Videokarma.org TV - Video - Vintage Television & Radio Forums

Videokarma.org TV - Video - Vintage Television & Radio Forums (http://www.videokarma.org/index.php)
-   Early Color Television (http://www.videokarma.org/forumdisplay.php?f=36)
-   -   ctc12 clone beam current (http://www.videokarma.org/showthread.php?t=263284)

DaveWM 01-17-2015 02:07 PM

well I will try one last time since you answered the question.

the 11.5 is where the blue lead for the yoke should go it is the bottom of the fly. aka point D on SB's photo.

the 10.5 is point E in the photo.

timmy 01-17-2015 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaveWM (Post 3124052)
well I will try one last time since you answered the question.

the 11.5 is where the blue lead for the yoke should go it is the bottom of the fly. aka point D on SB's photo.

i think i need a drink but i dont drink ,lol,lol the 11.5 was the top and that is where the blue wire via connected under the chassis was and it looks like the same in bills photo, the top tab. so you are saying the lower ohms is where it should go, but it then changes the connection on the focus coil.

DaveWM 01-17-2015 02:18 PM

11.5 is the bottom of the fly ELECTRICLY REPEAT ELECTRICLY, ONE MORE TIME ELECTRICLY.

this is where the blue lead from the yoke should be connected. if it is then fine.

look at the schematic to you see the bottom of the fly, that is the ELECTRIC bottom of the fly. I dont know how to be more clear on this.

DaveWM 01-17-2015 02:21 PM

if you are saying you have it hooked up right, blue lead the the ELECTRIC bottom of the fly then I can offer no more insights other than making sure the focus coil is ELECTRICLY connected right. I am not sure if that could mess with the boost voltage enough to screw up the bias voltage to the shunt.

timmy 01-17-2015 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Username1 (Post 3124049)
Hi! Sorry this question is pretty frustrating.

Timmy, I have never seen a flyback from this tv, From the pictures Bill put up
I'm thinking it comes with the tube socket, and a few of the delicate wires off
the transformer are already attached to something so they don't break.....
If so, then you have easily identified tie points.... But since we all can't see
the tv at your place, we need to be sure all the connections are correct.

One way to check is to look at the resistance of each pin on the transformer
and make the assumption that as you add wire to the device, resistance will
increase. To check that you begin with your ohm meter at a known point, and
then work away from that point and see if you get what you expect...

If you look at this transformer, point A and point B are the closest points but
the winding is the largest, so putting your meter across A+B you will get a
starting resistance.

Write that down A+B= ?

Then take the ohm meter lead from point B and put it on point C This will
be a new total: It ill be A+B+C= Your meter will be on point A and C for this total.

Write that number down A+B+C=?

Now this is the tricky part, the bottom of the transformer is D But the largest
resistance reading looks like it should be between A and F. Now to me
I think Winding D and F are a separate winding.

It looks like both bottom coils are center tapped, so since the both coils lower
than the center tap should be very short, and parallel to point Resistance
between point D and E should be very small..

Write down resistance D to E =?

Also resistance between C and F should be almost twice the resistance of D to E

Write down resistance C to F =?

This is one way to find the bottom of the transformer. We're trying to confirm that point D
has been connected where it belongs.... I would be ok if you had the old transformer
and we could measure the points off it, without dis connecting these points
to make resistance readings...... But since you don't, you might want to
make these checks....

But before you go, I want you to know I am still concerned with the lack of HV on
the tube after you power down the set.... To that point Have you ever checked to
be sure that the correct heater windings go to the right tubes of the 4 tubes right
there..... It may be possible that something wired wrong there would be a bleed
off the HV when the set powers off..... And I have also been trying to still look for a
good reason why the 1 meg ohm resistor feeding the focus voltage burnt in half.....

Good luck with checking this stuff. You are very persistant with this set.....

.

the resistor that burned in half was the 100k across the f coil.

Username1 01-17-2015 02:27 PM

OH, ok, my mistake...

Timmy, you may have to just make a map with resistance readings like the diagram I posted....
From Bill's picture I can't see all the wires, Only people familiar with this set like you and others
not me know what this looks like....

.

timmy 01-17-2015 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaveWM (Post 3124055)
11.5 is the bottom of the fly ELECTRICLY REPEAT ELECTRICLY, ONE MORE TIME ELECTRICLY.

this is where the blue lead from the yoke should be connected. if it is then fine.

look at the schematic to you see the bottom of the fly, that is the ELECTRIC bottom of the fly. I dont know how to be more clear on this.

well i do understand what your saying but if i move this wire to the bottom then it is now on a tap of the focus coil that dont belong there it shows both in the sams and the rca diagram, so i am alittle apprehensive about moving this wire for fear of burning the f coil or something else. if bill was able to take another pic of the connections on his chassis of the f coil we will be able to see why and what im saying here. obviously you guys know a hell of alot more then me but thankfully there is schematics to try to make sure and this is what im afraid of doing . the only connections on the f coil are 1 2 3 4 is not used and wont have anything on it.

DaveWM 01-17-2015 02:49 PM

look, you have to connect the yoke blue lead (boost) to the 11.5 ohm lug. THEN you have to hook up the focus coil CORRECTLY.

If you are worried about burning things up, just put the meter in the cathode of the horz out and keep an eye on the current, if it starts to go north of 210 pull the plug. Good thing about tubes is they are not instant.

Quit looking at the numbers on the Sams, hook up the coils ELECTRICLY correct per the schematic on the focus coil the the ELECTRICLY correct fly terminals.

Username1 01-17-2015 02:49 PM

You should be very careful before committing to moving any wires....
You need to get more pictures of this either from Bill, someone else, check
the other tv you have, I got several schematics off the internet a lot of
the ctc 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15's look a lot alike in the flyback area.....

.

timmy 01-17-2015 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaveWM (Post 3124061)
look, you have to connect the yoke blue lead (boost) to the 11.5 ohm lug. THEN you have to hook up the focus coil CORRECTLY.

If you are worried about burning things up, just put the meter in the cathode of the horz out and keep an eye on the current, if it starts to go north of 210 pull the plug. Good thing about tubes is they are not instant.

Quit looking at the numbers on the Sams, hook up the coils ELECTRICLY correct per the schematic on the focus coil the the ELECTRICLY correct fly terminals.

this is what im tring to explain the f coil is connected correctly i have went over it so many times now the only thing different is moving the yoke blue to the bottom lug it then becomes wrong as far as the f coil goes, the f coil is numbered and the boost does not show it as on that terminal both from the miller paper as well as the 2 schematics.

timmy 01-17-2015 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Username1 (Post 3124062)
You should be very careful before committing to moving any wires....
You need to get more pictures of this either from Bill, someone else, check
the other tv you have, I got several schematics off the internet a lot of
the ctc 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15's look a lot alike in the flyback area.....

.

the other tvs i have is a ctc15 clone without the tube for a rectfier and the other is a ctc16 clone.

DaveWM 01-17-2015 03:06 PM

It is NOT connected correctly IF you reversed the fly lugs. the two ELECTRICLY speaking bottom lugs connect to the focus coil (D and E on SB's photo).

You just have to figure out which lug is which between the schematic and the coil and connect it right ELECTRICLY.

timmy 01-17-2015 03:06 PM

so if i am going to put the boost to the 11.5 well then it was correct all along except it was not the bottom, on this fly its the one above that checks 11.5 not the bottom.lol,lol........

timmy 01-17-2015 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaveWM (Post 3124067)
It is NOT connected correctly IF you reversed the fly lugs. the two ELECTRICLY speaking bottom lugs connect to the focus coil (D and E on SB's photo).

You just have to figure out which lug is which between the schematic and the coil and connect it right ELECTRICLY.

i did this already but being this boost is said to be on the bottom goes against what im reading. so if i took the 2 from the fly and reversed them then that would be moving the boost wire to another internal tap of the fly and would leave the terminal in question on the f coil alone, right? it would then be using the 11.5 ohms.

DaveWM 01-17-2015 03:12 PM

look timmy, the schematic says the blue yoke lead (boost)goes the the lead that is the most distant from the horz out lead correct? yes or no?

Now if that is yes and you get 10.5 on one lug and 11.5 on the other RELATIVE to the horz out lead, which do you think is the most distant? the 10.5 or the 11.5?

just answer that, then I will respond with the next in the logical sequence.

I just want to make sure the fly is hooked up right.

Username1 01-17-2015 03:12 PM

Well if your ohm meter has the resolution...

A to D should be higher ohms than A to E

that is one way of identifying point E It has the higher resistance when measured
from point A. See the center tap Point E It's closer to A.

.

Username1 01-17-2015 03:14 PM

Dave what are you thinking about A to F ??
Would that be the farthest from point A ???

If it's just between D and E then forget it.

.

DaveWM 01-17-2015 03:16 PM

B to D = 11.5 per timmy I think, if so D is the boost/yoke/shunt reg
B to E = 10.5 per timmy I think, if so E is the one that goes to the focus lug 2

timmy 01-17-2015 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaveWM (Post 3124071)
look timmy, the schematic says the blue yoke lead (boost)goes the the lead that is the most distant from the horz out lead correct? yes or no?

Now if that is yes and you get 10.5 on one lug and 11.5 on the other RELATIVE to the horz out lead, which do you think is the most distant? the 10.5 or the 11.5?

just answer that, then I will respond with the next in the logical sequence.

I just want to make sure the fly is hooked up right.

11.5 would be farther

DaveWM 01-17-2015 03:19 PM

ok so that is the one that is the boost/yoke/shunt etc..

now the other one the 10.5 is the one that goes the the electric lug 2 of the focus coil, do you agree that it is the next one up (ELECTRICLY) from the boost per the schematic?

do you follow this, does what I say make sence when you look at the schematic now? disregarding the number or physical location of the lower two lugs on the fly?

timmy 01-17-2015 03:23 PM

yes i agree that one measured 10.5 next up higher little less ohms and yes lug 2 of the f coil.

Username1 01-17-2015 03:24 PM

Hey !

You other 15 people watchin' ! Yah you !

We doin the right thing here ! ! ???

Any of ya got pictures of these connections yer willing to put up....?
.

timmy 01-17-2015 03:29 PM

:smoke::smoke::smoke:

DaveWM 01-17-2015 03:30 PM

ok so you have the blue lead from the yoke and the #1 of the focus coil to the 11.5 fly lug

the 10.5 fly lug is connected to the #2 of the focus coil. Nothing else is on the 10.5 fly lug correct?

is that correct?

timmy 01-17-2015 03:31 PM

hey squirrel boy what part of orange county are from?

timmy 01-17-2015 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaveWM (Post 3124080)
ok so you have the blue lead from the yoke and the #1 of the focus coil to the 11.5 fly lug

the 10.5 fly lug is connected to the #2 of the focus coil. Nothing else is on the 10.5 fly lug correct?

is that correct?

#2 f coil was on the lug that tested 11.5 ohms nothing else on that one

Username1 01-17-2015 03:39 PM

Pine Bush / Montgomery.
2 minor specs on the map..

.

timmy 01-17-2015 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Username1 (Post 3124083)
Pine Bush / Montgomery.
2 minor specs on the map..

.

oh ok my son goes to school in pinebush. i am there in pinebush 4 times a week.

Username1 01-17-2015 03:49 PM

I'm sorry.......... You should get him out before any real damage is done....

.

DaveWM 01-17-2015 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by timmy (Post 3124082)
#2 f coil was on the lug that tested 11.5 ohms nothing else on that one

ok that was wrong. Do you now understand what to do?

per the schematic with the now correct understanding of which is the correct lugs of the fly?

timmy 01-17-2015 03:53 PM

yes i think so here goes, the lead that is supposed to be the boost and the blue wire from the yoke i have to put it on the other leg that measures 11.5 and then wire the f coil the right way, which would be just reversing 2 connections on the f coil, am i correct ?

timmy 01-17-2015 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Username1 (Post 3124085)
I'm sorry.......... You should get him out before any real damage is done....

.

well hes only in 2nd grade ,lol,

DaveWM 01-17-2015 03:56 PM

you have to look at it, I am not there so I do not know, just wire it according to the schematic now that you know the correct lug PER the schmatic. But I would guess yes you need to reverse the focus 1 and 2 since you orig had the fly wired backwards.

timmy 01-17-2015 03:57 PM

:Dwell i have to take a break i need to bring my son to his mom in PINEBUSH.......

timmy 01-17-2015 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaveWM (Post 3124089)
you have to look at it, I am not there so I do not know, just wire it according to the schematic now that you know the correct lug PER the schmatic. But I would guess yes you need to reverse the focus 1 and 2 since you orig had the fly wired backwards.

so you still suggest using the 11.5 for the blue wire thing? what was wired wrong was the heater connections on the 1v2 originally when i found that mix up in the focus circuit

DaveWM 01-17-2015 03:59 PM

11.5 goes to boost/yoke and lug 1 of F coil

10.5 goes to lug 2 only of F coil

Username1 01-17-2015 04:08 PM

~~~ I guess were going to have a bit of an intermission now ~~~~

.

DaveWM 01-17-2015 04:40 PM

I got the pop corn out.


Timmy are you sure you have the lugs identified correctly on the focus coil?
there should have been a paper with instructions on it. generally the 1st lug clockwise of the red dot is 1, then continue clockwise for the rest.

there is generally a ref dot of paint to make sure you have it oriented correctly.

then you still should use the paper instructions, they tell which goes to boost, which goes to the 130 pf cap etc...

DaveWM 01-17-2015 04:47 PM

when you feel like you have it all correct do the following:

Before power up
get the HV prob setup and in place.
have the horz out cathode meter in place to read the current
have the diddle stick in the eff coil ready to adjust
reset the HV pot to mid range.
check for any loose wires or solder blobs
check the wiring again.
have a B+ meter on the B+ 400v test point on the chroma board.

make sure all the cap leads (horz out, shunt tube) are in place
make sure the convergence board is plugged in
make sure the CRT anode is attached and will not fall out from the HV prob.

all tubes in sockets, CRT socket attached, kids/pets all accounted for...

power on:
check B+ should come right up to 400+ maybe spike higher until tubes warm up.
watch the horz out cathode current, should rise to about 200ma, if it goes over 210ma unplug set.
watch for smoke
hopefully you will hear the crackle of the HV and you will be able to set it up correctly with the HV pot now.

timmy 01-17-2015 05:59 PM

well let me just say that the blue wire boost is to go on the 11.5 lug, and #1 on the f coil ok , but this is where it was, it was on the 11.5 lug all along its just that it was not the bottom wire so i really cant move anything because i can move the wire to the bottom lug but that was the 10.5 on the #2 f coil lug. you said it was to go to the lug with the higher ohms and this is what i had explained i think on 2 pages back. and yes i know i was going to take all those precautions. the f coil is numbers 1234 and the miller paper shows it but my coil here has no mark except the mount key so i use the #4 to identify the proper sequence in numbers along with the sams , shows the shape of the lugs on the coil and #4 lug.i am not ignorant but i really am confused.


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:35 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2026, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
©Copyright 2012 VideoKarma.org, All rights reserved.