2009 HDTV conversion.
 

In one of the other threads about this, ( I cannot find it now), I mentioned that satellite and cable customers may not have to worry until 2012. I have found out that this is true, at least for your local stations. They are required to carry analog versions until 2012. See the quote below:

"A Federal Communication Commission rule issued this fall requires satellite and cable television companies to provide local programming for their analog customers through 2012. As a result, those television viewers likely won’t see substantial changes come Feb. 17, 2009."

This is from the article:

http://www.wacotrib.com/news/content...digitalTV.html

From reading the article, it still sounds like the turnoff of NTSC analog is going to be a disaster, with many upset people.

I just ordered the cheap (2-12) basic cable and high speed internet through Comcast. The first thing they told me was that they were going digital and then wanted to sell me a digital package. I told them that I still wanted the cheap basic cable. That low end cable consist of the local stations, WGN, CW, and a couple of home shopping channels. It's nice to know that the locals will still be in analog via cable for a few more years. They're coming Thursday to hook it up; so, we'll see how it goes...

The phrase "required to provide programming for analog customers" may not truly mean they have to provide direct multiple analog channels into a TV's tuner. It could mean they can comply by providing a traditional analog-channel-3-output cable box. I have not read any of the rules for cable TV. Certainly, for satellite-TV providers (Dish Network and DirecTV), my description of complying is the only way they could do it (other than/in addition to A/V outputs on boxes), since they have never had any analog signals on their systems.

Cable companies will be completely unaffected by the 2009 date. They can keep using NTSC for as long as they want, or they could go completely digital tomorrow if they wanted to. Another little mentioned fact is that low power NTSC stations will remain on the air in 2009.

Making cable companies provide analog until 2012 is brilliant! That way, only the hermit/kooks/weirdos without cable will be bitching come 2009. By 2012, what can ya do...? The frequencies will have been sold, and digital will be entrenched.

According to the article, the FCC is requiring local channels to be available to your TV in NTSC analog format until 2012. This is if you are a Satellite or Cable customer. It may be done as ChrisW6ATV indicates or by some other method. The cable/satellite companies may try to defeat the spirit of the ruling by raising the cost, but the local channel NSTC analog signals must be available until 2012 on your cable/satellite system

As Andy indicates, there is also no requirement for the cable/satellite companies to stop using NSTC analog, they my use it as long as they desire.

Scientific American had an article on this about 6 months ago. Analog "should" be available for quite a number of years to come.

It is unimaginable that everybody will go replace all the TVs in their house in the next 3 or 4 years. One of the things cable will have to offer to their customers are analog channels. The number of analog channels will diminish as they add bandwidth hungry digital channels.

But I don't have a single digital tuner in the house out of (TV/VCR/DVR) 9 tuners.

According to the article in the Waco paper, there are around 20 million households who have only broadcast TV, quite a few people available to contact their congressman, etc. According to the same article, there are probably 15 million more housholds who have TVs in their bedroom, etc that are not connected to cable and can receive only broadcast signals(My mother fits this catagory)-more to complain when they cannot watch Jay Leno, etc. just before going to sleep. If the article is anywhere near correct, about the numbers and lack of awareness, the transistion could be a PR disaster for the FCC and congress.

My own opinion is that it is stupid to completely dump something that has worked well for 60 years and turn to a relatively untried system. Phasing it in, allowing for bug fixes and decision reversals if necessary, would be much smarter course. Of course, the big money boys could not get their hands on all the TV spectrum that they want if that was done.

Nobody has to replace their TV...all that's needed worst case is some type of STB.

I had a case of STDs before, and that wasn't much fun. :no:

:D

Coincidently, I talked to someone the other day who was dog-sitting at a house with a digital TV connected to rabbit ears. They said that stronger VHF channels (FOX 2) were ok, but would sometimes lose the sound. Weaker UHF channels like 20 (Ind.) were no-go.

However, won't all DTV be done on UHF? Is this the annoying beeping-flashing I see when I DX around the higher numbered UHF channels?

Canadian TV stations will still be broadcasting analog for anybody close enough to bring a station or two in. I don't think Canada's switching to digital until 2011 or somewhere around that timeframe.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...1198456481.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...1198456430.jpg

Enjoying a Mr. Bean Christmas special on my analog 19" as I type! (Note CBC bug)

Thanks for the good TV Canada!

Can you get Channel 42? (CTV)

That's a good channel, but it's a pain in the ass to bring in, even with a roof antenna...

Why is the FCC getting rid of the NTSC anyway?

$$$$$$$$$$$$$

lol, you think so?

We're The FCC. We're part of the Goverment. We know what's best for you...Resistance is Futile...You are an Individual, therefore, you're an Idiot, WE know what is best....We're The FCC.....

This must be a good night for DX'ing....

I don't usually bother with 42, because it's a lot of CBS re-broadcasts, and I can't think of one of their shows I enjoy. Is there some local content that's worth watching? Here it is:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...1198457907.jpg

Here is 54 (French):

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...1198457904.jpg

32 is a must-have, just for their Saturday night movies:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...1198457898.jpg

This is LPTV Channel 33 from Detroit. Fun to watch just for the amateur factor (like pre-'94 Ch. 62):

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...1198457901.jpg

I have a smallish roof antenna with no rotor. (I might upgrade soon) It's aimed SW, absolutely wrong for those stations. I'm going to miss TV DX'ing come 2009.

The first image is from the TV show Cold Case.

Yes, the episode where some 50s song solves the crime. I hate that I know that... I hate all Jerry Bruckheimer shows, and that's pretty much all of CBS. :thumbsdn:

I can get all those except 42.

There's also a channel 19 that's somewhere in Ohio. there's a channel 55, no clue where it is. There's a channel 22 which is also Canadian.

19 and 55 are impossible to bring in unless you have a damn good tuner, seeing as they're right next to channels 20 and 56...

Okay here's a more on topic question:

I know sattilite boxes have signal strength meters, do HDTV boxes, or HDTV's have signal strength meters as well? omething like that would be damn helpful for figuring out which way to point the antenna...

I've never seen 19, nor 22 nor 55! The tuner in that Zenith splits channels 32 & 33 like a razor.

I get 14 (I think) which is all religious stuff.

23 (Spanish... Univision I think)

31 (LP Ann Arbor I think)

32 (TVO)

33 (LPTV Detroit)

38 (WADL, now called "urban TV"... Been nothing but infomercials since sign on in '89, but now seems to have picked up where 62 left off in '94, plus some old re-runs of Heat of the Night, etc. Overall, a nice change)

42 (CTV)

48 (ION)

54 (French)

66 (LPTV, Religious full-time)

Do you remember channel 78 from Canada? That goes back to the 70s I think.

I skipped the obvious 2, 4, 7, 9, 11, 13, 20, 50, 56, 62.

What city are you in? I'm guessing SW of me in St. Clair Shores?

Carmine is right, $$$$$$$ selling the spectrum.

I think that this is why HD radio does not seem to be taking off(Circuit, Fry's, Radio Shack, etc only seem to carry one home type HD radio model), no spectrum to sell.

16 is the religion channel. 19 is WOIO. I brought it in twice, and have never seen it since. 22 is Global, another Canadian station, very hard to bring in. I have no clue what 55 is. I do know it's not a ghost of 56 though.

As for what city I live in, PM me.

Most ATSC STBs have signal meters that are used for antenna tuning. In my area, all but PBS transmits at 10% of their analog ERP, PBS transmits at 20% of their analog ERP. And yes, the whole reason for this switch is so the FCC can auction off the unused $pectrum. But, even though our government is money hungry, we all can benefit from digital TV if the transmitter power is high enough. Clear picture, EPG, show title, description, and sub channels. All of the modern digital features we got used to with satellite TV. But, TV DXing will be gone, unfortunately. :(

No.

It isn't now, and it won't be during or after 2009.

I haven't checked all the posts but...

The mandate that I read about in Scientific American is that all BROADCAST TV be DIGITAL, not HD. The mandate doesn't affect the way that cable or satellite will be delivered to the customers.

The point was to, a decade late, to get broadcast into digital and turn over the bandwidth for HD.

The cute thing is that our lawmakers, in their ineptitude, or maliciously if you would think so, have left a loophole for the networks to send less than true HD and use the rest of the bandwidth for other commercial gains.

Reminder-this thread was starting by quoting a FCC ruling made this fall, not the mandate. The mandate may not affect cable/satellite operaters, but the ruling does.

Sorry, the thread is titled "2009 HDTV Conversion," whereas it should be 2009 digital broadcast conversion.

That was my point. It isn't HD but Broadcast analog to digital that will be converted.

The first post addressed only local broadcast being delivered to local customers by cable and dish. Which is what the FCC ruled on this fall.

I meant what I posted to be a clarification. There is a lot of confusion on these points.

I have the MPEG-2 standard around here someplace and the HDTV standard pretty much followed it, except for using different sound compression. As near as I remember it incorporates two screen sizes, the HDTV 1080i and the older 525 line system. So transmission will be digital but the screen aspect ratio (4:3) of older sets should be accomodated.

You are correct about the confusion, and not just in this forum. I went to Radio Shack today and was looking at the lone HD radio on display and the clerk was saying that analog radio, as well as analog TV, was ending in 2009 (not at all true). Some customer had told her that. I corrected her.

I probably could have titled the thread better, but just wanted people to know that the 2012 date for cable/satellite is not fiction as some have indicated.

I think that 2012 ruling only forces cable companiess to support analog TVs, it doesn't force them to keep sending analog channels. This just means that they have to give you a cable box with an NTSC RF output if they turn off analog cable. After 2012, we might start seeing cable boxes with only HDMI.

Just to be safe, we should all try to secure a few boxes with RF output just in case they are no longer issued in the coming years. I have 2 or 3 stand alone old style cable boxes floating around here. I'm sure these will be totally worthless when cable does go full digital.

I'm sure someone will make a HDMI to NTSC converter (even though such a device would be illegal).

Interesting article concerning the present situation with HDTV sets.

http://www.eetimes.com/news/latest/s...leID=205200372

Not HDTV, but somewhat related. Anyone have a GM car 2005 or older with On Star? Good luck.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/TECH/12/24/c....ap/index.html

Note the part about analog having greater range than digital. My mothers analog cell phone vs. her digital one(she is in a rural area) is proof of this.

The Gummint giveth, the Gummint taketh away....

And many people called it the "Funny Cookie Corporation"... :nono:

I'll have to fire up my old Motorola "brick" cell phone one last time before it becomes a brick. It's not activated, but it still gets a signal.