RCA CTC-7 Found! - Info Needed...
 

Hello Everyone,

I'm new to this forum but I think I've brought a neat find that I'd like to share in hopes of getting some information back! I was lucky enough to stumble upon an RCA 21-CD-8865U "Anderson" with a CTC-7D chassis at a local estate this week. The elderly couple had a collection of DVD's larger than most people could hope to amass in a lifetime. Obviously they got hooked on television early with this color RCA.

http://people.msoe.edu/~tillichn/ctc/IMG_2973.JPG

Let me start off by saying that I know little about vintage TV's but I've been collecting antique radios since 1996. I've been meaning to get a vintage TV up and running before '09 and when I saw this one was an early color set, I couldn't resist!

http://people.msoe.edu/~tillichn/ctc/IMG_2975.JPG

After looking over the set, I've found some good and some bad.

The good: besides one ding in the front, the cabinet is in pretty good shape. Also, the tube, which is a 21CYP22A LF12312 looks very clean with no noticeable irregularities in the phosphors. Being that the neck is stamped with the RCA Colorama logo I wonder if it was replaced at one time. Furthermore, the chassis is very clean and besides some dust it doesn't look like it's ever seen any repairs. The serial is B8160291 and the chassis is stamped with CTC7D, 7451L1, RVP 274.

Now for the bad: someone clipped another fuse over the original fuse on the chassis, which is blown. To make matters worse, there are some drips of wax coming out of the top of the power transformer. While I haven't cleaned up the chassis or checked any of the tubes, I'm hoping that this problem is nothing more than some short and bad tubes... which is probably what sent this set into the basement in the first place. The flyback looks okay and I see no other damage... but the sky is the limit with TV problems... hence why I rarely work on them.

Which brings me to the part where I ask for some help: when exactly was this set made and how can I go about finding schematics? I see someone posted CTC-7 schematic downloads on this forum some years back but the link is now dead. Does anybody have a copy they could send me? Without schematics I think I am pretty much lost. Thanks in advance!

Great find!

Shame someone jumped the fuse. You'll want to look for a sams photofact. These pretty much give all of the service information necessary to work on them.

You can pull the leads of the power transformer and check the windings with a high resolution ohm meter to make sure the transformer is still alive. If not, there is probably someone here with a parts chassis that can help you. Hell, if I can get a power tranny for a 1963 packard bell roundie, the ctc-7 shouldn't be too hard to get :D

At minimum you should replace all of the main power supply electrolytic capacitors before even attempting to operate the set. A shorted cap would have caused the main fuse to blow in the first place. Also pull the chassis and remove the high voltage cage (big tall metal cage with holes in it) and look at the condition of the flyback transformer. If you see a big puddle of wax, chances are its a gonner.

The colorama is a rebuilt tube. Colorama was RCA's designation for a rebuilt tube, Hi-lite was for a brand new tube. You might want to check the CRT emission too to make sure its still usable.

If you're in the southern california area, particularly San diego county I would be glad to help you with the set. The more of these we can preserve and restore now, the better

Hi, welcome to AK.
I have that exact same model, "Mr Anderson" as I call mine. it's a 1958 model.

Yours is considerably cleaner than mine!

Mine drips wax from the transformer also but the transformer works fine so I think it's just the nature of the beast, the wax is soft and it's on it's side hence it drips after 50 years.

Homina ! Homina ! Homina !

Check your Private Messages, I sent you a link to the service manual.

Eric, thanks for the schematic. Err... actually 50 page service manual - RCA definitely wasn't leaving techs in the dark on these sets!

Thanks Again!

P.S. Filter caps will definitely be in order before power-up. Hopefully I can check tube emissions on my Eico tube tester... it has the TV socket extension but I don't recall too many tubes being in the manual, especially color tubes. I'll be heading home from college next weekend so I will grab my tube tester and update in a week.

WOW!! Lucky enough to find the deluxe chassis set, enjoy the beautiful technicolor picture on that thing when she's all ready to go. And also, welcome to the forum and good luck with that gorgeous set!!

Do you have the screw-in legs that it should be resting on?

Dave A

Hush, dammitt ! I was fixin' to concoct a cock'n'bull story about how there was Absolutely No Way It Could Ever Work w/o the legs, & try to big-deal him into sending it to me... Curses, Foiled Again !! (grin)

Sandy,

I did this query only in the memory of my sainted grandmother Gertrude who was given the same set for Christmas that year by my dad and siblings.

I spent many hours up close to this set as an 8 year old with my feet under the set gathering x-rays similar to the shoe fitting viewer at my Johnson Shoes dealer that my mom brought me to trying to kill me.

Sorry for your conniving loss, but the legs live on for the sake of history and for my early interest in color tv. Still going 50 years later.

Grinning too,

Dave A

Either way that set is a FABULOUS candidate for restoration! Great find, good luck with on your newfound journey...

No. They weren't on or anywhere around the set when I picked it up. I didn't know it originally had legs until I spotted the sockets in my rear view mirror. I was going to return to the estate sale the following day but I had classes all afternoon - so no luck there!

I suppose I could turn some new legs on the lathe if I feel ambitious enough.

Sandy,

I did this query only in the memory of my sainted grandmother Gertrude who was given the same set for Christmas that year by my dad and siblings.

I spent many hours up close to this set as an 8 year old with my feet under the set gathering x-rays similar to the shoe fitting viewer at my Johnson Shoes dealer that my mom brought me to trying to kill me.

Sorry for your conniving loss, but the legs live on for the sake of history and for my early interest in color tv. Still going 50 years later.

Grinning too,

Dave A[/QUOTE]

That's OK- I've tried the Larcenous/Wheedle 'n' Cajole method on several folks here, trying to wrest treasures away from 'em...Never has worked...They always see right thru me...Guess I'd starve if I ever became a Sneak Thief/Artiste De Conne' for real...Your story sounds better than the one I was gonna lay on him...NOBODY'S stupid enuff to believe a TV wouldn't work unless you had the Legs screwed in...Well, I take that back...I know some folks who ARE that stupid...Unfortunately, none of 'em have 1955 RCA color sets...

A very nice find! A tough TV to start with, maybe, but just look at it like a really high-end radio. That fuse doesn't worry me too much-often they would leave the old one in place and clip the new one on top, to save time. That's assuming the new fuse is the correct rating.

Here's a link, courtesy Ed Reitan's site, to a catalog picture of the "Anderson".

http://www.novia.net/~ereitan/Galler...nderson300.gif

Notice the legs are not very long. These brass tipped legs are available in most Home Depot type stores and can be stained any finish. There is some ventilation through the bottom of the cabinet so you might want to install legs before warming the set up.

Good luck with the restoration.
-Steve D.

Home Deopt? Seriously? I never would have guessed! I will definitely check them out this weekend as well! Thanks for the tip!

UPDATE:

I was finally able to power up the chassis tonight, but so far the results were not good. The previously jumped fuses were not blown and of the correct amperage, so I thought I was in the clear. I checked all of the tubes (except the picture tube) and found 9 of them were bad, many of which had shorts. After replacing all of those I replaced the two 3-section electrolytic cans and powered the unit up on the variac.

I had read on various other posts that many of you do initial power ups without the high voltage section. To me this meant disconnecting the tube and removing the 6BK4 and 3A3 tubes from the high voltage cage.

Current draw was looking good up to 90 volts where I stopped for a second - only to watch the high voltage fuse pop with a nice blue spark. I assumed the high voltage section was isolated because I left the tubes out but obviously I was wrong. Any tips? Do I need to perform a short check around the flyback or was my leaving those tubes out a bad idea? Maybe I should have yanked the 1V2 and 6BK4 as well?

Anyways this is an early indication that something is wrong. Any assistance will be greatly appreciated as this is the most complicated radio I've ever seen!

---

Well if the cap for the 6BK4 was laying against the high voltage cage could that have caused a spark? There was no audible evidence of one.

I replaced a few suspect caps around the 3/4 amp fuse (BTW Radio Shack is the only place that stocks these anymore) and powered the set back up with the 3A3 and 6BK4 back in circuit, 6DQ5 and 6AU4 removed. One strange pop but no blown fuse up to 120V. I also got a strange knocking sound from around the high voltage cage - not the sound of a spark but more like the sound of an oscillator at around 5 Hz.

I put the set together and powered everything up on the variac. I reached 110V where I began to hear untuned station static from the speakers, and the high voltage scanning noise came up shortly thereafter. Within 10 seconds of that happening I began to hear a rush of static around the set so I powered it down. It sounded just like a sweater fresh out of the dryer if you know what I mean. Not thinking this is normal I powered the set back down but so far I can't find any problems. The flyback looks like new compared to some sets I've seen - so i don't think that is the culprit. Also, I never saw any static or picture.

Any ideas?

Well okay apparently just not being a scaredy cat helps.

I powered it up again assuming the static was normal and after adjusting the tuner I did get audio and some raster:

http://people.msoe.edu/~tillichn/ctc/IMG_3001.JPG

Any idea where to proceed from here?

Also, thanks Steve for pointing me towards the legs - Home Depot doesn't carry them and Lowe's was out of stock, but I found them at ACE Hardware for less than four bucks apiece. I think they're a little narrower than the originals and the brass caps are definitely shorter but they're close enough for me!

That HV static you're hearing is pretty normal on a lot of these old sets. You'll get what you described - static/audio on the speakers, scanning wine, and then a whoosh of static zaps for a second or two, then a picture. It just takes a while for all the tubes to heat up and start working. The static zaps should sound like you've just wiped your hand in front of a running tv set.

If you're getting more than just a quick woosh of static, check to be sure that the anode cap on the tube is clean, and the suction cup is stuck on decently. A dirty, dusty tube can cause some of this. A hissing, frying sound is quite possible here too. Double check that there isn't any crud in the connection to the top caps of the HV rectifier, HV regulator and horizontal output tubes.

If you run the set in a darkened room, you can see where the zaps are coming from.

You're making good progress!

-Ian

So close, so close...You'll be enjoying Glorious Lollipop Color in no time !! (grin)

Ah, I see you beat me to it. Looks good. You're making great progress. HV is the first major obstacle.

It looks like you have a full raster, that's a great sign. It's hard to tell, but it looks like your horizontal isn't locking. By twiddleing the vertical hold, you should be able to get the mess to roll top to bottom. But, I don't see a locked horizontal. Are you feeding in a signal - i.e. antenna? You should be able to get a clear snow, with no black lines through it. The picture looks a bit purple - could be a weak green gun, or could be a lot of other things. Don't worry about that right now. Concentrate on getting a clear, stable raster. The color circuits can come later.

What sections have you recapped so far?

-Ian

The set is being fed from an antenna - just a pair of rabbit ears. Yes the screen is very blue although I see a red line thats maybe collapsed at the bottom of the screen.

I haven't fully "recapped" any sections yet. The thought of depleting my entire radio capacitor selection by replacing the 135 or so capacitors I counted on the schematic is frightening. So far I've replaced the two can capacitors, C122 which is across the primary of the vertical output transformer, C604 in the horiz. osc. circuit across the sine wave coil, and C610 on the cathode of the 6CG7.

This brings up a few questions:

1) What is the chance that any of the disc capacitors are still good in comparison to the failure rates of the paper capacitors? Also can these be replaced by the same 630V metalized poly film caps that I use for the paper caps?

2) Why doesn't the service manual have a parts list? This would be unheard of for larger tube count radio schematics.

3) Is there any way I can adapt my Eico 635 tube tester to check the guns on this color tube? It has the 8 and 12 pin 110 degree sockets but no 14 pin socket. I would hate to get any further with this set only to find that I do have a bad tube.

Thanks!

Partial Success!!!

Well after realizing that I hooked the VHF antenna to the UHF connector and realizing that the blue connectors weren't even hooked up to the VHF tuner (duh) I decided that I didn't really give the set much of a chance! Here's some pictures in order of my adjusting them - thanks for the tip on playing with the vertical hold - its been years since I've used a tv older than I am.

http://people.msoe.edu/~tillichn/ctc/IMG_3002.JPG


http://people.msoe.edu/~tillichn/ctc/IMG_3003.JPG


http://people.msoe.edu/~tillichn/ctc/IMG_3004.JPG


http://people.msoe.edu/~tillichn/ctc/IMG_3005.JPG

The following one says Menards, 5%. You can really see how badly the red is skewed here:

http://people.msoe.edu/~tillichn/ctc/IMG_3007.JPG

The audio comes in loud and clear and sounds great, so I know I should expect a much better picture on this station.

http://people.msoe.edu/~tillichn/ctc/IMG_3008.JPG


Does anyone have any better suggestions for me now? The green is still nonexistent except in green streaks here and there when the channel starts to roll.

Check the "drive" controls on chasis, check voltage going to green screen, looks like an open resistor.
You need to converge the picture. The blue magnet should be on top, red on the right. Slide the pole magnets up and down till the colors are on top of each other.

can you adjust the fine tuning to improve the picture any? Perhaps you're missing video signal?

I would totally ignore the disc caps. It is highly unlikely that any are bad. Down the road if there is a problem you can look at them.

This does look good! I know it is scary when you first power a monster like this up. This is the part when I would be doing some twiddling of various adjustments to see what improvements could be made. The AGC should be tweaked, for one. The convergence is way out but that isn't unusual.

I'm not familiar with your tester, so I can't say if it can test this tube. I would think any of them from the mid-50s on should be able to, but they might require an adapter that could be hard to find. At this stage the set is working enough that you can get a good idea of how well the crt will perform just by doing the setup, grayscale, etc.

Well after replacing all 52 of the paper capacitors except the high voltage ones (1600 & 2000V) on the top of the chassis, I powered up the set again.

I now have much improved results:

http://people.msoe.edu/~tillichn/ctc/IMG_3028.JPG

http://people.msoe.edu/~tillichn/ctc/IMG_3033.JPG

http://people.msoe.edu/~tillichn/ctc/IMG_3038.JPG

http://people.msoe.edu/~tillichn/ctc/IMG_3041.JPG

I am surprised that the VHF section (1st 2 pics) has a much much clearer picture than the UHF section (2nd 2 pics). I am wondering if I have bad resistors somewhere in the tuner, or if my 6EA8 substitutes for 6U8 tubes over most of the chassis are causing problems. Unfortunately in all the tubes I had only one 6U8 was not short.

The green is definitely alive, but the picture is still collapsed on the bottom of the set. I also need to seriously work on the color convergence of the set - but I don't have any instructions for my Philco model 7100 color bar and dot generator, and so far no way of hooking it up to the TV has produced any results. Has anyone used a similar apparatus that knows generally what the procedure is?

I suppose ditching the rabbit ears and borrowing someone's VCR might help troubleshoot this set as well.

Slowly, but surely!

looking good! its all downhill from here. do some basic set-up adjustments;purity,center convergance,etc and that should get it going. vertical could be resistor between centering and height controls. havent seen rca roundie that didn t need that replaced.keep posting pics!

Wow! What a great thread! I am throughly enjoying this. Well thought out verbage from everyone and the photos just increase the thrill of it all! I was hooked from post #1 but when you spoke of the "sweater in the dryer" noise the goosebumps ran up my back because I knew you had gotten over a big hurdle by getting HV. A CTC7 that lives again... What a concept. You've got quite a prize there. Wish I could be of help but I'll sit back and cheer you on,
:lurk:
Brian