Again,it's highly recommended that you have all NOS tubes in the color section, and NEW resistors would not hurt, but are needed if what you say is true, but it would still be better to replace the ones i mentioned with a matched pair at 2% tol, and THEN do the color AFC alignment E X A C T L Y as listed in the SAMS step by step, this very well may go a long way to solving the problems you are having.

Those 2 470 resistors each have a 330pf mica on them what’s to say there are good or not.

I just checked the 2 330pf micas one is 340 and the other is 350 pf I don’t know if this is considered to be to far out.

If it was MY set, I would replace the caps with these,
https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail...Ntfni7EA%3D%3D

the 2 resistors with
https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail...8mCiDAyg%3D%3D

and the 82pf c119 with
https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail...95w9uDP1pRg%3D

These form a phase locked loop circuit, which control the color oscillator, the more matched you can get the parts, the more stable it will be, thus the point of having the resistors being a matched pair and very close tol on both caps and resistors.

Does these micas sound like they are out to far to be any good being micas are for a stable exact circuit.

unknown, it very well could be, but without being able to see the signal out of the detector, as shown on pins 1 and 2 on the SAMS at v22, there is no way to know, if things a wrong, the beat pattern will be messed up, uneven, missing, and so on, this will throw the color osc out of sync.

Per SAMS, these are 5% parts. This tolerance is specified mainly for the match rather than the absolute value. So 340 and 350 is more than close enough to work as intended.

These caps are encapsulated and only have 12 volts on them according to the SAMS and are therefore very unlikely to suffer from silver mica disease.

If you have not done the AFC alignment procedure yet, it is really important to do that before trying to trouble-shoot further. The first part of the procedure makes sure the phase detector is getting maximum amplitude signals, and the second part then makes sure the oscillator is at nominal frequency when the detector output is zero. If this second condition is not met, the oscillator will try to run off frequency and the detector will try to develop enough control voltage to center it again - but if it eventually drifts too far off, control will be lost. In this case, the color killer circuit may decide there is no burst and shut off the color unless it is cranked to one end to force color on.

I don’t know what to believe at this point what to change or what not to change.

At the 2 330pf caps sams shows 12v on each I’m getting 10v and 13v

As we have been saying, first and foremost, you must do the Color AFC Alignment procedure, you must be precise and meticulous,doing every step as stated in the SAMS.

Then, and only THEN AFTER, if there is still color problems , do you move on to debugging any faults.

I understand I should go with the color alignment but I don’t have a scope to check waveforms and at this point I don’t want to mess this color circuit up anymore then it is by turning a17 and a18 and besides I was not able to free up the slug I mentioned earlier and the color works then it don’t so for now I’m just going to look for anything within v 21-22-23 and hope I can come up with something.

Usually the chroma osc/chroma AFC alignment doesn't require a scope in Sam's procedure. IIRC it's chroma bandpass that needs a scope and I believe you don't need to do bandpass.
Your osc wasn't holding sync so just do the chroma osc adjustment.

the Sam's procedure does say to hook up a scope and to check for correct waveform at point H with a color bar generator, and to check the G-Y B-Y output waves as well, how critical this is to the over all color AFC alignment , who can say.

the bigger issue is the stuck coil

I don’t believe there is anything wrong with the coils because the color was fine and slowly went out and it still sounds like a resistor or maybe a cap. A lot of people think micas don’t go bad but they do for all I know the 2 330pf caps may be the problem for me it’s a big crap shoot guess at this point.

Exactly the kind of thing you would expect if the AFC alignment needs to be done.

If an adjustable coil can't be adjusted it's bad and must be fixed or replaced.... Especially when it's an adjustment for a stage that's acting up...If a stage is acting up the first thing to do is correctly adjust it, and you only conclude it's a circuit fault when you can't adjust the problem away....Often if you can't achieve an alignment instruction it clues you in to where the fault is.

If one of the adjustable colis on your convergence board was physically damaged and the part of the screen it effects was the only messed up part would you change the coil or troubleshoot the rest of the convergence board?
If the vertical linearity pot was rust ceased and the vertical sweep looked wrong would you fix/change the pot or change every resistor and cap?
If an adjustment that often exists to compensate for tube aging is stuck trying to make the rest of the circuit compensate and do the adjustment is about as much of a rube Goldberg waste of time as you can possibly achieve.

There is a slug in the back of the chassis that sams says it’s for the 3.58 xtal should this be touched at all I don’t think sams mentions this coil for the AFC.

Do you mean the 3.58 mhz trap, next to the circuit breaker? this is part of the demod area, and not the oscillator.

you really have no option, you have to get that coil unstuck, or find a replacement.

Yes the one next to the breaker so I’ll leave that alone. The coils are the a17 a18 that won’t move and there has to be a better way to get them to move and there is no steel Allen wrench that would fit that I would only use the plastic. When I heated one of them it started to move but was really tight.

There is one that will fit, if you have a full set of sizes metric and standard, I have more than one of the correct size.

but unless they can be freed, you won't be able to set the color sync correctly.

https://www.amazon.com/HORUSDY-Wrenc...0590499&sr=8-5

the correct size is sure to be in this set. :yes:

Ok, I'm blind - where is A20 on the schematic?

Took me a wile to find it also! below the R-Y amp, under C142, had not seen one used before that was adjustable. :scratch2:

I think the alignment instruction for A20 in the SAMS must have a mistake. This trap couldn't possibly affect pin 6 of the burst amp. The place to look with a scope would be the plate of one of the three color amps (pin 1 of V25, V24, or V20). Actually, you shouldn't need a scope at all, just look for minimum crawling dots on the screen in colored areas.

I looked at Forest Belt's book, which has a schematic for the TS-907B chassis. That version does not have the 3.58 trap, and indicates that L37 and L38 filter out the 3.58 MHz.

Another thing I find Weird in this Sams, for the Color AFC setup, it says to turn the color killer full clockwise, but on other sets I have seen, it says to set it full CCW, is this an error? or is full off for the killer full clockwise on this set?

I guess we have to ask the man who owns one. :D

I don’t like taking chances but if I can find an Allen wrench that fits right and tight snug then I’ll see if these slugs will move but every wrench fits to loose and that alone being loose will break the slug I have a spare slug but if it breaks i won’t be able to get it back where it was.

they do make one of the exact size you need, the same size of the alignment tool, but its only to be used to heat the stuck inside core, you then use the plastic one to turn it oncen its heated.

1. put in allen wrench,
2, heat allen wrench with soldering iron, or other type device to heat core.
3 , remove allen wrench, and try to see if core will move with alignment tool, you may need to use solvent.

repeat.

These plastic adjusting tools can break easy or with a heated core the tool may slip then that’s the end of that

Those readings of voltages that were NOT in spec of +12 and -12 at V22 are proof that things are out of alignment, and unless A19/A18/A17 can be correctly adjusted, it will continue to give you problems.

You can keep looking for parts out of spec, but you will be unlikely to find any. That is not to say new parts in the area won’t help, but, 95% of your problem is not being able to set the color section alignment correctly.

And as old_tv_nut pointed out, the voltages you saw at the phase detector are a key sign of this.

And is it possible that the if alignment that i had touched in the beginning have anything to do with this color thing even though I get a great picture.

Packard !

It very well could, there is a reason the alignment steps are numbered 1-8, each has an effect on the other in a way from very subtle to drastic, setup is a long delicate dance of back and fourth, up and down, round and round, you skip steps, jump around, and you can get odd results, very much like what you are seeing.

Well you do make sense but in the beginning all was fine it’s only when it started acting up so the IF alignment didn’t change I haven’t touched it so still something triggered this condition. And the color IF I’m sure that didn’t change I haven’t touched that either if all was good befor then it still seems logical that a cap or resistor went bad bad somewhere.

Here are two ways you can try to get a slug moving again using a metal
allen key. Try and get a few turns of aluminum foil wrapped around it
before putting it in the slug - see if it gets snug enough as to not
turn inside the slug & break it. I believe the slugs break from
the Allen Key turning inside the slug kinda forcing to to
expand as it skips.... Or you can just epoxy it into the
slug and take it out & insert a new one - Put some
chapstick on it before you put it back. Wax makes
a great dry lubricant.

You have to be careful with epoxy in the slug - make sure
none gets anywhere along the threads.....


.

I am very weary of stuck slugs. It is heat over time which makes it stick tight.

I have closeto 100% success by using a heat gun with a nozzle I constructed to focus the warm air towards the slug. Careful application of heat melts the wax and frees up the slug without risk of splitting it.

I have even had success with heat removing split slugs.

So when doing resistance checking at the tube sockets am I correct in saying check with tubes in place ?