Market values of vintage color sets
 

Tim,

The 1960's color sets' values don't come anywhere near the $6,000-$8,000 of a working Merrill or the $1,000-$3,000 values of early post-war B/W sets, but at $200-$500 they're still quite worthwhile to restore. The CTC11 brought $400 which I considered to be a pretty good price. I expect to be able to create a full-time position for an assistant sometime next year at the rate the company's income is growing, and I hope to start manufacturing and marketing some of the products I've been developing within 2-3 years. For now, I'm just glad to have all my bills paid on time and to have created a part-time job that keeps a high school kid busy a few evenings and Saturdays. I learned this week that my teenage son needs to build a little more muscle before he's ready to take on the duties of the job. He almost dropped that Sylvania set on the stairs, but he managed to set his end down gently enough that the set survived the trip out of the basement. After a short break (while I supported most of the set's weight), we got the set moved to its new temporary home.

John

Big Bucks!
 

Hi John,
I'm not sure when working CT-100's got to $6000-$8000 in value, but I'm pleasenty surprised. :p:

Steve-o, time to unload that thing! :D

Dear Steve,

As I recall, one sold on eBay in about August, had only been partially recapped, and went for somewhere around $6,000 as I recall. The $8,000 figure was a guess, assuming a fully-recapped set should fetch another $2,000.

John

CT-100s aren't worth that much yet. The last sale I know of was a couple of months ago - a fully restored set, working, sold for just under $3000.

So nice to see these set actually working for a change!

VERY PRETTY!!!! (wish i had one)
Marlin

ct-100 cabinet colors
 

hi all,one thing i have noticed is that the cabinet colors seem to be a tad different,steve d's and steve k's and mine seem different.
i know white balance and lighting make a major role on the overall
photgraph taken ..but was there 2 different cabinet choices back then..?
steve d's set looks more like mine..steve k's looks a lot different,
actualy i like his cabinet color better than mine..
(how many other steve's own a ct-100?:)..)
terry

CT-100 finish
 

My CT-100, which can be viewed elsewhere on this site, was re-finished by me some years ago. The original owner had at his wife's request painted it antique white. It was quite a job to strip it. I believe Steve McVoy posted on his site a picture of two original CT-100's with different factory finishes.

I have had three CT-100s next to each other, and the finishes varied a lot. I don't think they were different originally, though there might have been some small variation in the color. It is more likely that different sets have been stored in different conditions and have aged accordingly.

Steve D's RCA CTC-5
 

Steve D asked me to post these pictures of his RCA CTC-5 "Wingate" model in maple. I have seen this set up close and it looks like it just left the factory. It is also in working condition.

Steve K

Here is a picture of Steve's Wingate open. That is the original owner's manual sitting in front of the set.

SteveD,

Wow! That sure is a beauty...and you found one without a record player too! :)

Trouble with these is they take up a lot of space, as those of us who collect them know well.

Thanx SteveK for posting.

Rob

my ctc10 that came out of a barn
 

this ctc10 came out of a barn. the cabinet was rough. had it refinished. replaced all electrolytics. then had a crt built by video display corp. it works great and has excellent brightness. i also have another ctc10 that was hardley used and 2 ctc9,s one ctc16. i will try to get them posted soon:D

almost new rca ctc10
 

this rca ctc-10 is almost new. all but 2 tubes were original. the horizontal output had gone to air. slowley powered it up and it worked great. first picture is just after replacing the output tube.
second picture before i cleaned it up. third picture after cleanup on the inside. it has since developed an intermitting video problem.
it acts like you are turning up the brightess then down kinda fast.
sockets are fine as all solder connection and tubes. maby a cap breaking down. high volt is stable. will dig into it before long. steve

next picture
 

picture after horizontal output replaced.:p:

Nice sets
 

Hey RCA Man,
Those are really nice sets:). Wasn't it great when tv's were furniture instead of high tech plastic boxes?

I'll second that, pal!

Hi Steve,
It begs the question. Does any manufacturer like RCA or Zenith still list a wood bodied console in their product lineup?:confused: Does anyone out there have a current catalog? Do these companies still print up catalogs?

I doubt wood is offered anymore. Not even the fake kind that Sony offered in the 1980's.

If sets start looking like this again, let me know, I'll buy 'em all! (Scroll down to second and third picture):

http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/sh...&threadid=4274


:) :cool:

I also agree that things were better back then. I think the manufacturers' goal in developing tomorrow's tv's is for them to be like picture frames. The idea behind the high tech plastic boxes of recent years is that most of us are putting them on a shelf in an entertainment center. I seem to remember a set that NAP (Sylvania/Philco/Magnavox) offered in the early 80's that was supposed to be installed in the hollowed-out shell of an older tv (if I remember correctly what the salesman told my parents at the time). They didn't buy the "25-inch table-model" and opted instead for another Sylvania console to replace the '74 GE that had just cooked its flyback.

It's ironic that Sylvania tv sets have also become plastic boxes (considering that the name itself means "woods") I'm in the process of designing some "vintage replica" tv's with wooden cabinets and hope to market the first model by mid-2005. Stay tuned.

new wood cabinet tv,s
 

yes rca still makes consoles. 3 27" consoles 1 32" console 1 36" console. i used to sell a ton of consoles. i also used to sell them while they were on the repair bench getting fixed. { used ones of course}. i have 4 used ones sitting on the floor that has been there a long time priced cheap. monkey see monkey do. as the saying goes. everybody wants an entertainment center with a portable in it. most of the entertainment centers look like crap. but hey our neighbor has one so i have to have the same thing. also the big screens are looking like pure crap. they also used to have nice cabinets on them. if you push one of them the wrong way you are lucky if the cabinet dont fall apart.:puke:

Wood consoles
 

Thanks rcaman,
I appreciate the reply and the information.

Well, it doesn't have a round CRT, but this set is quite unusual. It is a Mitsubishi 6CT-338 from 1964-65. It uses three colored 6" CRTs and several mirrors to produce the color picture. It's unusual to see a color picture without the phosphor dots or stripes of a normal TV. Sometime I'll replace the troublesome paper/oil capacitors and get this thing working like it should.
http://members.aol.com/radiotv72/mitsu.jpg
http://members.aol.com/radiotv72/mitsupic.jpg

Mitsubishi
 

Wow... that's unique! The cabinet must be quite large to house three different 6" CRTs! I wonder what Mistsubihi's idea was behind that design?

Erich,

That is a most unusual find! Some of the early color video projection sets used exactly that technolgy and they just placed a single refractive projection lens after the dichroic mirror combiner. The very first experimental RCA color (NTSC type) prototype circa 1950 is built like your Mitsubishi, but has 10" CRT's I think and was all vacuum tubes of course so it has a cabinet as large as a chest freezer.

How about posting some interior pictures of the guts?

Rob

Mitsubishi
 

Here are some interior shots. You can see the three deflection yokes in the one side view. I placed a 17" GE B&W portable next to the set to give an idea of size. I lucked out with some spare parts for this set as well. I have spare green and blue CRTs, some extra PC boards, deflection yokes, and most of all, a vertical output transformer. I had to replace the transformer because it had a shorted secondary and the convergence adjustments would not work correctly. I also have the operation manual and schematic, but it's all in Japanese. This set is finicky right now; the tuner has a fair amount of drift and you need to keep readjusting the fine tuning to maintain a good picture. Except for recapping the vertical oscillator/output circuits, it's in "as found" condition right now.
http://members.aol.com/radiotv72/P1000342.jpg
http://members.aol.com/radiotv72/P1000343.jpg
http://members.aol.com/radiotv72/P1000344.jpg

Wow. Very trippy!

Erich,

Yup, definitely a collectible piece from a technological/historical point of view. It would be interesting to dig up some history on this item.

Rob

Is the final viewing picture six inches, or does it get blown up some by the time you see it? I know the Japanese could come up with some cool ideas and made some sturdy electronics, but it sure seems as if there is a lot involved here to make a six inch color picture.

In any case, it is an interesting set, and definately a rare find! I would think that it was probably expensive to buy new back then!

RCA roots here?
 

I do agree with Rob. This looks like an advanced development of the old RCA "Trinoscope" from the late forties and early '50s. A discription and picture of the "Trinoscope" color receiver can be found on Ed Reitan's color tv site. under "early developmental color receivers".

Not exactly round...
 

Hey guys,
Well, it's not exactly a round CRT, but I think this is still a good looking dinosaur. It's a Sylvania hybrid set with solid-state audio and tube video. The extent of my color collection is a CTC31 that I removed the cataracts from and an interesting '60s 19" metal cabinet Zenith with wired remote. The wood sided remote features controls for channel/color level/hue/volume/speaker (it has it's own local speaker). Pressing the appropriate rocker switch causes the respective pot to spin on the set :) This set or the 8" RCA below gets used nightly. If anyone has any schematics for this Sylvania, let me know, the FM has dropped out leaving no audio for TV either. Gotta love the design though!

nice console!
 

Hi Cory,

A hearty belated 'Welcome' to the Vintage TV forums! :) You are a brave soul to have tackled that cataract operation. I believe I read about it on your site a while back. Those big consoles are disappearing, most went to landfill years ago. Yours appears to work well.

That gizmo with mucho power tubes in it top left of the photo looks like it would be of interest to the group of tube audio heads here at AK. Why not tell us about it with photos in the tube forum?!

Rob

i have had success with nichrome wire and a 12v gelcell.
i made a set of handles with cables to go to the battery.
worked nice on a 19eyp22.
just dont breath the fumes.
do it outdoors.
going to do a 25bap22 in a zenith next and a 21fjp22 in a rca.
the stuff in between is pva(polyviynl acetate.
the trick is to get the tube and cover glass clean.
some small rubber blocks around the edge to space the glass and packing tape to contain the new stuff.
poke hole in tape at top and inject new resin.
i will find out the part number of the resin kit and post it here.
i think it is made by corning but not sure.

kc,

You delaminated totally differently than I did. I avoid localized heating which I feared might cause local stress in the glass, a big no-no. I thought of a hot wire and also a rope saw but did not go those routes for the heat buildup concern.

In other electronics work I have used a clear silicone potting compound which pours like thin syrup and is a two part that cures like epoxy, used for potting electronic modules from Dow Corning. Is this the stuff you used?

In my 21FJP22 rebuild I left a ~0.100 inch air gap filled with dry argon and merely sealed the faceplate onto the CRT with a bead of RTV around the periphery to seal it up. Faceplate can be removed fairly easily with a razor knife to save it if desired (groovy large glass dish) when the CRT is finally toast.

Rob

this stuff is not silicone.
i will get the can later when i go to my shop.
these tubes are a lot tougher than you think.
i have seen ge and channel master rebuilts come in without the cover glass.
no bands around the faceplate either.
the last rebuilts i got from vdc have the proper laminated front.
i set a dead 21fjp22 without a laminated face out back of my shop and tossed rocks at it.
all that did was chip the face.
after i knocked the neck off i put it in the dumpster and it took a very hard hit with a hammer to break the faceplate.this tube had a bad burnin from vertical deflection loss so not worth rebuilding.
btw i have seen 3 types of cateract type failures.
1 is a simple delamination.
2 is mold or fungus growth in the pva.
3 is yellowing or the green halo.(mostly zenith and sylvania)

21FJP22 disaster
 

Hi all,

This is my first post to this very interesting site.

I recently started restoration on a CTC-16 with a rebuilt 21FJP22.
The CRT looked very good on the checker and when fired up produced a good picture with excellent gray scale tracking. One night after watching it for about an hour I shut it down and went to bed. Two days later I decided to work on some issues with the convergence board. I was horrified to see the gun assembly hanging limp. During cool down, the contraction of the glass must have caused a weakened neck seal to let go. Up to this point, it was a great tube with only the slightest hint of delamination of the face plate (barely noticeable with high brightness).

Anybody know of a source of 21FJP22's?

Harold

Re: 21FJP22 disaster
 

Harold,

Welcome to AK's Vintage TV Forums. Glad to have another collector/restorer on board. That is really unfortunate about your 21FJP22 mishap. That certainly doesn't occur often. These tubes took up so much space on dealers shelves that it became too expensive to keep them when they became dead stock so tragically most NOS tubes are now in landfill. I have never run across a NIB 21" color tube and rely on finding old sets with good CRT's as the only source I know. Even that is not an easy way to find these as most of these sets are now in landfills too. The CTC-16 was RCA's first really reliable color set, so once you get it going it should provide years of enjoyment.

Perhaps someone reading this could help Harold out?

Rob

the first crt rebuild for my ctc10 worked great for about an hour.
then the neck cracked. they had no 21" tubes to replace that one with so i sent them one of my duds. it works great. it seems yours was like mine had a weat spot where the glass was joined at the time of rebuild. i have a new in box 21fjp22 and a 21cyp22
and an extra 21fjp22. no they are not for sale at this time. i see them going up in value everyday if you can find one grab it.
steve:D

21FJP22
 

Steve,

Thanks for the reply. I'm sorry to hear I'm not the only one who has experienced this failure. I spoke with Hawkeye today, and was told this can happen when the heat used to weld the new gun structure is not evenly distributed. It apparently creates a weak area displaced from the weld.

If anyone has a tube available, please let me know. My email is:

[email protected]

Harold