Any interest in *new* 16AP4's?
 

I just found out that RACS may be able to build brand new 16AP4's, but need to see if there's any interest out there.

Here's the skinny:

RACS does radar tubes for the military, but these have a special phosphor on them. Since they are the same metal shell tube having the same dimensions as a 16AP4, I asked if they could put P4 phospor in them. The answer is yes, not only that they have brand new ones ready for building (about 6).


The electron gun would be straight (so no ion trap), and the tube would be aluminized. If you would be interested, reply here and state the amount you'd be willing to pay for such an item. RACS is closing soon and whatever isn't used will be recycled, so it only makes sense to make use of what we can before that time.

Is RACS the source of the radar display P-7 tubes for the Moscow airport? :scratch2:

http://www.videokarma.org/showthread.php?t=254459

jr

Could be, as long as they are 16" tubes.

I'd be interested in one if the cost was reasonable but I doubt if it will be with the shipping and all.

A 16GP4 is a 70 degree tube. I would be interested in a 16AP4 which is a 50 degree tube.

Do they have any shells? Otherwise I have a couple of duds.

Question: the HV (EHT) of the late 40's sets using a 16AP4 is only 10 to 12 kV. Will the aluminized screen be as bright? Perhaps brighter?

Thanks,

Terry

Aluminized tubes tend to be brighter. There is a difference in length as well, the AP is shorter by quite a bit.

I think you have that backwards, the 16AP4 is much longer than the 16GP4

22 inches vs 17 inches for the GP4

Oops, I had it backwards. This would be the longer tube. Title edited.

A little text editing will avoid further confusion.

I would be interested in what RACS would price an "new" 16GP4 at. Shipping costs are going to really up the cost.

Since I have a couple of KCS-47's, I would be open to try adapting a 16G instead of a 16A. Willing to try, what with all that tinkerin' that would be needed. I'd be interested, at a reasonable price...

Please post what you;d be willing to pay.

OK, now I am confused. I do know the 16AP4 is the longer CRT with 50-degree deflection and the 16GP4 is the shorter one. Which one is RACS able to build?

Regarding price, I have no idea how to answer that either, so I would go along with other comments here, "my interest depends on the cost". If they could make them at "X" cost, then I would like to know a price that is fair and profitable to the company, and that is for RACS to determine. If it is reasonable to collectors, we will want to make orders. If it is beyond the budgets of most, then there would be no sales anyway because the company would not want to operate at a loss obviously.

The last "new" CRT I bought was a 3KP4 that was made in 1981, by Richardson Electronics if I remember right.

I tried to edit the title and it did save, but now I see it will not change? I alerted the mods, maybe something will change later.

This is for a 16AP4. RACS want to know what the community is willing to pay, so they can make a decision. Bouncing the ball back in their court is only likely to drive the price up, and your likelyhood of actually getting one down. So start throwing prices out. If $250 is reasonable, say so. If it's too much, say it's too much. I need a ballpark figure.

I almost had Clinton Electronics rebuild a 16GP4 years back, for $350. That
would have included new phosphor & aluminized. "No charge" in event of failure. But then the new owners said "hell no" to metal tubes, plus the price
sky-rocketed on rebuilds.

I don't need one now, but it would be a great idea to get some built while possible... I know it was murder trying to find a good one, even 25 years ago. The few that I had rebuilt by Dunbar in Los Angeles, went to air shortly.

Charles

$200-250 with shipping is a reasonable spending limit for a unit that rarely comes out of storage. The 19AP4 rebuild is higher on my list...

Fillipe suggested a price of $250, you figure the shipping.

Nick,

If it was for a 16AP4 with aluminized P4 screen at $250, I would be interested.

Just to confirm the shells that RAC has are the 50 degree metal with neck is about 22" long?

Thanks,

Terry

That's right.

Well a 16AP4 is different, I don't have a current need for one of those.
I do need a 16GP4 but it's a $25 set so spending $300 or more for a CRT is out.

I have a NOS RCA 16AP4 installed in a set, it looks great, I would love to see what one with an Aluminized screen would look like.

Maybe they could bulk-ship a quantity of a dozen or so, and split 'em up when they get to America?

I'd like a 16AP4 too, but the set it'll go in was 5 bucks. I did pay $360 for a 21AXP22 to put in a Wingate I paid $22.50 for but I guess that's a bit different. Hey, can they rebuild 21AX's??? That might be a worthwhile shipment. :yes:

I almost did ship an AXP over, but as I suspected most of my time has been spent on learning the trade. I owe my time to RACS and Jerome first, since they funded the trip. After that, who knows? I hope to see some sights this weekend, maybe take some pictures of the countryside.

I am going to suggest that they build 6 tubes, and put them in a crate. Need 6 confirmed buyers though...

Hate to have to put out that kind of money if the tube went
to air. How about the 16EP4 - a 60 degree metal tube?

If it goes to air, you're SOL. But how is that any different than paying $250 for an NOS tube and having the same thing happen? These are the risks with our hobby.

I take it there's not enough interest, so I will tell Fillipe not to worry.

$250 is a reasonable price. I have other expenses now, though, so I would not be able to join a "bulk" purchase right now if it happened.

Do you know if RACS is able to rebuild a 21AXP22, and the cost to do so? I remember that Hawkeye was not able to consistently rebuild those in later years. For this CRT, I would be more likely to juggle expenses as possible to get it done. Thanks, and enjoy your visit to France!

To me, the definition of "reasonable cost" hinges on how confident you are that the ETF rebuilding project will get off the ground, and when. After RACS closes their doors, I guess there is nobody on Planet Earth able to rebuild vintage CRTs for the time being.

If I desperately needed this particular CRT, and I thought it would be years before ETF could rebuild one (or possibly never, for some unpredictable reason), then "reasonable" might be a bigger number. A bird in the hand, so to speak . . . .

Phil Nelson

It's going to be at least 8 years before anything is done at ETF, that's when I retire. You can send your AXP, I'm sure they would do it. Send them an email and ask.

8 years??!!

Yeah, one person's off-handed remark can be another (every other?) person's major revelation.

No one else is going to operate the equipment, unless you want to give it a whirl. I'm not gonna get out of the Navy just to build a few random tubes for an ever shrinking and cash strapped community.

Honey, I shrunk the community...

But, seriously, folks, if I can teach myself SMT rework at 53, I'm sure one of us could learn the CRT rebuild process.

So you're going to rebuild tubes now?

OK, I won't offer to help anymore. It's not like Jerome paid $4000 out of his own pocket to send me here or anything.

Seriously folks, if we want the rebuilding thing to happen you're all going to have to start participating instead of bitching about what stuff costs. Would you rather be stuck finding pulls for the rest of your days? Having dark sets, because the tubes are all used up? This hobby isn't getting any cheaper, and the longer we wait to do something the worse off we'll all be. Quite frankly, Jerome and I are both disappointed at the response to everything that's going on right now. There was a lot of enthusiastic talk at the past 2 conventions about what we were going to do, but now silence?

FFS!

Why this bickering?? Two rebuilders offer to help, and, everyone's up in arms.
I am personally waiting with excitement to see the project at the museum come about.
At the same time, temporary help on rebuilding on some tubes is also a good offer.
One helping the other to help the community...
Bill Cahill

I think the missed point here is that the vast majority of us have jobs, families and obligations that make it impossible to get as involved in this as we may like to. Most of us do not live in Ohio. That's just the way it is. The TV collecting community is indeed a small, small group; nevertheless, you're hard-pressed to find more dedicated, helpful and unselfish people in any other hobby. I do believe that one day the CRT operation at Hilliard will come to fruition, even if it does take ten years. In the meantime, no good is going to come out of bickering and snubbing those who can't afford to spend large sums on parts.

I have been following this thread as well as all the happenings at ETF. A few points.

First, at least there is an OPTION to rebuild or learn to rebuild CRT's, and yes rebuilds can be pricy such is life. Try the end that me and chuck Pharis along with a few others are at, we collect cameras as well, no one is EVER going to rebuild Image orthicons or Plumbicons, we have to find what little NOS there is or find used ones that are not fried.

Time is of the essence in collecting the knowledge/processes that are involved in rebuilding, once that is captured it WILL need to practiced and refined, that will take time.

I commend Nick/Jerome and all those already involved for what they have already done, the small collecting community has stepped up to save what could have easily went the way of the dodo.

The equipment involved in the process is large, heavy, and power/natural gas/hydrogen hungry, also dangerous to operate if you do NOT know what you are doing. Also the equipment that ETF has WILL need to be refurbished after being disassembled/moved/reassembled, i shudder to think of what could be in those ovens as they sit.

So my point is all of this is going to take a LOT of time/money/logistics but mostly cooperation between us all!

So please lets come so some consensus here, and just wait. As for the rebuilds using the radar tubes that RACS is offering, this is a good oppertunity those who might need that type of tube should seriously consider it.

Just my $0.02 for what its worth.

Matt

Alright, I guess I need to be clearer. First, I will commit to buy one 16A, at $250, hoping it won't run much over another $100 for shipping.

Second, I somehow missed the part where you were going to France at all, let alone learn the CRT rebuild process from an old master... I wish to thank Jerome and you as well, Nick, for doing this. And I don't want your visit to be spoiled by the lackluster response so far.

Third, I've never been to an ETF convention and probably won't go anytime soon, although I have wanted to go since before my collecting helped ruin my marriage. Maybe if I can spare a couple of unpaid days off and find cheap airfare I'll go next year. Ohio isn't just down the road for us out on the West Coast! I, like some other collectors I know avoid the local antique radio club because of petty bickering and rampant gouging that occurs at the two clubs I have belonged to out here. VK is much better, and I've met a lot of nice folks here, and gotten some really sweet deals!

So, count me in, and hopefully a few others will pipe up and you can get the deal rolling. And I really want my 19A done as well someday.

I just wanna say I wasn't being negative Nick, I was just a little surprised at 8 years. It's better than never. If I can come up with the funds, I want a 16AP4. I'll let you know what I can do in a reasonable time. The price seems pretty realistic and doable but I'm in a bad spot in life right now......

$250 seems very reasonable under the circumstances.

Phil Nelson