What set will last the longest?
 

Just a question i was wondering about. If you had to choose a 40s or 50s b&w set to try and keep working as a daily viewer, for the rest of your life, what brand and model would it be?

Ive read alot and some say admirals were simple and rather sturdy, where others seem to say zenith.

What set would you personally choose as the most durable?

Well, I am fond of the early 50s (up to about 55 or so) split chassis Philco TVs. Several reasons:

1) Very simple power supply (no B+ power transformer to worry about, although there is a transformer for the 6.3V tube heaters).
2) Does not use series string tubes.
3) Decent, fairly conservative design.
4) Easy to work on (each chassis is fairly compact and lightweight) CRT stays in the cabinet.
5) One can keep a spare chassis (or more) at hand, easy to swap out.
6) Usually pretty cheap to acquire.

jr

I like Zenith b/w sets from the late 50s through the early 70s (the years they used the horizontally mounted steel chassis, I think 59-74?) I've been using many of those as daily watchers for years, and find them to give me the least trouble of any sets I've owned. I currently have 9 of them. My '66 19" Zenith remote-controlled steel cabinet set is currently my main bedroom set.

I even had one (a 1961 19" in the metal cabinet) that I got after it had been sitting on the floor of a barn for decades, it was full of dirt and cement dust. It powered right up and worked fine, as found, with original parts. I used it, having done no repairs to it except blowing the dirt out, for months on a regular basis, until the crt got too weak. Since then, I've replaced the crt and recapped it.

I'm with you on that, but those stupid things have exactly 1 bazillion capacitors in them so getting it to work in the first place can sometimes cost a little. Once I got mine working, it had the best pictuure of any B&W set I've ever seen. Tack sharp, not a hint of noise in that thing.

! Dang! Even before reading the second post, I was going to suggest the split-chassis Philco. Even with their original seleniums they were extremely durable and long-lived.

I'll go for the 12 inch motorolas with the flyback underneath. I use one every day for news and a movie once and a while. Once I got mine stable it has been a true workhorse.
My Admiral 12X12 has a great picture but I'm still working on the non-linear (horizontal) picture.
I also like the Philco split chassis but I vote for the early one with the power transformer and 5U4's.

RCA sets using the KCS28 thru KCS40 chassis. These sets are built like a tank and will last forever. I have used a KCS28 chassis RCA as a daily viewer since 1969. It has its original picture tube and most of its originl receiving tubes. You do have to replace the 5U4 and 6BG6 every few years and that is about all.

Also, it has all of its original electrolytics and they remain fine.

Terry

Those were the ones we hated the most. There was no such thing as a quickie-fix on those dogs. The little later Philco with the full power transformer and 5U4 was a lot better set. 1955-56 model years.
I always prefered any set that had keyed AGC, four stages of IF and, of course, a power transformer. All major manufacturers made a set of this type, even in a table model.

Hmm.. different strokes, different folks i guess. My experience with them was the diametric opposite, even though Philco was not one of our house brands (thus i had no invested reason to tout them). What sort of problems did you have with them?

First choice? Early Admirals. Secong? Early RCA, around '47-'50. No later than KCS 42.
Third choice? Spartan.
Bill Cahill

Dang! I forgot that the early split chassis sets had a power transformer (my '51 roundie does)... good solid set! My '53s do not... don't know about '52s.

jr

Biggest aggravation with the split chassis Philco was flag waving at the top of the picture. I can't remember everything that needed to be replaced but recaping the sync and horizontal even back then (1960's) was usually in order.
I remember they had good pictures when right.
Most disliked at the shop back then were the "briefcase" Philco TVs. I don't see the Predicta listed here:no:

My 52' split chassis works great with only the doubler caps and diodes replaced (no B+ transformer), and all the papers. The darn thing actually wanted to work with all the original caps, but the deflection circuits were too unstable for a recogniseable picture.

That was the thing that irked me the most on those sets. I couldn't believe that a set newer than 10 years old, needed a total recap. Some of the post 1955 RCA's needed a complete recap early in their lives.

A couple of you guys mentioned RCA no later than KCS 40-42. So what issues started cropping up after that? I have a KCS45 here that I was hoping to restore. Will this set be a disappointment? I see it has DC restoration.

For one, that set uses selenium rectifiers. That chassis was their budget set.
Yes, RCA sets started having DC restoration, but, they just got cheap on construction.
Not saying it's not worth fixing. It probably is. But, the later, the more trouble they are.
Bill Cahill

Well it can't be any worse than my KCS 103, relatively speaking. :)

The RCAs from the kcs28 started using DC ideo amplifier coupling. This means that the DC component remains and a separate DC restorer is not necessary. The result is a better amplifier frequency-phase response and the pictures on these sets are amazing.

From the kcs45, the design went back to the DC restorer. The design was cheapened: the peak sync AGC amplifier disappeared and the AGC became cheap with simply a rectifier. Less sync amplification and the sync take off was after the contrast control to make up for the lost gain. Lastly, a high impedance horizontal deflection coil to match the horizontal output tube was introduced which was bad news.

From the kcs66 was an improved design. I like especially the return to DC video coupling and the introduction of keyed AGC to reduce airplane flutter.

From the kcs66, RCA had a wider range of sets from the very good to the pretty bad. The kcs 28 to the kcs 42 were all good.

Terry

[QUOTE=Adam;3014076]I like Zenith b/w sets from the late 50s through the early 70s (the years they used the horizontally mounted steel chassis, I think 59-74?) I've been using many of those as daily watchers for years, and find them to give me the least trouble of any sets I've owned. I currently have 9 of them. My '66 19" Zenith remote-controlled steel cabinet set is currently my main bedroom set.
I think this is the truest statement of any, included on this thread. These sets were state of the art at the time. Many had frame grid IF tubes and the almost indestructable gold video-guard tuner.

The early Zeniths were too overbuilt, leading to lots of headaches. By the mid-50s or so they really had their act together, though. I have noticed a lot of very weak crts in pre-60s Zeniths.

I've had good luck with the split-chassis, which is basically like recapping 2 radios. Their later one-piece chassis seemed straightforward, as did most of the mid-50s RCA sets I've looked at.

<chuckle> I have four of them, three still power up and function to some degree. They all need cosmetic help.:D

Seems like plain old parts count should have some bearing on reliability. My 1946 RCA 630TS has 30 tubes. My 1958 Philco Miss America has 18 tubes. I don't know offhand which is better engineered, but the 630TS has more potential failure points.

Phil Nelson

The 52 models had the selenium rectifier, heater transformer arrangement also. Some of the models had a 6BQ6 for a vertical output, which I found strange. All their models from 1952-54 had that power supply arrangement.

Just like GM, Chrysler and Ford had some really good cars but also had some really bad ones. TV manufactures had really good reliable sets and some not so good. And yes I doubt you will see a Predicta listed as a reliable set!

Personally any vintage set with phenolic circuit boards should not be considered reliable for the long haul.

What about the higher priced sets such as DuMont and Setchell-Carlson? Seems like those were built like tanks and meant to last forever! Some S-C consoles had the chassis above the crt and the top of the cabinet lifted like a car hood for servicing. I'd love to have one of those!

Im rather amazed by the simplicity of my 56 packard bell 24s, 18 tubes and only 26 caps. Its had three "oldschool replacement caps", but was working when i got it, it shows they must have been rather reliable. Its half as complex as my 1950 motorola.

Sorry everyone, im not up to your levels yet where i can talk knowledabley about them. Im still at the "stare at the schematics and replace one part at a time and pray for it to work" stage.

All of us wisely still use schematics, and, one part at a time. Nothing wrong in that.
As far as reliability, I'd like to find a good 1956 21" console deluxe RCA in good repairable shape. I really want one.
Bill Cahill

I have a couple of the early 1950s Hoffman Mark V sets. These seem to be very good sets with power transformers, 4 IFs, etc. The rectifier is a 5U4.

The also have true limiters on the sound systems, greatly reducing the annoying buzz (from the AM of the video leaking into the sound stages). That buzz is almost impossible to get out of some the later 1960s sets with the set running off of the strong signal from converter boxes, dvd players, etc.

As to which 1950s/1960s sets would possibly die the soonest, I have an answer to that also. I got some early 60s small GE portables from a TV shop that I cleaned out. GE mounted all the tubes on printed circuit boards(even the combination horizontal output/damper). A couple of these had not been used much, so I got them going again. The others had totally charcoaled boards.

Knock on wood, my split chassis Philco and my 54 Admiral are what I watch the most. They have been very reliable since I finally got them where I want them.

It always seemed if it could be built cheaper, GE would find a way. The later hybrid portables had a fiberglas based PC board that seemed fairly rugged.

Best early (late 40's) set? Admiral. I have two 24A12s that I restored at the same time. They both are flawless performers. All I have to do is turn them on. Plus, they were an easy restoration. Bakelite is easier to restore than wood.

...and, they keep on running. I haven't had to go back into either of them. Good, solid picture and sound. Can't say that for the rest of my late '40s sets.

Second best? Philco 48-Series sets. I have a 48-1001, and even though I had to go back into it a second time (for a couple of dead 1/2 watt resistors in the first and second stage IF's, plus a 2 watter in the audio stage) it's been my best performing early B&W 10BP4 set. Great picture, sound is fair to good. But, it's a difficult restoration if you run into trouble. There are a gazillion caps in those sets.

Close Third? 1947-48 DuMont RA-103 series, and their clones (like Stromberg-Carlson). Easy sets to restore, good performers, well engineered. Easily the best sounding of all my early television sets. (Excuse me..."Televisor") Tuners are a little fidgety, no ALC, but they have FM as a bonus.

...but, I love all of them.:smoke: