Your screen snap off of the Curtis Mathes is awesome.

I always enjoy looking at those early 1960's sets. That's a period in TV history that most people ignore..

Keep up the good work!

Actually, the cabinet on the Zenith just needs cleaning. Lots of dust in that basement.

Been through the whole entire thread and all I can say is WOW THAT'S A LOT OF GREAT OLD ROUNDIE COLOUR SETS, BLOODY AWSOME :D :D :D !!!!!!

I've saved all the pics to my hard disk as I'm in a habit of doing that with old TVs and video recorders that are of interest to me off EBAY, websites, and forums, got over 600 hundred colour TV pics from the 50s and 60s.

Keep'em coming :D :D :D !!!!!

In case you haven't already, check out the members gallery, horizontal hold page.

My RCA CTC-16. The cabinet isn't in the greatest shape. This pic is after disassembly.

I like the design of that 16... really groovy looking. :smoke: How was the insides? Would it fire up?

The chroma board had issues, like bad solder jounts and warping. Otherwise it's OK. I did undo several questionable repairs, including replacing the CRT socket (the lead was wrapped around pin 9). On the test rig, I get decent activity, but not that great. I need to disammeble the VHF tuner assembly to do a clean and lube. The wafers inside are still not cleaned to my satisfaction. I will replace all lytics and caps on the sweep and chroma boards. The CRT checked good on all three guns. This cabinet is not original to my chassis (the other was rain damaged), and it has some scratches. Unfortunately, it's masonite. I'll post pics after restoration.

'64 Packard Bell
 

Hi Steve,
Did You ever turn on that new Packard Bell color TV? I am hoping you videotaped it coming on. I think many people would love to see that happening. I am just starting to collect older things and I think your set is the greatest item I have ever seen to bring back 1964. If I had that set I would get tapes of The Ed Sullivan Show with The Beatles and since that is B/W I'd also get The Dean Martin Show or any color broadcast from then with correct commercials. I'd invite family and friends to see my new color TV!
If you ever want to part with it I would be generous.
Thanks, John

John,
I have never powered it up, no. It's the same as it was when it left the Los Angeles factory in 1964; still has the instructions stapled to the back!

How generous?

John:

Steve D. and I have tried on several occasions to get Steve to fire up that set. Last time I was there I even brought along ther variac. One of these days Steve!

Steve K.

:D Sorry, Steve. I wasn't "ready" yet... I want my first time to be special. :lmao:

'64 Packard-Bell, The ultimate turn on
 

Hoffy,

Whenever you're ready, Steve K. and I will be there. Variac's in hand.

-Steve D.

Hi Guys

including one of the two rca's in New york City east village. Both are 16 one early one late (X) The x it was given to my older sister as a gift, needs to be deliver to florida.
GE color tv are very cool!

Information
 

Would anybody know where I could get information about a, Grundig Super Color Cinema cuc 820 kt 9050 GB please

'64 Packard Bell color set
 

Hi Steve,
Wow, that's great it is still available. Seems like we should arrange some big event to show it being turned on with plans to immediately repair in front of everybody and show that new set to some deserving eyes. I am sending you a PM.
Thanks, John

Welcome, Barry & Bluenorm to our little crazyhouse here..Norm, that's a REAL purty set you got there..Barry, we got a member, Yagosaga, who's in Germany, & may be able to shed some light on yr set. You might try PMing him...Again, welcome guys ! If you have a strange affliction/affection for old round color sets, this is THE place to be.-Sandy G.

CRT neck break
 

Sounds like the yoke should be removed whenever those sets are transported as I expect even gentle shaking from a truck-bed could put a micro crack in an imperfect neck.

I had the same thing happen on a 21fjp22 rebuild that had low hours on it. Broke right where the new gun and neck was spiced together. That was over 20 years ago. To this day I am still very careful with rebuilt tubes.

Sylvania 31C606 color score ...
 

A friend and fellow collector, semi-local to my area, recently scored two 1958 Sylvania color models belonging to the 31C606 series. They're 31C606MU (full-size console) with the then-optional UHF tuner installed and 31C606M (resembling a tabletop with tall detachable legs). We checked the CRT's yesterday and his 31C606MU was blessed with a serviceable CRT and produced a raster after its soft-start. He's not quite comfortable with attempting a recap of a color chassis himself, so he and I worked out a trade where I'll be replacing all the "bumblebee" caps and bringing his obviously-restorable set back to life in exchange for its 31C606M sister set whose CRT will need to be replaced, since I've recapped color sets before and he's afraid that the critical lead dress considerations of a color set might get him into trouble in the IF and/or Chroma since it would be his first time recapping a color set. There was another set in the way, so I couldn't get a good camera angle on his Sylvania roundie. Here's a shot of my "barter score", though, which is its "little sister" in a somewhat smaller cabinet without the UHF option installed.

Very interesting set, what a great score! Is this a Sylvania design, or a RCA clone chassis?

John,

Very nice find. And a pair of them no less. Your set looks to be the Sylvania table/consolette model 31T304 "The Granada." The other, as you mentioned, is the Sylvania console model 31C606 "The Saratoga." I believe Sylvania only produced the two models starting in 1957. Both were available in Mahogany and Blonde Korina finishes. The control layout above the screen would suggest this is a Sylvania designed chassis.

-Steve D.

I've seen this happen on 2 sets, and I'm blaming the blue lateral magnet, but only if that's where the break occurred. Think about it folks, the magnet is held by a brass strap (bad), which is then secured by a steel spring wrapped around the neck, worse!! When that assembly gets moved around on the neck, especially one that's dirty, it causes minute scratches. Enter heating & cooling (expansion & contraction) due to the filaments, and anyone who has cut glass in the past will know what's bound to occur next: a crack. The crack will form in a perfect circle around the neck, and the neck will fall off after loss of vacuum. Symptom on one set was dim & blurry picture. I then saw the ring crack under the BL magnet. I immediately slid the mag forward, cleaned the glass with Windex, and applied a bead of silicone. Fixed. I let the set operate for a few hours, and the getters mopped up whatever air leaked in, and was once again rewarded with a beautiful picture. I know that set was watched for a least 1.5 - 2 years before something else failed, and the set was pitched. Yes, I wish I still had that set, but that was 29 years ago, and nobody wanted roundies back then. The crack did not form at a neck splice, as these were both OEM tubes.

If that's the case, then the back cover on mine must not be its original. The tag attached to the back bears "31C606M" as the Model number. I guess now in addition to a replacement 21AXP22, I'll have to find an original 31T304 back.

It's an original Sylvania design, and quite a primitive one in comparison to most other color sets of the same year. Sylvania used a passive HV shunt regulation device on this chassis when I seem to recall that the active shunt regulator tube (6BK4) had been available for some time and had been used by RCA on all color designs since the CTC-4. The power switch and the channel selector use linear "lever" actuators. In fact, the channel selector operates the tuner in a "ratchet-like" manner. Pressing the spring-loaded lever to the right ratchets the channel selector incrementally (2 , 3 , 4, ..., 12, 13, 2) in only the forward direction.

When the 21AXP22 was connected to the CRT tester, it produced the telltale "neck fireworks" of a slow-leaker gone to air. The phosphor is undisturbed, though, so that tube might eventually become rebuildable. Does anyone know whether Hawk-Eye has achieved successful rebuilds of slow-leaker tubes since discovering the VacuSeal product?

"If that's the case, then the back cover on mine must not be its original. The tag attached to the back bears "31C606M" as the Model number. I guess now in addition to a replacement 21AXP22, I'll have to find an original 31T304 back."

John,

Check the back on your friends console. Maybe the backs were swapped at one time.

-Steve D.

Already checked. The label on my set shows 31C606M (the non-UHF version of the full-size console) and Todd's is marked 31C606MU (the UHF version)Since both sets were from the same retired Sylvania affiliate, my best guess is that the 31C304 may have suffered damage to its back cover at some time in its service history, requiring a replacement back. Since the backs of both cabinet styles are identical (except for the decal), and directly interchangeable mechanically, a surplus 31C606M back may have been installed in its place.

Here's one I scored some time ago from the attic of a now-defunct parts distributor in Youngstown. It's a Philco 16M91 chassis, which looks to me to be a licensed clone of an RCA CTC-20. The Sams is in Set 835 and the one for the RCA is in 837, and they're very similar. I set this one aside because the base had been detached from the 21FJP22 and the tube tested on the weak side when I connected my Heathkit tester to it with the "universal leads" adaptor. I recently pulled it out of the corner where it had been tucked away, though, in hopes of either tracking down an affordably-priced replacement 21FJP22 or that "waking up" the one in the set might be feasible as a temporary fix until I can fit the cost of a rebuild into my budget. Besides the detached CRT base, the 6JE6 was missing from its socket. Cosmetically, the set is in pretty good shape, so I'm revisiting the possibility of getting it going by the end of the summer.

I had planned to substitute a known-good spare 21FJP22 after its cataract surgery, but it was determined after the surgery that the safety glass from that tube had so many scratches that it was unusable. The delaminated tube will be substituted into the Sylvania set from my earlier post instead, just as Todd's similar Sylvania had been retrofitted with a 21FBP22 when its original 21AXP22 failed.

Later this week, Jamie and I are planning a "road trip" to pick up three Zenith roundie sets and some other items that I arranged to buy from someone in NY. Two are in cosmetically "Good" condition, the third is "Fair" cosmetically. None of them are working at the moment, but the plan is to salvage parts from any that don't seem to be likely candidates for restoration due to, for example, a faux-finish cabinet in rough condition and transplant those parts to save the other two and perhaps transplant a 95-2263 injection coil into my 24MC32 whose coil is broken (mentioned in another thread).

Here are some photos of the Philco.

Those are some very nice sets John, It looks like you have some rare birds including the Dumont ETF score. Good work! Too bad all the old pictures are gone, this thread would be awesome to look at.

John,

Nice looking Philco. I like the clean contempory lines. The 1966 Philco is close, but not an exact clone of the RCA CTC-20 chassis. The chassis in the Philco has a different layout and utilizes several different tube types in various circuits. Not sure if Philco took the basic RCA CTC-20 and redesigned it to their own specs. From the look of the similar front RCA knobs, it may have been built for Philco by RCA.

-Steve D.

Not Yet!

John Folsom and I are still in the process of working on the 15G project, and if and when we have a success with a non-leaker, we will then attempt to seal a leaker. If we are successful, then the process might be tried on 21AX leakers also.

Hawkeye does not do independent experimentation. If you want to try and experiment, then you plunk down your money and give it a try. So far nobody has put up the money for any 21AX experiments, and John and I are only into funding our own research on the 15GP22.(many thousands down the toilet at this point, but we know a lot of things that will not work) So if you have some money to throw away, feel free to join the party and experiment with your money and your dud. Scotty will be happy to try it FOR A PRICE. Last I heard a 21ax rebuild was $650 You would be better off looking for a 21ax dud under vacuum and then spending the money on a rebuild of that dud.

Good Luck!
Bob

We're in upstate NY this weekend. The three Zenith roundie sets I mentioned before turned out to be in pretty rough cosmetic condition, but complete. I bought them despite that the faux finishes were in worse shape than I had hoped, though. All three sets' CRTs are apparently still under vacuum, so some potentially usable bottles are always good to have, cabinets are structurally sound despite the worn finishes, and the sets will at least make good parts donors. Also among the score were two TIC model 1200A "Wobbulator" production-line Sweep/Marker generators, excellent for aligning Mallory Inductuners as used in Dumont B/W sets. Pushbutton presets for all channels and markers make them a snap to use, after I find time and documentation to get them recapped and calibrated. Also among the items I scored was a good used 21GVP22 "pull" CRT. The best item of this score, though (drumroll please) was a NOS/NIB Philco 21FJP22A!!! That alone was worth the price of the lot and the five-hour drive for pickup!

More info and pics later.

The Zenith model 5315 (chassis 24MC32) from the New York score proved to be in the worst shape of the three. It's in a badly-scratched cabinet with a faux finish which will be quite difficult to save. Something had obviously clobbered the back cover, also, as is fairly obvious from breaks in the Masonite and a large hole in the neck shield. I glued what was left of the shield back together with epoxy to protect the usable 21FBP22 inside while the set is in storage. That set will be put aside pending my decision to attempt saving the cabinet. For now, its p/n 95-2263 Chroma Injection transformer was transplanted into my Zenith model 5415 (also a 24MC32 chassis) shown here, since the original Chroma transformer was broken beyond repair before I acquired the set. This set's cabinet is in much better condition.

This set holds special significance for me, in the form of childhood memories. As I've posted here before, my grandparents owned several Zenith "roundie" sets years ago. Somewhere in photo albums at my parents' house are some photos of me at about my grandson's age, taken at my grandparents' house with one of their Zenith "roundie" sets clearly visible in the background. Next time my grandson visits, I'm sure there will be a snapshot taken of him either by me or my parents where this set will be in the background. Family tradition? As some already know, "Lost in Space" is my all-time favorite TV series. Since the first time I had seen one of the 54 color episodes of "Lost in Space" on a color set was at my grandparents' house on their Zenith roundie, my choice of DVD's to play for these pics was obvious. This was the third-season episode where the Robinsons finally return to Earth, only to discover that their having exceeded the speed of light has carried them back in time to 1947, to a small town in Michigan where no one has even seen a television yet except in a Popular Mechanics article.

One of my favorite features of this and similar Zenith sets is the "rear projection channel dial" where the dial lamp projects the image of the selected channel number into the indicator window at the center of the knob.

Here are the promised pics of the NY Road Trip scores. In addition to the cracked back cover and broken neckguard, the model 5315 (24MC32) is also missing its metal service-access cover from the bottom of its cabinet. The 27KC20 and 25LC30 sets I scored have their cover plates, however, and it appears that all of the "roundie" models from the "K-series" to at least the "M-series" used identical access panels. If I decide to restore this model 5315 despite its rough cabinet, I'll just have my local metal fabrication consultant make a repro from one of the other sets' bottom plates. Scoring a replacement neckguard or having a repro made will be substantially more difficult, since I'm not aware of any plastics companies where it can be done economically (without an outrageously high minimum quantity and/or mold-making fee). The legs of all three sets are present, but stored in a box temporarily. The VHF knob for the 5315 is also present, but on the bench waiting for epoxy to dry after repair of its cracked knob skirt. All three sets are blessed with good CRT's (21FBP22's, thus immune from cataracts). The 25LC30 has a genuine wood veneer finish, so it can be refinished in the usual manner. The 27KC20 and 24MC32 are another story, as the faux finish will be next to impossible to save. About the only way is to refinish the moldings, cut replacement panels from 1/8" cabinet-grade plywood, and finish the panels to match. Here are the two CRT's also. I'll be double-boxing the used 21GVP22 and its support box in a replacement outer box, since the outer box we used to protect it on the trip home sustained some rain damage when the tarps shifted and that box had to be trashed when we unloaded the truck. It's packed with large styrofoam blocks supporting the bell of the tube inside the Zenith TV box. A suitable outer box and cardboard/foam inserts will be used to protect the neck as we did on the trip home.

Now, all I need to score are a 29JC20 and a 25NC33 to have an all-series'-represented Zenith roundie collection (featuring at least one model from each "roundie" series from "J-series" to "N-series"). Getting there! I'm sure Doug must already have reached that milestone with his collection. I think he has the largest collection of Zenith roundie sets of anyone I've met, unless someone else from the Conventions has a larger collection.

I also have a delaminated 21FJP22 (not pictured here) that I planned to install in the Sylvania 31C304M. I'll still be installing that tube in the Sylvania set, but not for my personal collection. It seems Todd regrets trading his 31C606MU after all, and will be arranging a trade for my delaminated 21FJP22 since it is now identical to a 21FBP22. I'll probably also be recapping that set for him, since he hasn't recapped a color set yet. We'll probably arrange for this to be a teaching opportunity, since he's eager to build upon his experience with radios toward becoming proficient with the more-advanced techniques required for TV and the ultra-advanced demands of color set restoration.

Wow, I think that 5315 is the same model I have. I know for sure the chassis is 24MC32. In fact, I think it might even have been yours at one time!

veg

It seems that my "road trip" scores, in addition to the rare 27KC20, also included a rarely-seen version of the 25LC30. In addition to the genuine wood veneer on its cabinet, the example I scored features an unexpected production variation in its chassis layout. Normally, as shown in the Sams folder for this model/chassis (#722-4), a two-section 80uF/475V+160uF/250V is employed, with its sections arranged as the +410V Filter and lower half of the Doubler respectively. In my example, model 5119 coded 66B26, two separate single-section cans are used with appropriate cutouts provided on the chassis and clearly as a factory-original variation. This discovery was made during setup for routine reforming and performance testing of the set's existing electrolytic capacitor complement.

Incidentally, is anyone familiar with the significance of the five-character codes printed in black ink on the rear covers of these sets and typically consisting of a two-digit number, a letter, and another two-digit number? As stated, this set is coded 66B26. My 5315/24MC32 is coded 67B08, my 5415/24MC32 bears the code 65D12. No code was found on the rear cover of the 5025/27KC20. Until encountering the code on the 5119 which does not fit my initial hypothesis, I had presumed these codes to identify the week of manufacture (65D12 as 4th week of December, 1965; 67B08 as second week of August, 1967). Not only does 66B26 not fit this pattern, but a manufacture date in 1966 for a VHF-only set does not appear to comply with the "All-Channel" requirement which became effective as of April, 1964. Since the set was purchased near the Canadian border, however, it might be possible for the set to have been produced for sale in Canada and thus exempt from rules which were applied only to sets which were to be distributed to American vendors. Such was the case with certain G.E. PortaColor sets manufactured for Canadian markets and only equipped with VHF tuners.

This is in a interesting observation. I'm going to look at various zenith sets of mine and see if I can come up with some kind of logical pattern for that sequence.

The code might also indicate Year/Day/Week such as 66B26 indicating Tuesday of the 26th work week in 1966, again presuming this set was to be shipped to a Canadian dealer, due to the "All Channel" restriction effective April, 1964 for U.S. markets. That explanation also conflicts with the presence of a Service decal bearing the name of a shop with a New York address, however, unless the set was subsequently resold as a "used" item to an American household by its original Canadian owner and eventually serviced at the shop in New York whose label was affixed to the back.

Incidentally, I'm still searching for a Zenith roundie model equipped with Space Command. So far, the only remote-equipped "vintage" set I've ever personally owned was an RCA from the XL-100 era, a CTC-68 chassis, as I remember, that I bought used in the late 80s with its transistorized ultrasonic remote transmitter.

After checking a few sets, I believe its purly coincidental that the numbers appear close to the approximate assembly year of the TV. I checked a '66 Zenith roundie I have, the back was written "Purchased 9-1-66" and the code reads 68G16.

I have a '69 Zenith, the code is 16A14, its a metal cabinet color set, the date stamp inside the set indicates 1-7-69 and the back of the set was written "Installed 1-25-69", incidently that set was hot off the line when it was bought!

As of now, the best way to determine assembly is by original tubes, or if you're lucky, sometimes they have the actual date stamp on the inside of the cabinet. Another way is the filter cans sometimes have date codes as does the 3.58 crystal. Later zeniths have the actual month and day date printed on the delay line.

My CTC-59 has the date on the delay line as well. The RCAs have the model year on the tag, but that doesn't say anything about the actual build date.

-Jim

Another question specific to "roundie" Zenith sets, since I have only seen this set of typically-vacant antenna terminal locations on the backs of Zenith sets from the "roundie" era ...

Many mid-1960s Zenith sets (especially "roundie" Color models) had terminal positions marked VHF, UHF Strips, and UHF Tuner on their terminal boards. Those having UHF tuners always had their UHF terminals inserted into the UHF Tuner positions. Both UHF terminal pairs were left vacant on VHF-only sets. My best guess is that the UHF Strips terminal locations were for use with specially-equipped Space Command sets to allow removal of unused VHF channel segments from the set's tuner turret by a service facility in order to substitute a segment designed to pick up a specific UHF channel or to be preset to a channel within a predefined range like a "pushbutton" car radio, allowing remote access to "favorite" UHF channels without the added complexity of a separate remote tuning function (with the necessary separate relay and drive motor) which a standard UHF tuner would have required. Perhaps channel strips for each of the 70 UHF channels were sold as accessories, or limited-range strips (channels 20-30, 30-40, etc.) were sold to be preset by the service shop to a channel in that range, along with a set of channel number tabs to be installed in the appropriate postion(s) on the knob. A remote set purchased in the Youngstown, OH area might have had its standard 2,3,4, ... 13, UHF, 2 ... sequence modified to provide "instant preset" tuning via remote of 12 active channels in that market (3, 5, 8, 21, 23, 25, 27, 33, 35, 43, 45, 61) or had one or more VHF stations from the Pittsburgh market (2, 4. 9, or 11) substituted if the set's owner rarely or never watched PBS affiliates 25 and 45 and had an antenna capable of receiving Pittsburgh stations clearly from Youngstown. Such an installation might also have been equipped with a manually-operated UHF tuner if a large number of UHF stations were available, which would then receive the last channel manually tuned on its dial each time the remote-operated turret tuner was set to the UHF position.

Are there any Zenith experts here who can provide some insight, perhaps direct from a service manual or other OEM reference materials?

I think you're right-seems like there was a discussion about this before, I think on the ARF. I do have some dial inserts for ch. 16 which went with strips, for a Zenith. They seem to predate the sets in question, though. Somewhere in my "archives" the story must be written down...too much digging for now.