1954 Admiral C2226 project
 

Here begins my journey, and I sure hope it's not a short trip, i.e. a failure. I've acquired our old 1954 Admiral Model C2226 21" B&W cabinet that I grew up with. Unfortunately, ALL I have is the cabinet because somewhere along the line the TV was gutted - no chassis, tube or speaker. I've attached a few photos, 1. Me and my TV circa 1961, 2. Cabinet upon arrival after some TLC for the wood and front glass cleaning, 3. Cabinet after some further serious cleaning to remove bezel stains.

I can only guess that the brown stains around the bezel in the second photo were due to cigarette smoke as both my parents were heavy smokers. It was thick on the inside of the front glass as well prior to that photo being taken. I tried everything I could think of to get that crap off of there and NOTHING would touch it, and I mean nothing. Know what finally got it off? A simple paste made of baking soda and water. Who knew???

I'm hoping someone might have an idea where I might find some innards for this guy. SAMs doc for a model C2226 actually listed 19 1954 models and showed only one chassis photo. Those models listed a variety of chassis numbers, so I'm a bit confused. Can someone tell me why there are so many models listed and what the difference is in the chassis numbers? Six models showed the 22A3Z chassis number - C2225, C2226, C2227, F2216, F2217 and F2218. The remaining models either showed a different chassis number or other chassis numbers in addition to the 22A3Z. If someone could explain this to me then maybe I could put a want ad out on Craigs list for multiple models and broaden my search once I understand how to decipher what the SAMs data is trying to tell me.

I've already emailed Harry Poster at his TV prop site as he was recommended as someone who may have parts, but it's been 11 days and nothing has turned up as of yet.

So, here I sit, trying to get past first base and get a chassis that I can even begin work on:-) Any suggestions would be very much appreciated, and if anyone should run across one of the models that would work for a chassis and let me know I'd be forever in your debt! Thanks...

Some models with the same chassis may have used a different sized CRT which could complicate a complete guts swap between sets.
I'm not familiar with Admiral's numbering system, but can say that it was common practice among TV makers back then to put virtually the same chassis(even keeping the same chassis numbers in many cases) in a variety of different cabinets with different screen sizes and have a different model for each cabinet/screen size variant.

I looked at the Sams manual and it doesn't seem to show significant differences amongst the various chassis listed. All use a 21-inch picture tube. A few chassis use a different type of tube for the sync separator. A few other minor differences are noted in the parts list.

I would look for all of the listed model numbers, and if you're lucky enough to find any of them, worry about small differences later. As long as the chassis and picture tube physically fit the openings, and the chassis has the right knob shafts in the right places, you don't really care whether it uses a 6xyz or 6abc sync separator tube.

As Electronic M noted, it was common to use the same chassis in multiple cabinets. The manual for my RCA CTC-11 lists 43 (!) model numbers. They all used basically the same chassis, with two electronic options (UHF tuner, remote) and a zillion choices of cabinet and trim.

You may need to be patient when looking for a specific item like this. There are no Wal-Marts with hundreds of old TV chassis to choose from. It might be easier to find another complete Admiral with a junky cabinet and a restorable chassis.

Phil Nelson
Phil's Old Radios
http://antiqueradio.org/index.html

I read and answered your "newbie" post before I saw this thread and now see that you have made progress more than I suspected.

One thing you will often find in this hobby is conflicting information.

Rider gives your chassis as 22A3. I've found that usually:

Factory manuals are the best.
Rider manuals are the next best.
Sams have the most errors, but also have the most pictures.

Per the Rider index:
Model C2226 carried chassis 22A3
while
Model C2226Z carried chassis 22A3Z

The schematic index can be used to predict which other model might carry a usable chassis.

Probably any 21 inch 1954 Admiral chassis with these numbers could be used: 22A3, 22A3Z, 22A3AZ, 22B3, 22B3Z, 22B3AZ, 22C2 late, 22E2 late, 22F2 late, 22F2Z, 22M2 late, 22N2, 22P2 late, and 22R2 late. They are all the wired the same, but have minor revisions.

James

James, Phil, Tom - thank you all for your input answering my model/chassis questions. Now the search begins. I figured I'd post in the classifieds in this forum first and then on Craig's list once I figure it out. Any other suggestions as to places to query for models and chassis numbers?

Thanks again! You all have been just super:-)
Neil

The Early Television Foundation website has free classified ads. You could post an ad in the "TV Sets Wanted" section:

http://www.earlytelevision.org/classified_page.html

Phil Nelson

Take a look here, seller says it's a 58 model but eBay sellers are wrong now and then.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Admiral-Tele...item3f19060849

Hi Eric - thanks! I did see that one - my wife came in here all excited the other night and said she thought she found one... (Wow, I didn't know she was helping me look! What a sweetheart she is!) Unfortunately, the model was a FA2326Z N and the chassis was a 21B3Z. A Google search of FA2326 didn't turn up ANYTHING. No SAMs, no brochures, no nothing. So I have no way of knowing whether that one will work. The front trim looks similar to the C2226, but that's about all I have to go on. Thanks again for the suggestion.

Neil

Some collectors spend years pursuing a specific TV model, so you're in good company. I'll repeat my advice to post a free "wanted" ad in the ETF website. Who knows, another collector might run across what you need.

Did you know that you can search all of the craigslist sites at once? Go to http://www.google.com/ and search for this phrase, for example:

old admiral tv site:craigslist.org

Many of those sets will be far away, of course, but you never know.

Use a variety of search terms, since sellers don't always use obvious words or pick a good category. One of my best craigslist TV finds was listed in a dumb category like Household with a nondescript title like "Old Wooden Set."

Phil Nelson

as long as the front configuration of knobs on the chassis are in the correct placement, It will work in the C2226 cabinet

Will this model FA2326Z/21B3Z chassis work?
 

Well folks, that Admiral model FA2326Z with a 21B3Z chassis on Ebay sure looks the part, but again, I've not been able to find any information about this TV.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Admiral-Tele...06%26rk%3D1%26

The Ebay seller says it's a 1958 model, but wouldn't a 21B3Z chassis be earlier than a 1954 22A3? It's in Omaha which is a drive I could make there and back in a day and the auction ends in 4 days, so I'm stressing over whether I should pull the trigger on this or not. Can any of you Admiral experts provide some guidance? I did find a Service Manual for $24 for the 21B3Z chassis:

http://estoreoutwest.com/index.php?m...oducts_id=2177

But, I don't want to fork out 24 bucks only to figure out this model won't work. And I see there are SAMs available for the 21B3Z chassis as well, but I still have not been able to find out what model year this TV actually came out or if the chassis would work in a C2226. Any ideas, anyone?
Thanks!
Neil

Edit: The ebay link I copied and pasted doesn't appear to be working for some reason, but it comes up early on in an Ebay search of "vintage admiral tv". There are pictures of the back panel showing the model and chassis information.

I pulled out my master index of all Admiral models and chassis and found that the FA2326Z is from 1955.

I found the schematic in Beitmans Most Often Needed Additional 1955. It uses a 21AMP4 CRT which you can find dimensions for here: http://www.shinjo.info/frank/sheets/127/2/21AMP4.pdf

They don't show how the front controls are laid out or the chassis dimensions. The 21B3Z chassis is also covered in Riders vol 15 which I think I have. I'll try to dig it out tomorrow and see what they have to say.

Admiral didn't use sequential chassis #s so don't let that bother you. For example their earliest TV chassis is the 30A1.

I have a 21A3Z chassis setting here that I was keeping for the strong testing 21AMP4B. I was hoping to use that CRT as a backup for my RCA console, only I'm having outside edge focus issue when I try it in my set. I'm still hoping to get to the bottom of that problem, not really sure what causes it. I've also stolen some ferrite slugs out of the IF coils to fix another set, so it's not exactly a prime candidate for an easy restoration at this point. The Sams for this chassis is dated 4-55, set 275- folder 2. I can take measurements off of this chassis if that would help in any way. I'm thinking these mid 50's Admirals should be pretty common. Hold out for a while, and one will likely surface in your area. I'd hate to thing of having one shipped by UPS or such. I didn't notice where you are located?

Seems the set on ebay got relisted for $25 opening. Lookin' better. :yes:

Hmmmm...
 

Thanks for the help, guys!

The tube dimensions of the 21ZP4-B for the C2226 are listed as follows:

Overall Length: 23 1/32 +/- 3/8
Greatest Bulb Dimensions
Diagonal 21 7/32 +/- 3/16
Width 20 1/4 +/- 3/16
Height 15 9/16 +/- 3/16
Minimum Useful Screen Dimensions
Diagonal 20 1/8
Width 19 1/8
Height 14 3/16

The tube dimensions of the 21AMP4 for the FA2326Z:
Overall length: 20 7/16
Greatest Bulb Dimensions
Diagonal 21 3/8 +/- 3/16
Width 20 1/4 +/- 3/16
Height 16 3/8 +/- 3/16
Minimum Useful Screen Dimensions
Diagonal 20 1/4
Width 19 1/8
Height 15

So it looks like the tube height for the 21AMP4 is about an inch taller than the 21ZP4-B used in the C2226. Does this knock it out of consideration, or is it the measurement from the bottom of the chassis to the center of the tube that really matters?
Thanks,
Neil

Edit: I ask this, because if the tube is still centered properly in the bezel, then does it really matter if 3/8" is chopped off the top and bottom?

Edit2: The C2226 bezel opening measures 13 5/8" from top to bottom, so it would actually be about 1 3/8" of the 21AMP4 tube covered at the top and bottom, IF the tube is still centered in the bezel with the 21B3Z chassis. Again, hmmmm...

Hi Kevin,
Did some measurements of the shaft holes in the C2226 trim. 14 1/2" between the volume and tuner hole centers, 6 1/2" between the tone and horizontal hold hole centers, and 4" between the brightness and vertical hold hole centers as best as I can tell with a tape measurer. If you have time to see if your 21A3Z shafts match up pretty close, that would be great. I'm in NW Arkansas, so I could make the drive to Omaha and back in a day to pick up the FA2326Z, but that would still be close to a couple hundred bucks in gas. I'm beginning to wonder if this whole exercise of trying to substitute a 21B3Z chassis for the C2226 model is worth the uncertainty based on the differences in the tube dimensions. The seller on Ebay says the TV will "power up" but there's "no picture". I asked her if she means that there's nothing at all on the screen or if she gets any light or snow at all. Still waiting on a reply, but if there's snow coming up on the screen then this may still be promising.

Don't think the FA2326Z is going to work out...
 

OK, I got clever and downloaded the photo of the FA2326Z from Ebay and then took a new photo of my C2226 from a similar angle. Started playing in Photoshop and scaled the two photos so the TVs were the same size and overlayed the two photos with tranparency. The knobs lined up, but the FA2326Z bezel opening height was was clearly taller than that of the C2226 which would go along with the tube dimensions. I'm sad to say that I think this is going to be a bit too much of a stretch to retrofit the FA2326Z chassis and tube into the C2226. *sigh* The wait continues. Thanks again for the help, everyone.

1954 C2246 - could this be a candidate?
 

OMG OMG OMG! What do you guys think of this 1954 C2246 21" as a possibility for a replacement chassis for my C2226?

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...oQeVcaKgP3I2ow

Does anyone have sams data on this model or possibly know the chassis number? The guy says the tube needs to be replaced, but otherwise was in working condition. He wants $275 which seems a might steep, plus I'd have to drive from Arkansas to Wisconsin to pick it up... BUT, if it has a chassis that will work and is in the condition that's described, I'd do it in a heartbeat.

What say you guys?

Thanks!
Neil

Well the CRT looks more squared off to me, perhaps it's just the angle, if they are both 1954 I can't imagine it being more square, it could be one of the Cylindrical tubes though like the 21ZP4 (I think that's one of them).

$275 is highway robbery for that set but I can understand paying it in your case, I paid more than that to have my "Family set" shipped across county White Glove style.

Hi Eric,
I took a photo of mine from a similar angle and compared - they look pretty much the same with the camera perspective skewing all the angles. Fingers crossed!
Thanks,
Neil

Here's a link to a 1954 Admiral photo of model C2236 from the TV History site. Probably the same chassis but different cabinet style:http://www.tvhistory.tv/1954-Admiral-C2236A.JPG

Also from the TV History site is Admiral model:CA2246 which is listed as a 1955 model: http://www.tvhistory.tv/1955-Admiral-CA2246.JPG

-Steve D.

Neil,

Sorry for not responding earlier, I was not ignoring you. I somehow lost track of your thread and never seen your above post. :o

It does look like the shaft spacing on my 21A3Z chassis are the same as your measurements. Also the middle of the CRT sets up 12 1/4" from the chassis base, 20 1/2" to the top of the CRT. Happy to take any more measurements for you. Again sorry for not paying better attention and feel free to send me a pm wake up call.

If you look at the pictures in the links provided by Steve D there's no doubt that the CRT is more squared off on the 1955 set.

The spacing on the controls appears to be different also, different chassis numbers as well.

Found this ad for the Admiral C2246. Advertised as a 1954 model but probably built in late 1954 and also sold in the 1955 model line up:
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/...2BJI4Y%2BL.jpg
Eric is correct in that this set may not fit your Admiral C2226.
IMO,the seller wants way to much for his C2246.

-Steve D.

Models CA2236 and CA2246 are both covered in Sams 266-1. CA2236 uses chassis 19L2, while CA2246 uses 19WB1. CRT's listed are 21WP4, 21ZP4A,B and 17BP4. Doesn't say which CRT goes in which chassis. [edit] Looking at the Sams, it looks like these sets only use 3 controls behind the center pencil box door.

Hi Kevin,
Thanks so much for having a look, but I had pretty much ruled out the 21x3Z chassis because even though it's still a 21", the tube height dimensions were considerably taller, or more square overall. I just checked the C2226 cabinet and it looks like the measurement from the chassis tray up to the center of the tube glass is just over 11". No worries - Again, I'm thankful you took the time to try and help out:-)
Cheers,
Neil

Thanks again everybody - looks like this was another false alarm. Gosh dangit, it's so darn distressing to look for months and finally think you have something only to find out some fiddly bit ain't right. I think the three control design behind the pencil box door Kevin pointed out explains my main concern, which was the door did look considerably smaller than what's on the C2226. You guys excuse me while I go walk this off. Ughhhhh... Guess I'll keep looking, but this was tremendously discouraging to say the least. Again, really appreciate everyone's help. You guys are great:-)
Best regards,
Neil

hello
free if u want or need it
come and get it
Admiral Super Cascode
Model CA2327ZN
chassis 21B3Z Run14
it worked 2 yr ago

tv has been in my utility room for at least 2 yrs
looks reasonably good for an old blondie
i did wipe off most of the grunge u see in picture

21B3Z should have a 21AMP4 CRT. It's covered in Sams 275-2 along with my 21A3Z.

Thanks Rob, Kevin, yeah that 21AMP4 CRT is an inch taller than the 21ZP4-B used in the C2226. Rob, I think your chassis would fit as far as the controls go, but it was designed for the squarer, taller CRT, so the tube center would sit too high in my cabinet, unfortunately. I certainly appreciate the offer!

Hey Kevin,
The guy that had the C2246 called this morning, and he confirmed that there were only 3 controls in the pencil box, so your assessment was spot on - thanks for saving me some major heartache. Prior to reading your post, I had assumed that all the 1954 models had 4 controls. I'm learning that one cannot "assume" anything in these endeavors...
Cheers,
Neil

Well, looky here folks! I present to you a one owner C2226Z, now in my possession!
 

Thanks to Kevin K who tipped me off to this jewel, I now have a complete, one owner Admiral model C2226Z. Had to drive to Rochester Minnesota and back this last weekend to pick it up, and the last 200 miles to get there was through blowing snow that started in Des Moines, Iowa and didn't let up until we had nearly arrived. The set belonged to a retired couple who said they bought the TV new. It was working up until a few years ago, at which time a friend of theirs who used to be in the TV repair business fixed it for them. It worked a little while longer before going dark again, but by then their friend had passed on sadly. So, they put it on Craig's list where Kevin saw it and kindly notified me. Good thing he did, because I had very nearly written this project off!

The set has sound but no picture, and no static can be felt from the front of the CRT. Initial inspection without removing the chassis with the set turned on revealed that all the tubes that I can see that are not in cans are lit, and the CRT glows at the rear.

You can see some plastic residue laying on the chassis below the CRT in the pictures, and it looks like it came off a cover from around a copper coil(?) toward the back of the tube that has deteriorated. Forgive me as I'm not versed in the vernacular of all the various parts yet.

Kevin mentioned that all the set may need is to be recapped. I could see a couple of the old paper caps and they don't appear to have been replaced as part of the previous repair.

Would y'all agree that recapping the set should be the first step, or does that plastic residue indicate another problem?

Thanks!!

Well, looky here folks! I present to you a one owner C2226Z, now in my possession!
 

Thanks to Kevin K who tipped me off to this jewel, I now have a complete, one owner Admiral model C2226Z. Had to drive to Rochester Minnesota and back this last weekend to pick it up, and the last 200 miles to get there was through blowing snow that started in Des Moines, Iowa and didn't let until we had nearly arrived. The set belonged to a retired couple who said they bought the TV new. It was working up until a few years ago, at which time a friend of theirs who used to be in the TV repair business fixed it for them. It worked a little while longer before going dark again, but by then their friend had passed on sadly. So, they put it on Craig's list where Kevin saw it and kindly notified me. Good thing he did, because I had very nearly written this project off!

The set has sound but no picture, and no static can be felt from the front of the CRT. Initial inspection without removing the chassis with the set turned on revealed that all the tubes that I can see that are not in cans are lit, and the CRT glows at the rear.

You can see some plastic residue laying on the chassis below the CRT in the pictures, and it looks like it came off a cover from around a copper coil(?) toward the back of the tube that has deteriorated. Forgive me as I'm not versed in the vernacular of all the various parts yet.

Kevin mentioned that all the set may need is to be recapped. I could see a couple of the old paper caps and they don't appear to have been replaced as part of the previous repair.

Would y'all agree that recapping the set should be the first step, or does that plastic residue indicate another problem?

Thanks!!

Before replacing caps, I usually do some preliminary inspection, cleanup, and tube testing/cleaning:

http://www.antiqueradio.org/FirstStepsInRestoration.htm

The following page lists articles about restoring various old B/W sets. None of them is exactly like yours, but if you skim a couple of the B/W articles, that should give you an idea what's usually involved in getting an old TV to work reliably:

http://www.antiqueradio.org/restoration.htm

Some plastic flaking off a coil doesn't seem like a big problem. If you have never restored a tube radio or TV before, consider practicing on a simple tube radio before tackling a TV.

Phil Nelson
Phil's Old Radios
http://antiqueradio.org/index.html

Funny you mention starting with an antique radio, Phil. The same couple also gave me an old RCA 9-X-571 radio that's not working.

Sorry about the earlier duplicate post, everyone - not sure how that happened. I hit the back button a couple times after the first post and somehow ended up with a duplicate.

The 9-X-571 is a much more appropriate beginner's project. This article has advice about recapping:

http://antiqueradio.org/recap.htm

Phil Nelson

Hey Neil, glad to hear you got yourselves and the set back home safe and sound. Sure was not the nicest weakend for TV retrieval. :no:

Hard to tell from the photo where that black plastic came from.

Take your time and try to resist jumping into the TV restoration too fast. Good idea to tackle the radio first. Do you have any experience working on any type of electronics? Hopefully you have a digital or analog multi-meter for taking voltage and resistance measurements?

Hi Kevin - back in the day when I was working for General Dynamics, I wired up prototype field replaceable units for the F-16. Something the old-timers there taught me was that all electronic devices run on smoke, and that if you let the smoke out, the device will cease to operate... LOL! Since then I've soldered up this and that over the years. One of the other companies I worked for was having a trivia contest one year and the grand prize was a trip somewhere, can't remember where to. Anyway we needed a device with a button for each of two contestants so whoever hit their button first when they thought they had the answer would lock out the other contestant and trigger a light on either side indicating who was first. Then you could hit a button to reset the system and clear the lights, ready for the next question. Wired that all up from scratch and it worked well - I think I may still have that thing down in the basement somewhere. I'd be hard pressed to tell you how I did it now, that was a long time ago. So the short answer is yes, I've been around electricky stuff over the years, and I do own a multimeter.

I've had better trips for sure. As I mentioned, driving the last 200 miles from Des Moines to Rochester Saturday night we had blowing snow and I could see barely see the lines on the road and only maybe three or four cars ahead at times. Being from Arkansas, I figured I'd do as the Romans do and go with the flow, but folks were still driving 60 - 70 mph. All I could think of was this is how pile ups happen, but what do I know. Folks up there are seasoned veterans when it comes to driving in the snow, I reckon:-) We spent the night, picked up the TV Sunday morning, and then it was smooth sailing heading back in the daylight, thank goodness!

That was probably the TOTL 21" model that year.
I see it uses the 6V6GT audio output tube. That model doesn't use the audio output as a voltage devider.
I also see that the CRT was replaced with a Sylvania. A better chance of it being good. The plastic crumbs are probably from the yoke. :sigh:

It looks like this set also uses dc coupling from the video detector all the way to the CRT cathode. A practice most manufactures had abandoned by the mid 50's.