i dont get something here, the fly shows 1 and 2 but the sams shows the 1 goes to terminal 2 and 2 goes to 1 so they are not reversed because terminal 1 dont go to 1.

try wiring it correctly and see, if you are sure of the correct way.

a clue was when you said "the focus coil was wired incorrectly" anytime you find yourself thinking that way and its factory orig, you need to re think it.
do you have the paper work that came with the fly? it should have the wiring diagram on it.

Just take your time and be sure..... Check over a good part or the entire set before putting it back....

.

the sams clearly shows the fly terminal 1 goes to terminal 2 on the focus coil and fly terminal 2 goes to focus terminal 1 so i thought i had it but another dead end because i cant wire it 1 to 1 and 2 to 2 because that would be wrong as it can be confusing with the numbers opposite like this.

you need to look at the wiring diagrams that came with the fly and with the coil.
Sams assumes factory replacement parts, Besides Sams can be wrong.

if you dont have the paperwork anymore you can at least ohm out the fly and confirm the order of the terminals starting at the horz out plate cap and working down.

What he means by this, is that if you place one ohm meter lead at the plate,
then each tap on the transformer going away from the plate, should add a few
ohms to the reading.... That way you can identify close taps, and farther away taps....
But everything on that winding needs to be disconnected - it needs to have
all but one lead and the plate out of the circuit.

.

well yes that would be somewhat of a last resort because if i changed the fly and had any different problems then yes i could check it that way but i have the same problem from the old fly and with the new fly. so the 2 terminals being reversed during manufacturing i would think its highly unlikely being the old fly was from what looked like the 80s or could have been earlier, i dont know. so if anything i could check ohms at the 2 wires that go to the focus coil i guess to rule it out but 2 flys, same problem, hmmm. the ohms on the focus coil are ok also. c1 and c2 are in the right position on the centering pot and the wires leading to and from the fly are where they should be . i just jumped to the conclusion that those 2 wires were reversed but they are not both by the sams i have and the rca schematic. back to square one.

just make sure the bottom winding is the boost.

btw, where does the blue wire from the yoke connect to?

the bottom winding is by itself from the flyback to the f coil is #1 and # 2 is from the fly also and goes to the f coil but this one has what i believe is the boost and its a red wire coming from under the chassis. if you look at the pics from befor that ctc12 chassis has the red wire also and in the same spot # 2 terminal. the blue wire from the yoke i would have to pull the chassis to follow it but i did some continuity checks and it is where it should be as far as that simple test which i know is not accurate. but i will be pulling the chassis. i check continuity between that blue wire and the 6bk4 and terminal #1 of the focus coil then moves on to terminal #2 of the fly. if im not mistaken the red wire on the fly terminal #2 comes from the damper but not certain until i pull it out.

yoke red lead goes to the center term of the horz pos pot.

yoke blue lead goes to the bottom of the fly windings.

PLEASE no other info just confirm that. More later after you confirm.

ok pulled the chassis out alittle to see under it . yes the red yoke i know goes to the centering pot, center leg. the blue yoke wire goes under the chassis to a tie strip which has one of the 1.5 meg resistors its tied to that and also 2 red wires red also tied to that terminal one comes up to the fly terminal #2 which goes to f coil # 1 and the other red runs up to attach to a cap and the one of the coils on the damper. this is confirmed.

and the other leg on the horiz centering pot is a brown wire going to the other coil on the damper. this is confirmed too. i am also comparing what i find to my sams and the rca schematic and its looking the same as i have here.

...

Next is you need to determine if that lug on the fly is the bottom of the winding, squirrel boy went over this a few post back. and if that is also where the boost voltage (and therefore shunt grid regulator supply) is connected.

blue should go to focus coil(w/100k mounted to focus coil),1.5 meg (part of shunt reg circuit),10k(part of boost supply circuit),.12 cap,bottom winding of fly.

BOTTOM WINDING OF FLY NEEDS TO BE CONFIRMED

The other end of the .12 cap goes to a tap on the efficency coil. That all sounds correct.

If Boost is low it is because your HV is low. Since you had 30KV with the regulator cap off I would assume it is capable of producing the 24KV needed under load. Low HV could be caused by insufficent drive from the H out tube, or from excessive load on the HV section. For now the screen voltages on CRT pins 3 7 and 11 may be close. Looks like Boost is 750 to 800 volts. The B+ should be 395 volts. So the screen voltages should be between 400 and 800 volts. Look at the CRT cathode voltages. They should all be close to 300 volts. These are controlled by the kine bias and drive controls. Double check the kine bias pot, and the resistors on either side of the kine bias control. The video out tube and associated circuit can also cause retrace lines and blooming because it can cause the CRT to draw excessive beam current. I would verify the componants in the 12BY7 video output circuit. There are several high wattage resistors between the plate and the Kine bias control and you could have some leaky capacitors. Oh yeah, do check the video output tube.
In a normal gray scale setup you start with Kine bias all the way down and the drive controls all the way up. You adjust the screen controls for a barely visible line. If one color does not make a line you leave that screen control up and increase the kine bias to produce a barely visible line, then bring the other colors screen controls up to match. With a normal brightness Black and white picture on the screen adjust the drive controls to eliminate color shading. One of the drives will usually be at max and you reduce the other one to eliminate shading.
If the CRT current is high and it is loading the HV section the Regulator current will be low. Regulator current should be between 85 and 140 milliamps.
I am a little curious about the screen voltage not going below 584 volts. Maybe the CRT is conducting to hard due to improper bias on the cathodes. Hmmm.

Don't you mean microamps (uA)? The regulator works by loading the HV so if it is drawing 140mA from a 25kV source then it would be pulling 3500W through the flyback which is impossible.

Should be able to run about 100 roundies with that.

the only blue wire on this flyback is soldered from one end of the 47meg and runs up to the vert board it shows this in both sams and the rca schematic. i think maybe the problem is different color wires were used for the clone and rca. looking at the coil of the fly the bottom lead #1 goes to the #2 of the f coil and the top lead #2 goes to #1 of the f coil and on the 100k resistor, also on that tap is a red wire and that goes under the chassis to the 1.5meg and on to the .12 cap. the other blue wire is from the yoke and that is in the correct place. weather top or bottom wire the numbers on the fly are right with the numbers on the f coil . at least what both rca and sams shows as to what number terminals go where from fly to f coil.

either way its all in the right place. the .12 cap i could not get a .12 so moyer gave me 2 different caps to make up this 12 , and i also had changed the .15 cap maybe these are bad. my problem is i dont want to switch a wire from one place to another by placing what appears to be boost on one terminal and putting it on another when both schematics show it is correct now. i just want to be sure as to the wires with colors for the crt cathodes because i will check this with the color drives at minimum .the last time i check if im right with the cathodes , the yellow wires, they ranged from 280v 276v 245v.

you need to know if the fly is wired properly. that means you need to determine if the blue lead of the yoke is connected to the bottom of the fly winding.

did you confirm the bottom of the fly yet?

[QUOTE=DaveWM;3124016]you need to know if the fly is wired properly. that means you need to determine if the blue lead of the yoke is connected to the bottom of the fly winding.

did you confirm the bottom of the fly yet?[/QUOTE ok what shows on the sams is that the blue wire from the yoke is at the bottom of the fly interconnected with a red under the chassis which comes up and is on terminal # 2 labeled on the fly so it is correct.

Timmy - Do you still have the flyback that you removed from this tv....?

.

nol i dont have it i sold it to someone and it was fine and worked ok.

Yes I mean microamps. Sorry bout that.

i did already check a few resistors around the 12by7 video output tube only to find they were ok. i also tried another good 12by7.

the way you outline how to do the grey scale is correct and it is also explained the same way in my sams here and doing it this way does not work because having to use the bias pot for a color to show and doing it by the book , this is when blooming and the rgb lines occur and its just a mess, and the hv drops even more if i set it up the right way.

ok here are voltages with the crt cap plug on bright up, y blue 220v y red 220v y green 237v
w blue 557v w red 557v w green 558v
blue 192 v red 194 v green 190 v
with the other drives , blue and green counterclock the voltages raise up alittle. seems as thought that 557-558v is high with the color pots at minimum. i had done this voltage test with the crt cap off befor but tried it this time with the cap on.

the voltage off the diodes in the PS is 401 volts and i pulled the hot and the damper and there is 410 volts at what looks like pins 2 and 8. and 281 volts at either the last or first pin. if this is any help. i really think its odd that there is never any voltage in the crt just after turning it off anode short to ground there is zero even just turning it off.

You don't seem to understand what I am saying

did you EVER confirm the bottom winding of the fly (please don't reference the sams again). I told you how to do this and squirrel boy expanded on it.

the blue wire from the yoke must be connected to the bottom winding of the fly.

what i seem to be misunderstanding is what you mean by the bottom winding of the fly, could you please tell me what tap to see on a schematic other then testing ohms for this bottom winding. the problem here is i follow the sams and this blue yoke wire appears to be in the right place and if we are not on the same page and i move this wire then i will have fireworks.

i have the miller paper from the focus coil and what it shows is correct for the way its wired and it shows what the taps are, fly , boost source, focus rect, and they are numbered and this is how it is now so with everything using numbers to identify where things go they are where they should be including the blue yoke wire, so maybe i am missing something here like this bottom winding if its the tie strap on the back of the fly where the focus coil get soldered to its numbered and it all checks out even in the rca diagram.

I think he means mean the electrical bottom rather than physical (just to try and be more clear).

I will try to make this as simple as possible.

1) disconnect the wires from the bottom two taps on the fly, I presume they are marked 1 and 2


2) use a ohm meter read the resistance from the horz out plate cap wire to one of the terminals, note the resistance.

3) without moving from the horz out plate cap wire read the next terminal that was disconnected, note the resistance.

I will tell you what next after you do this and report back.


For everyone else talking about CRT pin voltages, remember per Timmy with the CRT anode lead disconnected the MAX voltage he could get with the HV pot maxed out was 22kv (IIRC) this is with the shunt tube connected.

well if electrical bottom of the fly at the focus connections, nothing but that fly wire at the bottom is attached to the f coil and can be seen on the pic as well on page 8 the one above is attached to the blue wire down under the chassis. the same as i have here.

ok I official give up (again). good luck with it.

ok will do that and then report back.

11.5 ohms top wire 10.5 ohms bottom wire both bare no connections on then tested with horiz cap as one test lead.

Hi! Sorry this question is pretty frustrating.

Timmy, I have never seen a flyback from this tv, From the pictures Bill put up
I'm thinking it comes with the tube socket, and a few of the delicate wires off
the transformer are already attached to something so they don't break.....
If so, then you have easily identified tie points.... But since we all can't see
the tv at your place, we need to be sure all the connections are correct.

One way to check is to look at the resistance of each pin on the transformer
and make the assumption that as you add wire to the device, resistance will
increase. To check that you begin with your ohm meter at a known point, and
then work away from that point and see if you get what you expect...

If you look at this transformer, point A and point B are the closest points but
the winding is the largest, so putting your meter across A+B you will get a
starting resistance.

Write that down A+B= ?

Then take the ohm meter lead from point B and put it on point C This will
be a new total: It ill be A+B+C= Your meter will be on point A and C for this total.

Write that number down A+B+C=?

Now this is the tricky part, the bottom of the transformer is D But the largest
resistance reading looks like it should be between A and F. Now to me
I think Winding D and F are a separate winding.

It looks like both bottom coils are center tapped, so since the both coils lower
than the center tap should be very short, and parallel to point Resistance
between point D and E should be very small..

Write down resistance D to E =?

Also resistance between C and F should be almost twice the resistance of D to E

Write down resistance C to F =?

This is one way to find the bottom of the transformer. We're trying to confirm that point D
has been connected where it belongs.... I would be ok if you had the old transformer
and we could measure the points off it, without dis connecting these points
to make resistance readings...... But since you don't, you might want to
make these checks....

But before you go, I want you to know I am still concerned with the lack of HV on
the tube after you power down the set.... To that point Have you ever checked to
be sure that the correct heater windings go to the right tubes of the 4 tubes right
there..... It may be possible that something wired wrong there would be a bleed
off the HV when the set powers off..... And I have also been trying to still look for a
good reason why the 1 meg ohm resistor feeding the focus voltage burnt in half.....

Good luck with checking this stuff. You are very persistant with this set.....

.

i dont know these resistances are very close and if i use what the sams says as a reference one is kind of high. hope im looking at it right one is 9.3 and the other 1.0 dont look like what i measured,hmmm