Photo finish: my solution!
 

So it's finally time to deal with the shabby cabinet on the CTC-7 I acquired from Seattle a while ago, which has the typical cracked/crazed faux wood photo finish. There was pretty much no hope of touching it up with pencils or anything like that, so it's time for something a little more intensive...


I hit it with a heat gun first to basically burn off the old plastic, then scraped it off with an ordinary paint scraper.

http://videokarma.org/attachment.php...1&d=1312661286
http://videokarma.org/attachment.php...2&d=1312661286
http://videokarma.org/attachment.php...3&d=1312661286
http://videokarma.org/attachment.php...4&d=1312661286
http://videokarma.org/attachment.php...5&d=1312661286

Next, I went over it with 220 grit on the random orbital sander to remove what was left. Result? Bare wood, but it will never be totally clear of the old residue. Hence a trip to Menards, for 3 rolls of very nice cherry veneer. Once all the old stuff has been stripped off I will apply the veneer, stain, then clear poly till it looks like glass. All the brass will be hand polished and reinstalled, the end result I hope will be a stunning cabinet that will dazzle anyone who sees it.

http://videokarma.org/attachment.php...6&d=1312661471
http://videokarma.org/attachment.php...7&d=1312661471

The top alone took me just over an hour to do, I suppose it will take me maybe another 4-6 hours to be completely done with the whole thing. This really needs to be done outside, since the smoke from burning the plastic off is pretty acrid and doesn't smell too good. Who knows what it's really made of after all, I wouldn't be the least bit surprized if it were toxic. :sigh:

I am glad that you have attempted this project and are sharing it with us. I think that my CTC-9C would benefit from a real mahogany veneer instead of the photofinish?

WoW! Nick, Once again you have shown that you are not affraid to tread where others have been hesitant.

I don't know if you have ever done veneer before. There are 2 methods that I know of for adhering the veneer.

Method one uses several coats of PVA glue on both surfaces and allowed to fully dry. Then you place the two surfaces together and iron the veneer with a household iron to melt the PVA glue and stick the veneer to the cabinet. I tried this method and it works pretty well. I suggest experimenting before you try it full on with your subject cabinet. The nice thing about this method is that you can position your piece of veneer precisely prior to hitting it with the iron and get a perfect fit with no mistakes.

Method two is the contact cement method we are all familiar with. Coat both surfaces with contact cement, wait till dry to the touch and then sitck the veneer down. This method does not allow for repositioning so where the pieces come together is what you are stuck with. IN most cases, you will be trimming off the excess anyhow so it won't matter.

I think either bonding method will work for what you are going to do.

This fall I will be visiting John Folsom and we will be doing Oak veneer on his Admiral Ambasador blonde set that is in worse shape than your CTC7 was. Glad to see there is a nice method of pealing off the crappy photo finish.

Do you hve any opinions on how you think the photo finishes were applied and what they were made from? I have always been curious about the process of photo finish, but have never been able to find any information on how this process was accomplished. I often wonder if it was an early form, or an offshoot of the Formica laminate process which is actually printed on paper and then compressed into a melamine sandwich.

Method 2 is the one I will use, since this paper-backed veneer has instructions to that effect. I have a pint can of cement, hopefully it will be enough. Raw veneer can use either method, and there is also a third type with adhesive already on it- you simply pull off the backing paper and stick it down. Doesn't sound very permanent though, more like something you would do if you were covering a desk on the cheap.


I was thinking the same thing, Bob. It's either bonded plastic/formica, or they literally applied the liquid plastic directly on to the wood in layers depending on the image they were using a la early bubble jet printing process. Under the fake wood image, it's more or less this reddish colored crud that's left over. That's the stuff I had to sand down. Perhaps that was the color of bonding agent they were using, or just the base upon which they applied the faux wood design? You know, something like a base layer of mahogany color with black for the simulated wood grain.

A second thought: perhaps the reddish stuff was photo sensitive, and they simply exposed it to a negative which had the wood pattern on it after it was applied to the cabinet? It smells nasty enough to be nearly anything...

I suspect that different types were used over time. The earliest radio cabinet photo finishes look like paper to me. Scratch the surface and you expose white paper underneath. On those, it's not so much the top layer as the underlying glue that's beastly to get off.

Later types like what's on my 1958 Miss America look much more plasticky to my eye. Could be anything, as miniman82 says. There are many kinds of plastic!

Phil Nelson

Interesting post, I have the same set (The Anderson aka Mr Anderson) in the same ratty condition and was planning to do basically the same thing, however I was planning on veneering right over the existing whatever it is, I like your method of stripping it down to bare wood better though.

I thought the plastic veneer was Formica or a relative of it, Melamine perhaps?
I don't know if Melamine and Formica are related but they seem similar in some ways.

Would it be easier to just sand it off with some 80 grit or would that take even longer? I certainly wouldn't breath the dust if I tried it. :no:

The top and front of the set has a much thicker coating than the sides do, so the heat gun method works a lot better there. Burn it, then scrape it off. The sides are a little different because the coating is so thin, it doesn't bubble up as much. Also much easier to burn the wood underneath if you hold the heat in one spot for too long. It's better on the sides to use a wide razor- chase the gun with the razor to warm the stuff up, then the blade will scrape it off easily. It's actually a lot like paint removal on the sides, where the top is like burning off a layer of something.

If you wanted, the sides would probably sand off pretty easily but the top and front are too thick. It would take forever to get through it all. I also noticed that the top is 'real wood' underneath, where the sides look like this sort of fiber board. Easy to go overboard with sanding there, so watch what you do.

I should be completely done removing all the photo finish later today, then I'll post pics of what it all looks like.

What's the downside to doing that? Seems simpler than removing the old stuff, if that's stuck on so hard it has to be torched off. You could give it a light sanding to make sure the new veneer adheres.

Phil Nelson

Oops! Intended to correct a typo and double posted.

If they had used that method, the wood would have absorbed both the developer and fixer and washing them out would have been next to impossible. The finish would have quickly turned an ugly yellowish brown from the remaining chemicals and destroyed the image.

Most fake grain during the 30's to 80's were printed. If you look very closely at it, you will see the half-tone grid used in the printing process.

An alternate process was simply applying a lighter base coat and sliding a rotating roughlty groved roller coated with a darker color to fake the grain. This method looks too crude for most TV's, but for large wall panels, it works.

Jas.

Phill,

The only downside that I see is if you have large areas on the top where the old finish has pealed off, you will have an uneven surface. Then then after you apply veneer you may see some variations in the flatness of the surface. But that can be taken care of by applying bondo to even out the old surface before you apply the veneer.

You would also want to make sure that whatever old finish that is left on the set is well adhered so that you have a good solid surface to glue the new veneer to. Otherwise I guess you could go right over the old surface.

I think the material you’re removing is a printed vinyl product- still in extensive use on low-end furniture today. Thermofilm is a common name associated with kitchen cabinet doors. It’s a heat press application. It will shrink and conform to irregular surfaces. Remember all the cheap wood grain paneling back in the 70's-80's? -Same kind of stuff. Some of it even has wood grain molded in. I think you can still get vinyl woodgrain covered moldings at home centers.

Almost done...


http://videokarma.org/attachment.php...2&d=1312761671


And now for the modification this set has always needed:


http://videokarma.org/attachment.php...3&d=1312761671


That's right, she's going topless! :D

Seriously though, it's a PITA trying to converge sets like this with a mirror. I've always felt that the older sets with removable top were a lot easier to work on (especially ones with vertical chassis), and all it took was removing a few screws and a couple hammer blows to get it off. Now I have to add some strategically placed bracing, make sure it will clear the chassis, and put it back together. I have a length of 1" square oak already ripped to size, but I won't be able to get back to this till 2 weeks from now.

I have a 59 Zenith blond set that has what seems to be printed paper covered in toner lacker. The lacker has degraded in a couple of spotts and when it does it becomes sticky and adheres the paper to whatever is in contact with such that anyting touching a badspot will take the entire photo finish off!

Once I get to learning cabbinet work this will be some where on my list.

Tom C.

Update, as promised.


Got the new brace installed so the cab won't be all weak, and applied the first of many pieces of veneer. Top looks pretty good now, but holy smokes does that contact cement STINK! :yuck:

Tomorrow, I'll be finishing up the rest of the sanding. Then if I have any time left, I may apply some veneer to the side of the cabinet. Looks good so far, no?

http://videokarma.org/attachment.php...3&d=1313900801
http://videokarma.org/attachment.php...4&d=1313900801
http://videokarma.org/attachment.php...5&d=1313900801

Looking good Nick! Are you going to leave the plywood core unfinished or are you going to edge band those? Or are the cores concealed?

I agree with you on the contact cement fumes. Watch out for those vapors, they are extremely flamable, unless you are using the non-flamable type. Back in the 70's I was recovering the kitchen cabinets in my home and the pilot light in the stove caused the vapors to flash over to the piece I was working on and I had a very nasty fire for about 30 seconds till I grabed the fire extinguisher and put it out. The house was filled with soot and smoke. I spent the next several days cleaning up the mess and washing walls.

After that experience I have since used the non-flamable version. It's a lot more costly, but once you experience fire you become a lot more cautious.

I think this is the non-flammable version, it was pricey stuff. I think I'll leave the edges of the wood unfinished, I don't think it'll look too bad. Then again, I already have plenty of little strips left over that would be perfect for that task...

If it stinks, it's likely the good stuff and it is expensive regardless! It's like paint strippers too; if it's "environmentally friendly", or "green" it's guaranteed to suck. If it burns your hands, has all sorts of precautions on the container, it's the good stuff and will work well! Contact cement is nasty to use in a house, better left to outdoor activities...

As for the end grain; tone it a few shades darker than the cabinet finish unless your leaving it natural and then you might want to consider some veneer strips to cover the end grain. Cabinet makers rarely finished the ends or routed edge parts of a cabinets, rather they toned the ends a little darker to cover the fact it's low grade hard wood cores -- common on radio cabinets anyhow... The cabinet looks great!

I hear that! Back when I first enlisted in the Navy, we had a solvent tank full of this nasty ass stuff that would cause you to just about hallucinate if you had it on your skin for long enough. Bad shite, but you couldn't beat it for busting grease off aircraft parts. A year or so later, they switched to some enviro-friendly hippy-crap stuff, and it didn't work worth a piss!

There are things in life worth paying good money for, here's my short list:

Toilet paper: quilted please, the comfort of my buttonhole is of utmost importance!

Chemicals/paint: if you get the cheap crap, you'll work twice as hard to finish the job.

Electronic parts: because if it fails, it seldom goes alone or quietly... This mostly applies to capacitors, but everything can fall into the category.

Engine parts: particularly internals, since no one likes to see a cheap Chinese connecting rod peering back at you through the block. I work with air cooled VW's, and skimping on internal parts is a pet peeve. Sometimes you don't have a choice, but if you have the cash buy American every time!

More progress finally.

Got the sides all sanded, they are ready to accept the next round of veneer. Got the left side done, just needs to be trimmed.

http://videokarma.org/attachment.php...0&d=1315328012


There we go, much better! Here's with the top.

http://videokarma.org/attachment.php...1&d=1315328012


Now off to do the right side, possibly get going on the front if it. Front will have to be done in sections, because it's so wide. Hopefully I can grain match well enough that it looks like a continuous piece. After that, it's on to grain sealing and staining.

Right side veneer has been applied, still need to cut out the holes for the controls. Tomorrow I will tackle the front, which will need to be done in 2 sections because of the width. It's a lot wider than the sides. I will also paint the entries to the picture tube and speaker in a black gloss paint, and finish the edges on the top of the cabinet. Then will come grain filler and dark mahogany stain. I plan to use the same high gloss poly as the other cabinets, the result should be very nice.

http://videokarma.org/attachment.php...4&d=1315347861

Entryways into the pix tube and speaker are now painted with 2 coats of high gloss black oil based paint. Now off to the hardware store to buy grain filler, then the fabric store to find a suitable replacement for the old grille cloth. Also, I have settled on painting a gold stripe around the cabinet where there's currently a beveled edge. I was going to try and apply veneer there, but it's far too small an area and I anticipated great difficulty. It would have involved 6 strips of 1/8" veneer, applied in 2 sections. I think the gold paint will look just as good, RCA often painted gold stripes onto their cabinets as accents.

http://videokarma.org/attachment.php...9&d=1315416712

Covered the speaker mounting board with the thinnest foam I could find, then glued it in place. It will help keep the cloth nice and taught, as opposed to the old way which simply draped it over the board to get saggy. It's much the same thing as auto manufactures use on headliners, except that here the board will help keep the fabric tight.

http://videokarma.org/attachment.php...9&d=1315460146



First 2 pics I took looked exactly the same to the camera though they were completely different fabric, so I'll only post one pic to describe them both.

First a nylon or somesuch cloth, very thin but also very modern looking. I think it will clash with the fact that this TV is from the 50's, since it's something you are used to seeing on cheap 90's throwaway electronics. Soundesign or Spark-O-Matic ring any bells? Not very classy at all, definitely 3rd on my list. :thumbsdn:

Second one was something called 'Duck', but it just looks like plain black canvas to me. This was a heavier fabric, and didn't seem to fit in either. It didn't look bad at all, just that I think it's woven too tightly for this application. My second choice.

http://videokarma.org/attachment.php...0&d=1315460146


Finally, what I thought would be my last choice actually ended up being my first- plain black cheap ass burlap. Now this is something I had not considered at all, but got it anyway for comparison purposes. I actually ended up liking it the most, because the fibers are farther apart just like the original was. It's neutral, doesn't draw attention and it's something I could actually see RCA using on their sets back in the day. Maybe I could find a big gold 'Deluxe' script for the middle, what do you guys think? :scratch2:

http://videokarma.org/attachment.php...2&d=1315460146

I think the third one is best too.

I'd be tempted to keep the finish a light wallnut or blond color to contrast the speaker fabric if I was in your shoes. That would make for a nice 50's modern look IMHO.


Tom C.

Nah, I got 2 cans of red mahogany stain burning a hole in my pocket. Plus, I already did the legs. lol

Finally, all the veneer has been applied and my poor throbbing back can get a rest. Cut out all the holes for the controls on the side, so it's looking like tomorrow will finally be the day I apply the stain. Then a day of drying, sanding sealer and finally clear poly. :thmbsp:

http://videokarma.org/attachment.php...6&d=1315548417

http://videokarma.org/attachment.php...7&d=1315548417

I was very proud of myself today, I was able to actually get these curved parts done perfectly. I had been dreading it, but learned that it's best to cut close to the edge then finish up by sanding the rest down flush.


http://videokarma.org/attachment.php...8&d=1315548417

Lookin good! My CTC-5 has A photo finish. It looks good enough for now.

Cabinet is looking great. Was the original cloth to far gone to re-use? There are some nice reproduction guitar amp patterns that would look pretty sharp with the dark mahogany finish. I'm thinking pattern FA 1045, FA 1050,
or DF6002 would go very well with your sets gold trim. I'm afraid black could end up looking like a big dark hole. Of course it's all a matter of personal taste.

http://www.vibroworld.com/parts/tech10.html

Hmm, that FA1045 looks yummy. Yes, the original stuff was toast and it looked horrid anyway. I'd rather have 70's shag carpet than the stuff this thing originally had.

I agree, that would really look sharp with your sets gold trim.

I don't have any of that one, but here's what the Oxblood/Gold looks like against my CTC-11's mahogany cabinet. FYI this stuff is a very open plastic thread weave, so you need to paint the speaker board a matching color.

Well the fabric is an easy thing to change, so if I need to I can swap it out in like 10 minutes.


Here's what the legs look like now. Simply chuck the leg up in a drill by the threads, then apply Testor's gold flake model paint with a small brush while rotating it around. The back 2 did not get any gold trim, only the front. My CTC-4 is the same way, so I figured why go to the trouble when you can't see them anyway? Also had to buy new nylon feet, the old ones were toast.

http://videokarma.org/attachment.php...4&d=1315592512

Well that was abortive, the gold paint slid right off as soon as I put poly on it. lol

Time for plan 2, just need some time to think what plan 2 is.

2 Sides have now been stained, just the top and left side to go.

http://videokarma.org/attachment.php...6&d=1315614867

Two ideas. If you can get the brass pieces off you could send them to a metal polisher (if you do that lacker them after wards to prevent future tarnishing), or have them plated.

Green would also be a nice cabinet complementing color for the grill cloth(I was waiting to see the stain color to comment on that).

Tom C.

Nick,

You need a lacquer paint for the gold. Poly is enamel and it will not strip lacquer. However you cant go the other way. If you put gold enamel (like Testors) first then apply enamel or lacquer, you will take the gold off. Use lacquer first then enamel can go over the lacquer.

Most of those brass ferrules originally had a brushed finish on them. Why not stick them on a leg, chuck it in a drill, and steel wool or emery cloth the finish back? Then you can clear coat with poly. :scratch2:

Stain looking good.

Because they were all beyond repair, cracked and corroded to hell. I'll look for a different paint, since that was working great till it sloughed off. lol

Oh, ok. Guess I need to pay closer attention.