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-   -   Zenith 10S690 Volume Control Issues (http://www.videokarma.org/showthread.php?t=272996)

vortalexfan 07-02-2020 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by old_coot88 (Post 3225499)
To jumper the switch, just trace the wiring. Trace it from where the signal wire exits the 2nd IF can and goes to the switch. And trace from C11 to the switch. Put the jumper across the appropriate two lugs.

If perchance you don't plan on using the phono, just leave the jumper in place.

OK, thanks, I'm assuming the lugs I'm jumping are on the switch itself?

I think it is definitely the switch because I'm not getting anything out of radio when I touch the Grid Cap of the 6F5G Audio Amp tube unless I jiggle the switch several times, and even then the hum from touching the grid cap of the 6F5G tube goes away after awhile.

vortalexfan 07-02-2020 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by old_coot88 (Post 3225499)
To jumper the switch, just trace the wiring. Trace it from where the signal wire exits the 2nd IF can and goes to the switch. And trace from C11 to the switch. Put the jumper across the appropriate two lugs.

If perchance you don't plan on using the phono, just leave the jumper in place.

I think I could probably find a replacement switch over at Mouser or Digikey.

Its just a standard 6 Lug SPDT Switch.

In fact here it is on Mouser. https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail...6%2FVdLw%3D%3D

old_coot88 07-02-2020 03:05 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Dude, I gotta apologize. Been giving you bad info. Come to find the switching is done on the downstream side of C11, not on the upstream as in previous sketch.

Thus to jumper the switch, the wires you would trace would be:

1.) from the top lug of volume control to the switch.

2.) from the downstream side of C11 to the switch.

Jumper would go on the appropriate two lugs of the switch.

Damn, sorry for the screwup

vortalexfan 07-02-2020 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by old_coot88 (Post 3225503)
Dude, I gotta apologize. Been giving you bad info. Come to find the switching is done on the downstream side of C11, not on the upstream as in previous sketch.

Thus to jumper the switch, the wires you would trace would be:

1.) from the top lug of volume control to the switch.

2.) from the downstream side of C11 to the switch.

Jumper would go on the appropriate two lugs of the switch.

Damn, sorry for the screwup

Its ok, so I'll just jump the switch that way.

old_coot88 07-02-2020 03:33 PM

Turns out there's an obscure little subnote to the main schematic, showing the radio/phono switching diagram. It's difficult to decipher, but shows the switch as DPDT (double pole/double throw), with the second section switching B+ on/off to the mixer stage.

I would seriously de-consider replacing the switch as that could turn into a real can of worms.

vortalexfan 07-02-2020 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by old_coot88 (Post 3225505)
Turns out there's an obscure little subnote to the main schematic, showing the radio/phono switching diagram. It's difficult to decipher, but shows the switch as DPDT (double pole/double throw), with the second section switching B+ on/off to the mixer stage.

I would seriously de-consider replacing the switch as that could turn into a real can of worms.

Well I really wanted to use the record player on this thing, as it has a nice modern VM 1200 series record changer installed in it.

old_coot88 07-02-2020 05:01 PM

Right now, can you put a record on and play it without any intermittency when you wiggle the switch?

dieseljeep 07-02-2020 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vortalexfan (Post 3225506)
Well I really wanted to use the record player on this thing, as it has a nice modern VM 1200 series record changer installed in it.

It seems like the radio from h*ll. Its hard to believe that you had so much grief with it. You should replace the switch with a decent toggle switch, mounted on the back of the chassis. Easy to get at a bigger hardware store.

vortalexfan 07-02-2020 07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by old_coot88 (Post 3225507)
Right now, can you put a record on and play it without any intermittency when you wiggle the switch?

I don't know as I currently don't have the record player hooked up right now because I'm trying to fix the drawer glides because the original drawer glides were bad.

vortalexfan 07-02-2020 07:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dieseljeep (Post 3225510)
It seems like the radio from h*ll. Its hard to believe that you had so much grief with it. You should replace the switch with a decent toggle switch, mounted on the back of the chassis. Easy to get at a bigger hardware store.

I was thinking the same thing, this thing seems like its possessed.

The switch on the back won't look as complete as having the switch in the front like it originally had. I think I found a switch over at mouser that might work in place of the original.

Kevin Kuehn 07-03-2020 12:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vortalexfan (Post 3225495)
Actually I think the schematic is wrong, because in the radio itself both IF cans go to only ONE SIDE of R11, and I didn't touch that wiring except to replace the old dry rotted wire from the 1st IF can and I just wired that wire back to where it was previously, and I didn't touch the wiring to the 2nd IF Transformer because the wiring was fine in it.

I don't think the schematic is wrong. You'd better retrace your wiring and verify where both ends of R11 terminate.

vortalexfan 07-03-2020 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin Kuehn (Post 3225519)
I don't think the schematic is wrong. You'd better retrace your wiring and verify where both ends of R11 terminate.

I did, and only one end of R11 terminates to both IF Cans.

Riders is known for making mistakes in their service data, so I wouldn't put it past them to accidentally misdraw the schematics.

Kevin Kuehn 07-03-2020 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vortalexfan (Post 3225521)
I did, and only one end of R11 terminates to both IF Cans.

Riders is known for making mistakes in their service data, so I wouldn't put it past them to accidentally misdraw the schematics.

Fine if the radio works like that, but the Riders schematic makes sense as shown. The right end of R11 has audio present and the left end becomes the filtered AVC voltage that would normally be feeding the grids of the RF and 6K7 IF amp.

old_coot88 07-03-2020 02:19 PM

1 Attachment(s)
After finally deciphering the switching subnote below the main schematic, and correctly drawing it (finally:sing: in post# 83), R11 is not relevant to the discussion since it's not involved in the switch circuit.

The second gang of the switch is used for switching mixer (6A8) screen grid voltage on/off as shown:

jr_tech 07-03-2020 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin Kuehn (Post 3225523)
Fine if the radio works like that, but the Riders schematic makes sense as shown. The right end of R11 has audio present and the left end becomes the filtered AVC voltage that would normally be feeding the grids of the RF and 6K7 IF amp.

Perhaps that second “IF can” is actually the antenna coil?

The schematic appears to be correct, from my understanding of the typical AVC circuit design.
jr

Kevin Kuehn 07-03-2020 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jr_tech (Post 3225525)
Perhaps that second “IF can” is actually the antenna coil?

Now there's a real possibility. :D

vortalexfan 07-03-2020 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin Kuehn (Post 3225523)
Fine if the radio works like that, but the Riders schematic makes sense as shown. The right end of R11 has audio present and the left end becomes the filtered AVC voltage that would normally be feeding the grids of the RF and 6K7 IF amp.

Either that or my set was a Friday special and was miswired from the factory but wasn't caught by Quality Control because it still worked that way...

Kevin Kuehn 07-03-2020 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vortalexfan (Post 3225529)
Either that or my set was a Friday special and was miswired from the factory but wasn't caught by Quality Control because it still worked that way...

I'm more leaning towards this. ;)
Quote:

Originally Posted by jr_tech (Post 3225525)
Perhaps that second “IF can” is actually the antenna coil?


vortalexfan 07-03-2020 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin Kuehn (Post 3225530)
I'm more leaning towards this. ;)

It would explain why this thing is acting up like it is.

dieseljeep 07-03-2020 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin Kuehn (Post 3225530)
I'm more leaning towards this. ;)

I would wire it per the schematic. You stated there was an issue with the AVC not working properly.

vortalexfan 07-03-2020 07:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dieseljeep (Post 3225532)
I would wire it per the schematic. You stated there was an issue with the AVC not working properly.

Yeah. The audio would fade in and out even though there wasn't anything wrong with the signal.

I was thinking it was a problem with the AVC bypass cap being leaky but if you would of seen the condition of the original capacitors in this radio and the fact that it had almost all of it's original tubes in it yet, I'm beginning to wonder if this radio was a low hours set because of that wiring issue and AVC problem.

Kevin Kuehn 07-03-2020 09:58 PM

Any update on jumping those two switch contacts per old_coot88 directions? Undoubtedly you have two short lengths of wire, resistor clippings, anything?

vortalexfan 07-03-2020 11:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin Kuehn (Post 3225535)
Any update on jumping those two switch contacts per old_coot88 directions? Undoubtedly you have two short lengths of wire, resistor clippings, anything?

Not yet, been kind of busy the last couple of days.

Plus, I've been kind of taking a break on working on the radio part to try and work on the record player drawer trying to figure out how best to make some modern euro style drawer glides work with the record player drawer since the original drawer glides were broken and they were a custom job for this unit.

jr_tech 07-05-2020 03:04 PM

How many “IF cans” do you see on the radio chassis?
What does the other end of r-11 appear to be connected to?



jr

vortalexfan 07-05-2020 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jr_tech (Post 3225566)
How many “IF cans” do you see on the radio chassis?
What does the other end of r-11 appear to be connected to?



jr

There's 2 IF cans and a 3rd can that looks like it should be an IF can but it doesn't have any trimmer caps on top like the actual IF cans do, it appears to be just a coil of some sort inside and that's it, no trimmer caps on the bottom either, maybe the RF Coil?

The other side of R11 from what I could see looked like it attached to the tone control panel/circuit somewhere.

vortalexfan 07-07-2020 09:03 PM

Well I had a tree fall through the roof of my house and so I won't be able to work on my radio for a while until they get the roof and everything fixed, because the side of the house that the tree hit was the side of the house where my workshop was at. :sigh::tears:

Titan1a 07-08-2020 02:32 AM

It happened to us. Expensive and time-consuming. I hope you're repairs are all done soon.

vortalexfan 07-08-2020 06:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Titan1a (Post 3225624)
It happened to us. Expensive and time-consuming. I hope you're repairs are all done soon.

I hope so too. Because I previously had my workshop redone because of mold issues last year and that took all but half a year to get done. :sigh:

dieseljeep 07-08-2020 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vortalexfan (Post 3225625)
I hope so too. Because I previously had my workshop redone because of mold issues last year and that took all but half a year to get done. :sigh:

We really had strange weather patterns in the Midwest this early summer. Heavy winds, excess rain in many areas, power outages and really oppressive heat. :thumbsdn:

vortalexfan 07-08-2020 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dieseljeep (Post 3225632)
We really had strange weather patterns in the Midwest this early summer. Heavy winds, excess rain in many areas, power outages and really oppressive heat. :thumbsdn:

The thing is, this tree fell because of termite damage not because of a storm...:scratch2:

The tree fell in two parts so far, the first section fell on the neighbor's house (it was actually their tree) and the second part fell on my house.


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