Use the HV probe to check the B+Boost, or a VTVM. Most DVOM meters do not measure a high enough voltage. I use an RCA Senior voltohmist VTVM on the 1500 volt scale. Boosted B+ is used for the high voltage side of the screen controls and the vert height and vert lin, as well as horizontal centering.

If the 13K resistor that is in series with the 47 ohm resistor has drifted high it will cause the HV to be low. You may have to raise the HOT cathode current a little. Maybe to 200ma. Lower is better, but it must stay under 210ma.

ok then the next step will be to check that 13k resistor and if its good then move on to the boosted voltage at the damper and ill use the hv probe. if the voltage is higher at the damper befor L30 but lower after then L30 may be bad so ill check the ohms on that .4 ohms. if this voltage is high then ill move to check caps in the yoke.

Timmy; Be aware that coils, and capacitors act on the signals coming through them so
to speak.... The raw DC off the damper is pulsed at 15K/cps. The voltage needs to be measured
at a point specified by the schematic. There is no way of knowing what is at the Damper
cathode, and no way of knowing what it's going to do to your test equipment....


Or if it's going to read it correctly....

My schematic is only that, I don't have a full service manual, and do not own a set like that,
or have recent experience on it.... SO be careful... Only use the HV probe.... ***

But There may be some validity in checking around there.... Because you say that you have
had retrace lines on the screen.... And I remember you saying something about how the
screen controls are set..... Do you always have retrace lines on the screen, no matter
what the brightness / contrast setting...?

Do you have a nice color picture that is for the most part accurate, and watchable...?

What company made the new flyback..... Do you remember OEM or Other....?


.

well i will use the hv probe in that area to get an idea whats there. the flyback is a thordarson 273 and so was the one i took out. the color drives, rgb are fully counterclock, off and with them down like this i dont have the lines and i dont think its retrace but rather these color drives appear to be driven to hard by adjusting the right way in the setup mode maybe because of the lack of hv these drives need to be low to be even for the amout of hv present. set this way the picture is good but on white scenes its a different story or other scenes the colors will change alittle and or the pic will pull in alittle at one end. but is watchable. if i set the colors up the right way i have rgb lines across the screen and lots of blooming and brightness and contrast up or down makes no difference. right now with the drives down i have no lines and a decent picture but it is far from right and i dont want to leave it like this after spending so much time looking for this problem to just leave it alone now. the only thing i have to test a hv source like around the damper is the hv probe and i have been shocked many times, i dont like it but i try to be careful.

Don't worry about the shocks.... They're good for-ya- I got a good one once off some 17"
tube set I needed to adjust something and stuck my hand in there, and I watched a spark
jump from the picture tube to my hand on one side, and from the other side to the cabinet.
It cooked the skin and was a hard spot on both sides for months.... And dammit I'm still
here.... And stayed there for the rest of the day, and kept going back day after day...

Just remember to keep only one hand in there, and no path through you to ground....
So be careful what you wear, how you stand, and what you stand on...
No kneeling on cement floors...... Rubber mat maybe two if on cement.

It sure sounds like the picture tube does not have a proper bias setup... Overdrive
all the time.... Something is wrong there.... Have you gone over the voltages...?
At the picture tube pins...?

Lets check


Pin 3 I have 315V
pin 6 should be around 200V
pin 7 600V

What do you get....?

Anyone have good numbers for both sides of the pots on the screen controls...?

Anyone have ideas....? Worry about this now, or not....?

Added second picture with question Kine bias pot good...?

.

ok solid colors-red-195v blue-186v green-193
white with colors-red-760v blue-757v green-759v
yelblue-280v yelgreen-276v yelred-245v this is the voltages when set up the right way but since lowering everything its less now. compared with the sams i have here the sams gives up to 680v to my 760v. i do believe i checked the kine pot as well but thats on my list again to check and the bias is counter also at this time.

I'm thinking your B+ Boost is too high.... It's showing up in the picture tube
bias circuit.... Problem is down around the coils and caps near efficiency coil,
all that goop around there... Resistors, caps, coils. Lets take a breather and let some
people with more time on this set chime in on what they have seen around
this area....

That sams have setup for the Horiz Efficiency coil.... Something we can use...?

.

the sams i have says to use a 500ma meter a .47uf cap across meter a short across horiz oscill cathode coil pin 8 to ground ect adjust min current and not to exceed 210ma. it explains doing this and keeping track of hv current. so you think there could be a problem in the chroma board, hmmm i thought this may be a while ago but it remains to be seen.

No chroma board should only have color osc, demod's stuff like that, not B+ Boost
stuff on it....

If you feel that you can handle the efficiency coil adjustment I think you should at least
set up for it, and see if there is a working adjustment there.... Like some range, and
keeping under the current they recommend.....

Be very careful with the coils, you don't wanna do any damage with that stuff, It'll
be on the brittle side....

You may want to look at measuring the B+ Boost with that HV probe....
This has it marked, you can see it on the schematic near the 6BK4 tube.
They don't give a number. Sams might say something about B+ Boost,
check it out.... You can see how the B+ Boost goes right over to the pin 3's
of the screen adjust pots.... Your voltages look 100V too high, even at
cutoff.... I wonder what they would be if turned up a little.....

http://www.boxcarcabin.com/rca-ctc11-schematic.gif

If you can determine if the Boost is too high, then it's a matter of
testing each component to see if you can find it....

Is that focus rectifier good...? You said some resistor near the focus coil
was burnt up, was it R109 - 100K...?

Also you replaced the flyback with a Thordason same as was in it when you
got it, you have to begin thinking that two pins may be switched... You
may need to see how to check to be sure that that transformer was the
right way to begin with.....


.

the resistor that is across 2 tabs on the focus coil its new and ok the original resistor was burned in 2 and dont know why but its been ok since the new one. the cathode current has a good swing as i can adjust it from around 180 all the way to over 210 ma . the focus rectifier is the 1v2 and is good along with any other resistors that go with it . i think there was a 1 meg and a low ohm resistor at the focus socket where its fed from the fly for the 1v2 heater. as for the fly being wired i went over the sams and the connections to make sure nothing else was wired wrong after finding the focus circuit wrong. if i turn the rgb drives up even al;ittle i get the lines and the blooming. i will have to get to that boost voltage to see what it is and if it is to high im not sure where to find the fault. what 2 pins are you saying may be switched ? i think the 1 meg is the focus wire to the crt.

the terminal guide for the focus coil looking in from the rear is this how to determine the 1234 terminals or is it the as if looking from the front in. the sams dont say and i could have the numbers backwards, if its the other way rather then looking in to the rear.

Each tie point on the fly has a clearly marked indicator as to what it is...?
Anyone have one of these on the bench and can put up a picture of it for
reference...? Does the Sams have resistance checks between each pin set
to check against a resistance number...?

Is there a way to check to be sure these three points are guarantied
wired correctly.....?

For coils:
They usually mark it on the schematic, for default I go to tube view, clockwise
looking from above and one pin is usually got an identifier, it's pin 1.
Resistance checks are a good backup for things that are not clear.
Even if you have to go and test another coil somewhere else in the set...

Thordason usually packs a install note with their transformers, and in some
cases Sam's notes replacement part oddities, like a tie point not internal
on a replacement fly.

Whatever you do, don't swap any wires until we have a really really reasonable
bit of evidence that something may be wrong with the way it's in there......
If this thing explodes I want it to be because we decided to dynamite it
on purpose from a safe distance and film it for youtube....

Anyone got picts of focus coil & flyback wiring we can check out as reference...?
Any replacement notes, etc. Ideas, dynamite, demo caps remote det. ???
.

ok i have the paper from the focus coil i got from moyers and the number 4 terminal has no connection and on the coil it has 3 wires tied together the only ones used are 1 2 3 the 4th one is just a tie point for the coils so i have that wired correctly.

well the terminal coming off the damper that says dont measure would be the hv end of that tube and the schematic shows the centering is tied to that damper terminal and my hv probe just bearly moves and if it were 1kv the needle would move half of the room to the 2kv mark but its not. i would have expected it to move enough to see.

The do not measure end of the damper tube (cathode) has HV AC pulses on it, and the HV probe will only measure DC....Unless it is an HV oscilloscope probe.

You will not get any meaningful readings from the damper cathode so don't bother measuring there...You are more likely to damage your equipment measuring that point then get meaningful data.

ok in the other post you asked about the crt pins 3- 6 - 7 you said 315 -200 - 600 i just check those and they are 3- 583v 6- 194v 7- 584v now i also checked pins 3 - 11- 7- all 3 of these came up 584v and this is with the drives counter if i raise the 3 drives they all are 760v . 584v seems to be alot with the drives completely down all the way. this test was with the crt plug off.

when i first got this set i spoke to a tv tech from way back in the 60s and is still repairing tvs and i told him about the hv and also the 3 color lines across the screen and that i could not get rid of them. well he was hell bent on telling me the crt was bad, no matter what he wanted to hear nothing else , the crt was bad period. how or why he was so sure and persistant that the crt was bad i dont know. i even told him it tested very good he tells me " it dont matter the crt is bad"

They should be with the crt plug on, but you did that measurement a few posts back...
I just thought it was high at what should be cutoff, just wondering out loud. Sorry.

.

I think the point BB on the flyback is the B+ Boost, this runs all the way up to
the picture tube screen adjustment pots through that resistor... R108 10K
Can you check that one, and be sure it's ok....?
Also can you verify that if the flyback has "BB" stamped on it, that there is a direct
connection to parts like C 113, and those 1.5 meg ohm resistors for the
shunt voltage reg. divider circuit...

.

there is no BB on the flyback and there is no BB shown on my schematic.

if you are useing an rca schematic the locations are different numbers so the 10k that you speak of i think it comes right off the flyback on a 720v boost source and runs to the focus coil then to the linearity coil then to one of the 1.5 meg resistors at the hv regulator then to the yoke.

I'm confident the junction of R108 and C109 is the boost...It even says "B+ Boost" right above that next to the '6BK4' label... C109 clearly filters the boost line.

Ok, so lets get a number, and compare that to what someone else gets at the same
point and see what's going on......

.

ok i know where to get that from being this info is coming from an rca schematic and the sams i have is numbered different but thats ok ill use the hv probe there. my sams also shows 720v and 390v is this the 390 boosted up to 720v or is this 390v plus 720v ?

i dont know if it matters but if this boosted voltage feeds the RGB drives that i checked befor at min setting i can tell you that each one turned up max is 760 volts. testing numbers 3-11-7 pins on the crt socket unplugged is what i got.

I'm thinking it's 720V because of what is going on with the screen controls....
Just not sure of what exactly is needs to be... They are suppose to add to the
B+....

Now did you get a good reading on the focus voltage...? Your meter
doesn't load it too much....

.

the focus voltage in my sams states 4-4.5kv and all i get is just under 4kv but does go up alittle more after warming up and the pic is good.

from top to bottom the sams show the volts at the crt 290v
185v
620v
660
680v

should have a you tube dynamite party with this set the crt will be the best part of the show, lol, lol...:yes:

Just happen to have a CTC12 chassis sitting in the living room floor. Imagine that. Here are a few pictures of the flyback area. What chassis is the silvertone and which sams is it in so I can pull it and look. The screen controls usually have B+Boost on one end and B+ on the other. So the screen voltage will be somewhere between the two.

the chassis is a ctc12 clone 528.61115 and it looks just like these pics you have posted. the sams i have is set 655 folder 2 .

With you two guys and the same chassis sitting in front of you, I think there is something
in the L 105, L106 might be bad but the Eff. circuit is working so I'm not 100% on that
anymore.... But I still can't rule out an honest mistake in wiring the Horiz Output windings
that take off for the B+ Boost.... You guys should compare connection points and see
if something can be tracked down..... C 115 and C 116 were checked..or replaced....?

Bill if you would be so good as to post a few shots of those connection points from the fly
to the Boost supply, back to the damper, maybe Timmy can see something maybe was missed....

With most of the adjustment coils still doing something, and the set producing a watchable
picture, it's gotta be something small, overlooked....

.

the pics that were posted i was able to compare all what i did to his chassis and its all correct. both the c 115 and 116 were changed. L105 and 106 both come off the damper and they are not burned or discolored in any way and besides i think if one was open i would have a more obvious problem.

Shorted, or partially - you are right they would not be open....

Sorry Timmy, it's just that overall, the Boost seems to be the thing that could be
out of place, and there is not much to it..... I would even at this point check to be
sure the numbers are correct for the flyback transformer... I would almost be ready
to swap parts one by one from an identical set till I found the problem....

.

even though i didnt clip one end of L105 and 106 and checked ohms they looked ok as far as being discolored and they were not so i left them alone. the flyback is a thordarson fly 273 and it is correct. i think ill take the chassis out at this point and look again for anything. if i had to check boost voltages with the chassis out could i keep the anode wire away from everything should i have to test.

Well, I'm thinking like this.... Chokes, and Capacitors help shape signals, the Boost is
too high-we think, So that leaves some signal out of phase, spike too high, etc, to make
a voltage too high at the screen grid controls, and HV reg- that one we have measured,
and we also see the effects..... So- this all leaves a hand full of parts that could be at fault,
or somehow way off in value, possibly switched etc. before you got it, since it's had this
problem when you got it.... I know you been looking at it for years, but it still leaves
the problem intact, so we're missing something.... Gotta check everything, even if you
take today off, leave it and do it another day.... I know answering questions like
"are you sure the fly is the right one?" is stupid.... But I Can't think of much else....

At this point I would have to be looking at circuit errors before you began replacing parts
and the errors may still be there because no one thought there could have been a
part in the wrong spot when you started this project....

.

ok so i guess when i pull the chassis i will use the sams and go over the fly section wiring including again what i did. and at one time when i found the focus wired wrong i did look around for possible mistakes both by me and maybe from others in the past but i didnt find anymore so at this point i dont really know where to start looking besides the flyback area and somewhat beyond that. i do believe to some degree that the hv reg is working but rather something is preventing it from working properly. so i will check the kine pot ohms again just in case i didnt check that and maybe i concentrated on the hv pot but i have alot to check now and until i find something concrtete the chassis will probably remain out of the set. i dont know if the horiz hold control being turned all the way at the time i got the set going and me tweeking the coil on the vert board to correct that range on the hold control would have anything down the line to do with any of this.

i wonder if its possible i may have messed up in the ps capacitors when i recapped it. where do you think if you would have an educated guess as to what cap and voltages i could have messed up on that may give the effects its doing now. i am really grabbing at straws now, lol lol..... i realize now that i never tried this set when i got it i just tore it apart and began recapping and when i was done that was it so i could still be a fault here if i made a mistake, and in a way i hope i did and im able to find it and correct it. and if i did make a mistake in recapping i will never live it down, lol,lol...

you could check the B+ and see if its in the 400v range, that would clear the power supply.

when you say you found the focus coil wired "wrong" how was that determined?

did it look orig to the set?

still not clear on why the reg would be pulling ANY current at 19kv if it is that is wrong, would point to a bias issue between the flyback and the B+.

you need to understand how it works, at 19kv the shunt tube should be fully biased off, if its not there is a problem. At some point. Since the boost voltage is used in the grid circuit of the shunt, I would look there. for some reason I think you have term 1 and 2 reversed on the fly. that or something with how the focus coil is connected.

oh and dont just swap the 1 and 2 to see if I am right, just triple check the schematic to see if you have it right.

Well Timmy, there are LOTS of threads here that begin "I recapped this "" and now it
doesn't "" " Mostly those problems are caused by mass replacement, A possible misplaced
lead, wrong part, misread code, improper part, wrong tolerances, multiply any or two of
these things times 15 caps, and a lot of problems....

That aside, you received the set with problems... They remain even after all this time,
If it was miswired, and you didn't know it, or think of it, then it's still there....

It's just gunna take time and a little extra thinking....

I do not think it's the screen pots, not there... Flyback - good possibility. Parts around
it and damper - focus - good possibility....

.

terminal 1 and 2 on the fly that goes to the focus coil i just looked and those 2 terminals are reversed . i made the huge mistake as i didnt even pay attention to those numbers instead i put the coil back the way the old one was. so now the mistake was done by who ever put the provious fly in not only wired the focus recifier wrong which i found and corrected but also had those 2 terminals reversed and i didnt pick up on that until now. omg, could this be the whole problem here ?????