to install an Immobilizer as the car will be decked with tech but the starter solenoid is in an awful place so I am wondering what else I could have physically disconnect and prevent the car from starting.
I also need to see what components of the Cruise Control are missing. I got parts but I'm starting to wonder what pieces are spares and which were removed but not reinstalled.
Come summer we should have the money to get new jackstands and start working on the underside and the upholstery which as you can see needs a lot of work.
Oh yeah, the Habitat for Humanity ReStore finally had something I needed for once....

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a1...t/CGS_8153.jpg

fixmeplease 10-01-2018 12:56 PM

Your engine may simply need to breathe more. One of those cheap screen vent caps, try one on the opposing valve cover from the PCV valve, or use one in place of that valve which may be better.

Make sure that place on the carb that the pcv vents too has suction as someone may have messed with it.

Please note, I have never worked on one of these. Mostly Fords from 1950-92 and some pre-fuel injection Chevys.

Jon A. 10-01-2018 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Electronic M (Post 3204441)
In the case of one of my friends, the damage was by inheritance...He bought one used manual performance package equipped Honda Civic with a clutch that had very little life left and a hacked in security system and other mods by the previous owners that eventually made him give up on that one and get another just like it from the same place. The second had the same clutch wear but the electrical was not messed up by previous owner mods.

There's a red flag the size of a Persian rug.
Quote:

Originally Posted by MIPS (Post 3204458)
The four speakers are toast and the installed Alpine has an eye searing red and blue theme going on. The console is too far carved up to reinstall the original radio so in goes a Sony MDX-C5970R and the rough-in connections for the rest of the upcoming components like the Motorola MDT, telephone (yes you heard that right), CB radio, satellite radio and trunk GPS unit for the MDT.

Aftermarket stereos, blech. I think an unmolested console from a junker could be found without a whole lot of trouble.

How can a car phone be used without the AMPS network?

MIPS 10-01-2018 02:30 PM

The junkyard Eagle I went through was already missing its console so I currently have no source for a replacement. a Minidisc deck at least seems way more novelty than a CD player anyways.

It's funny. The carphone is not an actual AMPS unit but a bluetooth device sold by Cartel until a few years ago. It looks and acts exactly like a carphone with a speakerphone (and supports the mute function in the aftermarket stereo) but has a bluetooth button that when pressed pairs with your cellphone so you don't have to pull it out of your pocket.

http://i1225.photobucket.com/albums/...s/DSCN2045.jpg

The problem is even on liquidation they are still about $250, so I can'y make an accompanying bag phone.

Electronic M 10-01-2018 02:53 PM

I've been tempted to take a Bluetooth to landline adapter and install a rotary dial phone as the car phone in my Lincoln. :D

MIPS 10-01-2018 07:02 PM

Tried that when I put a red telephone in a briefcase. The GE and Cobra bluetooth bridges I tried did not support pulse dialing.

Electronic M 10-01-2018 07:27 PM

You probably got the wrong brand. I need to ask what some of my friends use I know two different folks that have no landline connection and use adapters to use their the wiring in their houses...And both have some rotary phones in their collection that they actively use.

timmy 10-01-2018 07:51 PM

I'm an auto tech for 38 years and seen it all and I also rebuilt many transmissions in the past so if that amc had any metal filings in there regardless, the converter must always be changed in a rebuild because metal trapped in the converter move on to the delicate valves in the valve body and can create havoc and burn the unit up. As for the c6 yes they are tough but the draw back with those units is the check balls in the valve body, they are rubber balls and they also have what they called hockey pucks and they are rubber as well and they literally disappear after awhile they just dissolve leaving the transmission with only 1st gear, drive, and reverse.

MadMan 10-02-2018 03:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MIPS (Post 3204458)
so I am wondering what else I could have physically disconnect and prevent the car from starting.

Either the starter wire coming from the ignition switch, or the power wire going to the distributor. The starter wire is the usual pick for aftermarket alarm installs, it's right where you're already working. They put a relay in the middle of it, when energized by the alarm, it disconnects the starter wire. You don't want to interfere with any of the other wires from the ignition switch, because they generally carry a lot of current, too much for a little relay.

Quote:

Originally Posted by timmy (Post 3204481)
I'm an auto tech for 38 years and seen it all and I also rebuilt many transmissions in the past so if that amc had any metal filings in there regardless, the converter must always be changed in a rebuild because metal trapped in the converter move on to the delicate valves in the valve body and can create havoc and burn the unit up. As for the c6 yes they are tough but the draw back with those units is the check balls in the valve body, they are rubber balls and they also have what they called hockey pucks and they are rubber as well and they literally disappear after awhile they just dissolve leaving the transmission with only 1st gear, drive, and reverse.

^ this. Also, is it a C6? I would've leaned more towards a torqueflite or some hydramatic. Meh.

timmy 10-02-2018 04:03 PM

Yes most were Chrysler trans but in a previous post someone mentioned a c6 as being a tough trans. 727 trans were good but they had the annoying converter leak down and the vehicle would not move unless you put it in neutral for about 30 seconds so the converter could fill then it was fine the rest of the day.

fixmeplease 10-02-2018 06:02 PM

I was the poster i think and I was speaking of Ford C6's. What you said might happen but Ive never seen it, never had one that missed 2nd gear. i do know missing 2nd gear with an auto tranny would not stop me from driving it until it quit.

Ive never had a new vehicle and never had one with under 100K miles and drive them until they rust into 3 pieces and never lost 2nd gear. That does not mean you are wrong, but I think it must be rare.

Working in a shop you will see things like that though, and there were millions of C6 Fords made so I imagine you did get some of them. The only thing I personally remember people I knew doing to them was having shift kits installed as they can be sluggish.

timmy 10-02-2018 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fixmeplease (Post 3204506)
I was the poster i think and I was speaking of Ford C6's. What you said might happen but Ive never seen it, never had one that missed 2nd gear. i do know missing 2nd gear with an auto tranny would not stop me from driving it until it quit.

Ive never had a new vehicle and never had one with under 100K miles and drive them until they rust into 3 pieces and never lost 2nd gear. That does not mean you are wrong, but I think it must be rare.

Working in a shop you will see things like that though, and there were millions of C6 Fords made so I imagine you did get some of them. The only thing I personally remember people I knew doing to them was having shift kits installed as they can be sluggish.

well no doubt a shift kit would have eliminated the problem with the rubber check balls disintegrating but it happened more then you would think and transmission shops also said the same but the rubber balls could not be substituted with steel balls I'm not really sure why but a shift kit would have had the steel balls. So I guess you were a lucky one never to have this type of problem and I'm sure there were more c6 transmissions out there that were fine compared to the ones with a check ball problem , I'm sure it was widespread.

fixmeplease 10-02-2018 11:29 PM

Im still lucky as Im still running 2 of them, LOL Now I suppose a week from now my main trucks C6 tranny will go to heck, LOL I did have one with a shift kit when I got it but the others not that I know of. They could have though as that was so common back in the day to add the shift kits regardless of the tranny.

I think GM powerglides made the tranny kits popular, and Im not a powerglide hater either as they had their place in history and were cheap to maintain. Ive had 2 and 1 of them still sits in the shed ready for action 30 years later, LOL

timmy 10-03-2018 05:45 AM

Ahh the powerglide to think they used to pull really big campers, 2 speed no less.

mr_rye89 10-03-2018 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MIPS (Post 3204479)
Tried that when I put a red telephone in a briefcase. The GE and Cobra bluetooth bridges I tried did not support pulse dialing.

Here ya go:

https://www.amazon.com/Xtreme-Techno...X21G49BBT8EPD4

Been meaning to get one of those to power my WE rotary phones at home.

MadMan 10-03-2018 09:11 PM

C6's are alright. The funny thing is that they're Ford's knockoff of Chrysler's Torqueflite. Ford wanted to license the TF, but they got shit from the media for not making their own, so they copied it instead. Legit if you open a C6 and a TF next to each other, several parts look the same.

dieseljeep 10-04-2018 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MadMan (Post 3204549)
C6's are alright. The funny thing is that they're Ford's knockoff of Chrysler's Torqueflite. Ford wanted to license the TF, but they got shit from the media for not making their own, so they copied it instead. Legit if you open a C6 and a TF next to each other, several parts look the same.

They paid Chrysler $7.5M for the rights to build the Torqueflite design.
It was the Simpson gear set that was copied. They designed their own torque convertor.
This information is per either Allpar or Lee Iacocca's book. :thmbsp:

timmy 10-04-2018 12:09 PM

Well that was American motors, Alittle bit of everything . They had parts that looked like ford and Chrysler and gm.

MIPS 10-04-2018 07:33 PM

There really is not much else I can do on the car now without jackstands but that transmission has pushed that investment months ahead. In the meantime I've been trying to figure out what new tools I will need and what needs attention. I have confirmed I have one set of sensors and actuators for the cruise control plus a spare control unit and combination switch for the steering column. That isn't a priority for now but the 4WD is.
I confirmed that the transfer case is currently in 2WD mode but the front hub is locked. Applying a vacuum doesn't seem to disengage it.

I pulled out the salvaged actuators I got and found that while its transfer case actuator was fine the other was also immobile. It took about 45 minutes of applying penetrating oil and persuasion in a vice to unfreeze that and dump out a bunch of rust so my guess is that the one in the car has also seized. That will have to come out and be repaired or replaced when I replace the front diff oil. That alone seems like I will need to get some torx drivers because the actuator is hidden under a rock pan.

Also I am still struggling to find any significant rust. I spent half an hour under the car looking in every tight spot trying to find something serious but aside from really small bits here and there the integrity of everything but the suspension's rubber bushings is amazing. I have freaking mount points that go through the body where bolts have either rusted out or have been so loose they rattle around but the body itself has not started rusting from these mating surfaces. How can a factory rust treatment be this good??

dishdude 10-04-2018 09:19 PM

Why are you fixing the 4wd? The car is a survivor, I wouldn't be driving it anywhere 4wd is needed.

bgadow 10-04-2018 09:34 PM

My thought on old cars is: if it has an option, that option should work even if I don't need it to. I would be pretty worried about driving the car on salted roads.

I remember reading years ago that a primary cause of problems with transfer cases was from lack of use.

dishdude 10-04-2018 09:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bgadow (Post 3204578)
My thought on old cars is: if it has an option, that option should work even if I don't need it to. I would be pretty worried about driving the car on salted roads.

I remember reading years ago that a primary cause of problems with transfer cases was from lack of use.

I agree for the most part, but a ride like this I would never have out in snow or ice so I would not be concerned about the 4wd.

MIPS 10-04-2018 10:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dishdude (Post 3204576)
Why are you fixing the 4wd? The car is a survivor, I wouldn't be driving it anywhere 4wd is needed.

It's not 4WD in that you need sick mud flaps and killer suspension to climb mountains. If I wanted that I'd of bought a 4WD Tracker. It's 4WD in that you get traction on gravel roads, snowy highways and in my case, getting out of the driveway in winter. My 2WD Geo Tracker cannot exit the driveway with snow on the ground or it WILL NOT get out again until the snow melts. This is from experience.

I know all long the Pacific Northwest it is HIGHLY recommended you own a vehicle which can handle extended travel on paved highways and occasional dirt roads and winter mountain passes. In British Columbia especially as of October 1 you are required by law to have either winter tires installed or carry chains. Functioning 4WD that can be switched off for economy was considered when I pulled the trigger on this because putting chains on halfway up the Coq sucks but 4WD makes the ordeal a bit nicer until you hit Hope and you're 1000 feet below the snow line again and 4WD is no longer needed the the last 200km to Vancouver.

Quote:

I would be pretty worried about driving the car on salted roads.
Even with the Tracker I've had so many people say how it's strange seeing cars on the road out here that back East have not been seen on highways for over a decade because they have all succumbed to major rust.
Fact is out West we rarely use salt in the mountains because there are so many grades of gravel Road Maintenance can choose from and it can be recycled every spring when the highways are swept. The only times we use salt are when there are black ice warnings and it's a sprayed brine. So you end up with all levels of ancient cars running as daily drivers with almost no salt corrosion but LOTS of sandblasting and stone chips.
One of my neighbors drives a Lada Niva.

Electronic M 10-05-2018 11:08 AM

My uncle was too poor for jack stands so he took thick logs of the right length and stuck them under the frame rails when working.

My 4 stands are a weird mix. One is the survivor of a set I bought new. Its match got crushed when the folks asked me to check something on their SUV while it was parked on the non-level part of the driveway...It rolled forward as I was raising it and squished the stand it knocked over (I learned to never try jacking on a slope that day). The second was a city find...Someone left it and a matching crummy floor jack (only kept because it is the only hydraulic jack I've found that fits under dads low slung 07 Accord) on the left turn median of Capitol drive at Lily Rd. a couple of years back and after seeing them a couple days straight driving to work I finally scooped them up. I also have a NIB set of stands I have not needed yet that the folks bought me to replace the one that their suv squished.

MIPS 10-05-2018 07:22 PM

Gonna have to soapbox for a moment and point out that either the EaglesDen Forums (apparently there's a forum revolving around the AMC Eagle) have administrators that either never check for new registrations or keep denying my registration and nuking the account before I can even log into the site properly.
I have now tried three different times to register and the welcome email ended up in my spam folder and a note that the new account is disabled until an administrator can approve it and send an email (never arrives) and a few days later you try again to login and get a "this account does not exist". Nice people. Looks like I'm on my own for casual work on this car. :thumbsdn:

bgadow 10-05-2018 09:25 PM

Have you tried here:
http://theamcforum.com/forum/forums.html
Lots of good stuff on there.

MadMan 10-05-2018 09:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MIPS (Post 3204598)
I have now tried three different times to register and the welcome email ended up in my spam folder and a note that the new account is disabled until an administrator can approve it and send an email (never arrives) and a few days later you try again to login and get a "this account does not exist". Nice people. Looks like I'm on my own for casual work on this car. :thumbsdn:

The thing is with forums, especially ones that aren't very busy, is that they get hit real bad with spam bots. Because they don't want to find a real solution to the problem, the admins just check the box that says all accounts need admin approval... and then they always forget to check if there's any new members pending. I wouldn't be too mad at them, they probably just don't check the thing very often.

init4fun 10-07-2018 07:02 PM

nvm

MIPS 10-13-2018 07:35 PM

While working inside the drivers side door to repair the dust cap inside the key lock and figure out why the door handle felt broken (it wasn't. The hinge pin had wiggled out), the vehicle's VBO was found taped to the backside of the inner door panel.

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a1...gle82_VBOa.jpg

Edited: Had to rebuild the lock ultimately. The core and pins were good however the spring loaded dust cap had actually broken in two places and a key forced in so hard the spring had been jammed straight to the back of the core. The car came with replacement locks but the cores had to be swapped. Now I don't need to force the key in at a janky angle to unlock the drivers side, hurrah.

Electronic M 10-13-2018 08:26 PM

Wow, it came with a factory installed "scuff"!...I wonder how many aftermarket scuffs it has had installed since? :D

dishdude 10-13-2018 10:57 PM

I think my 2018 Challenger was built in the same plant.

MIPS 10-14-2018 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MadMan (Post 3204603)
The thing is with forums, especially ones that aren't very busy, is that they get hit real bad with spam bots. Because they don't want to find a real solution to the problem, the admins just check the box that says all accounts need admin approval... and then they always forget to check if there's any new members pending. I wouldn't be too mad at them, they probably just don't check the thing very often.

I've spent the last four weeks trying to register. Different names, different emails....either they are too paranoid it's another spam account or god knows what but apparently they won't answer the door so screw them.:thumbsdn:

Which is just magical because I still have no idea how the Cruise Command actuator used to be installed in this car. It's the one thing in the service manual where there is absolutely nothing about it besides the wiring diagram. I don't even know what points on it attached to the Vacuum system and so far I have not found a photograph of it installed using Google.

fixmeplease 10-14-2018 04:49 PM

Is it autozone??? or at least one of the parts places that has online manuals and schematics for most vehicles. Might be worth a shot.

MIPS 10-14-2018 07:14 PM

No it's not an aftermarket cruise control system. It's the factory shipped option from AMC and is listed for a whole three pages in the mechanics manual. There's a speed transducer attached to the driveshaft, a control arm on the steering column, the regulator box under the dash, a brake light switch and of course the actuator.

http://amceaglesden.com/guide/images...isecommand.jpg
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a1...t/CGS_8176.jpg

I dismantled it to test the two solenoids, replace the vent filter and cleaned the potentiometer. Everything tests good and it will hold a vacuum so it's ready to be reinstalled. Normally the actuators for other cars I have seen have a rather long sleeved linkage but I did not find one with my bin of parts. The chain is however broken. Luckily the other side to it is hanging off the throttle linkage so I know where it used to connect.

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a1...t/IMG_1675.jpg

But I can't find anything that resembles the mounting point for the actuator or for a bracket that I might be missing in proximity.
Then while I was around the carburetor I opened another can of worms.
I spotted the carb stepper motor was not only unplugged but the connector and been separated from the main wire harness and tie strapped to the side. While investigating that I found another connector which also at one point had SOMETHING plugged into it, but not anymore. Rummaging around through the bin found another solenoid valve with a matching plug and nearly identical wire color code but I cannot figure out what this used to be for.

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a1...t/CGS_8178.jpg
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a1...t/CGS_8175.jpg

Then I found ANOTHER part that had come off the carb. The Sol-Vac valve.

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a1...t/CGS_8177.jpg
It and its two screws were in the bin of parts. The harness connector was nearby and the vacuum connection had been plugged. From what I am gathering about this little thing it works to counter Vapor lock problems which stem from design oversight and sounds like a great idea. Unfortunately the diaphragm is passing a vacuum through itself so the unit is bad and I have yet to locate another unit.
Basically I was starting to wonder if the ECU had been given the "Nutter Bypass" (what an awful name) that people talk about however portions of the procedure I could not locate and after some searching I located the ECU inside the cab under the passengers side foot area in seemingly great condition. It baffles me a little however that instead of gasketing and lidding the damn thing though they just potted it completely so it's impossible to service. Look at the thing. I can clearly see the casting marks for where the gasket and lid would go.

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a1...t/CGS_8180.jpg

I mean, I could still do this nutter thing but before I proceed with that it might be wise to first figure out what other changes have already been done.

Edited: The mysterious solenoid and bracket appears to line up with the bolt points on top of the aftermarket valve cover. If this is where it normally is than since my car does not have an Air Pump and thus no need for an upsream and return solenoid (note the two unused mount points on the bracket) then this should be the VsV for the Sol-Vac unit.

Edited: Thank you Autoweek.

https://autoweek.com/sites/default/f...?itok=BRNIvs6r

Upper left corner next to the blower motor. You can just make out the cruise control actuator. So I guess while I can verify the mounting bracket is hiding in my bin of parts it seems the sleeve for the control cable is missing. Drat. :(
Good news is that the system is not built exclusively by AMC. It was also available as a kit from Dana. Apparently that kit was universal and everyone from GM to Volvo used part or all of the kit in their own vehicles.

https://www.picclickimg.com/d/l400/p...se-Control.jpg

Something just feels....right...about the idea of going to Woolco and buying a cruise control package off the shelf.

MadMan 10-14-2018 11:18 PM

Typical among carbureted cars. The people working on them were in a firm mindset of 'fuck all this computer bullshit cuz I can't be bothered to understand it' and just destroy and disable what little engine control the car could've benefited from.

Anyhow, I see in the picture from autoweek, that the cruise control device is by the blower motor, but the one you're holding seems to have a cable no longer than 2 inches. If that's the case, yours would've been mounted real close to the carb, and likely not had a cable sleeve at all. Looking at the pic of the throttle lever with the broken ball chain, the actuator likely sits directly forward of it, as you only have maybe a 20 degree rotational tolerance of where it sits, since the actuator will need to pull in a straight line. You know what I mean?

In your book somewhere, there should be a vacuum diagram. Failing that, hopefully the vacuum routing sticker is still available under the hood of the car somewhere. Either will likely take a while to decipher, but should indicate the proper connection of the cruise actuator and that mystery solenoid.

Typically, though, for the cruise actuator, if should only take one vacuum line straight from manifold vacuum. Not quite sure why it has two ports, unless perhaps one is a takeoff for something else, or perhaps it goes to a vacuum reservoir. Not sure.


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