My 630
 

Hi All;
I just got a 630 chassis and 10BP4 CRT tube from MikeH.. I used the Money that was origionally going for the Caps for the 8T243, that I have.. But, I think I got a great deal.. THANK YOU Mike.. :banana: :banana: So, now I will need to make a new Cap list.. I have NOT plugged it in, Nor am I planning on doing so.. I have been so scared, about doing so, from the Discussions.. And I don't want to get into that, here.. It has got alot of surface dirt, but otherwise it looks good.. I plan on checking the tubes, and stuff like that, which doesn't cost me anything.. I want to do this set RIGHT !!! I hope Bandersen hurries up and makes his 630 Videos.. THANK YOU to everyone for all the Help and support.. I almost forgot, Anyone who wants to have someone nice and caring and helpful, would do well dealing with Mike.. THANK YOU Mike, you went beyond what anyone would expect..
THANK YOU Marty

Hi All;
I am still Drooling all over the chassis.. But, I guess that is one way to clean it up..
THANK YOU Marty

Yeah, I will be starting on mine soon. I got all the parts a couple weeks ago :) Good luck with yours.

Hi All;
I got tubes preliminary checked, no shorts.. My tube checker is acting a little funny, so for now.. I will leave it as is.. Cleaned the Chassis, took out all the pieces of leaves from under the tubes and cleaned all the tubes.. I have Found and decided what to do about my Bleeder resistor problem.. I still need to ohm out the Transformers.. And start doing a resistor check.. When I can afford it, I will get the Electrolytics,, and then do an initial power up, to see what else shows up.. With Variac..
THANK YOU Marty

Hi All;
Power Transformer seems to ohm out OK.. :D That's a relief .. I wouldn't be a happy camper otherwise..
THANK YOU Marty

1) Take your time-Haste makes waste
2) Quit before you get frustrated-It'll be there tomorrow when you're fresh & not aggervated
3) If you don't know, ask questions
4)Take your time-Haste makes waste
5) Just THINK what you're gonna have when you get done...And you did it YRSELF..

Hi All;
Yes, Sandy, But the last time I asked for some advice.. I didn't get any answers.. Tomorrow, I plan to Put a light Bulb in series with the Power Transformer and checking all the voltages.. That is with all the Tubes Taken out, so all I'm checking is the Power Transformer, all by itself.. And then do some cleaning of the chassis.. And, Just so you know, I learned about TV's and voltage, especially high voltage, when I was a kid.. Been, shocked a few times.. And, yes it bears repeating, even for us old guys, as well as the youngsters of today..
THANK YOU Marty

Hi All;
I have powered up the transformer, thru a light bulb.. The Voltages, are all OK.. Thank Goodness.. :banana:
THANK YOU Marty

Hi All;
I have started to Pull Caps.. I take a picture, pull a wire or part lead off, take some more pictures, pull another lead, take some more pictures, etc., until only the Cap is left.. Then go on to the next Cap.. When I go to put something back in, (I haven't decided, just what or what method I will use for Recapping) I will still Ohm out each wire, as a double check.. But, pictures are worth more than just guessing, even with an ohm meter..
THANK YOU Marty

Sounds like a good plan. Glad your transformer is OK :thmbsp:

Hi All;
I just got Tonight, the Electrolytic caps that I need for my 630TS.. I found that when I ordered only what I needed. And only the Electrolytics, I have been able to keep the cost down, by alot.. Aftetr selling some equipment, I had enough to get the caps.. My roomate figured out how to take the cans apart, So the next step is filling the cans.. Since I am sick or at least no energy, I can't say how soon or late it will be to complete the task.. After that I will bring it up with a Variac..
THANK YOU Marty

Good luck with the restuffing. I find restuffing electrolytic capacitors to be quite a chore, but of course well worth the effort in the end. I look forward to seeing your progress as I am also working on a 630ts.

Hi All;
VTS, I know that, and watch with interest what you encounter and your progress.. Once, I get mine so, I can power it up, then we can compare notes.. Thank You for your help and support.. I am hoping that Bandersen will have time in the near future to work on His 630.. His videos are so good, and are of immense help.. I also, greatly appreciate all of the many guys who have been doing thing for so long and know that to do, at the drop of a hat or cap.. I look at your video, and don't see half of the stuff that they see.. I'll need to re-look at it again..
THANK YOU Marty

In case you haven't already seen them . . .

This recapping article covers various methods of restuffing electrolytic cans:

http://www.antiqueradio.org/recap.htm

And this article describes 630TS restoration:

http://www.antiqueradio.org/RCA630TSTelevision.htm

Regards,

Phil Nelson
Phil's Old Radios
http://antiqueradio.org/index.html

This is where I learned how to restuff electrolytic cans.
http://www.picturetrail.com/sfx/album/view/22501148
It is in a sticky on the tech forum here. I'm still working on getting the crimp to look original when I'm done. Although you can't see that part of the job after you mount the can, I still like it to look as untouched as I can. My best advice is to work the crimp section off of the can as slowly and deliberately as you can. The cleaner you can get that to straighten out, the cleaner it will be to "re-crimp" it back into place.

Hi All;
I had looked at the various articles and youtube postings on Restuffing of the Caps.. But, my problem was and is, that with my Bad eyesight, I couldn't always tell exactly what was being done.. So, when I first tried it, I was doing it wrong, but my roomate looked at the videos and the pictures and He immediately knew what I was doing wrong.. I just couldn't tell from the pictures.. So He will take them apart for me, and since I can't always tell with enough detail what I am doing and what I need to do.. But, we have this worked out He does the dis-assembly and assembly, I do the electrical or electronic part..
THANK YOU Marty

Hi All;
I have all six of the Electrolytics stuffed and all but one re-folded so it all stays together.. My roomate when He comes back will take care of this last one.. I next will be starting to wire them all in.. I in a sense can't wait till everything is wired in and I can make an attempt to bring the set up for the first time, via a Variac.. But, still being weak and having the chills, I will be taking my time on the wiring.. Don't want to make any wiring mistakes, either from being in too much of a hurry or not watching what I an doing and looking at both on the schematics and on the set itself.. Ohm and yellow highlight, recheck and ohm again.. And if need be check pictures..
THANK YOU Marty

I've not been anywheres this neat when I've restuffed cans. Or more precisely I've just hacksawed off the can just above the rubber insulator, while it's still on the chassis. And put one of the bigger replacements above chassis, and smaller ones tied to the terminals below chassis. That way, I don't have to unsolder the wiring under the chassis. Looks fairly ugly, though... I just think of the old cap's terminals as a terminal strip now.

Hi All;
I have all six all crimpted and ready to re-mount in the chassis.. If, possible we'll see after I remount them.. But, to me It just isn't right to cut them off from the outside.. But, I may find out that I have no other choice.. If, the remount doesn't work.. Now to start the wiring..
THANK YOU Marty

I would like to "remove and uncrimp" all of my bad electrolytic capacitors, but I had poor luck trying to unsolder the twisted tabs that were attached to the chassis on my 8TS30, even with a 140-watt soldering gun. I ended up using the "saw off and epoxy the cover on later" method mostly. The re-crimped capacitors definitely look the best, but there is also the tradeoff of removing their wiring and reinstalling it later, with the risks of breaking something.

Hi All;
Yea, Chris, That has and is a concern of mine.. I guess I was happy that I was able to unsolder everything and have only one broken tab.. And my other concern is that either I might not get it wired correctly or loose a wire or two.. I guess that is part of the trade off, You cut them off on the top and leave the wiring or take them out and hope that the re-wiring is OK..
THANK YOU Marty

Hi All;
Earlier today, I finished wiring ALL the Electrolytic caps up, (the last 6 wires), I have been doing them a little at a time, and as I have had the time and the energy, since being sick and just finished checking the Electrolytics with an ohm meter for correct connections, not for value.. :banana:
I have two resistors to put in (R186A, 93 ohms and R240, 12 ohms), before I can hook it up to the lightbulb and Variac, and see what the voltages look like.. I am trying to be extra cautious with both the bulb and the variac..
THANK YOU Marty

Hi All;
I have put in the two Resistors, And with both a Bulb and Variac, I have tried the unit.. The Output from the Transformer is fine, but I get really Low voltage, DC out.. From the Resistor Divider, So, I have Checked the voltage on the Rectifier tubes, still low.. Filaments show 3.4 Volts, after taking the Bulb out it was up to 4.7 volts.. So, next, I will Dis-connect the wire from pin 8 and see what the Rectifiers put out by themselves, If it is still Low, then I know it is my Tubes.. And not Bad load, somewhere else.. But, If it is Higher, then, something in the Cap or Load or the diviver section then something is most likely wired wrong..
THANK YOU Marty

Hi All;
At 60 volts input and with the Bulb in place, I get 160 volts Dc Output on pin 8 of the Rectifier.. I have only one Rectifier tube in Place.. I will test each Rectifier individually.. This Proves that something is Bad, Somewhere down the line, from the Rectifier..
THANK YOU Marty

With the Bulb out and full line voltage on the primary, what voltage are you seeing on the 6.3V heater supply? Is it signifigantly plus or minus a nominal 6.3 VAC?
Leave the first filter cap in-circuit so your meter will see pure DC. Or else it will read the averaged-out value of the supply (ie., it will read low). This is assuming you're using an analog meter. A digital meter will go nuts on unfiltered ripple voltage.
With no load, it will probably read signifigantly higher than nominal. But be sure the first filter cap is rated for the higher voltage.
As an alternative to leaving the first filter cap in-circuit, you could jumper in a cap temporarily. Anywhere upward 10 mf or so would be plenty (with adequate voltage rating).

Hi All;
Old Coot, Thanks for the input.. I have tried all three rectifier tubes by themselves.. At 60 volts plus Bulb input to the transformer, I get about 160 volts from the Rectifier tubes, each checked by itself.. This is with a DMM and no Cap.. There are no other tubes in the Set.. Don't want to create other unwanted problems.. So, next, I will do as you have suggested, Tieing on one cap and so forth at a time, until I find what is pulling things low.. But, this way, at least I know that it is not the Rectifier tube that was causing the problem.. Thanks for your help and suggestions.. More updates, as I work my way thru things.. In answer to your Heater voltage The 5U4 is a 5 Volt tube, and so my readings of 3.4 volts and 4.7 volts were for the Rectifier Tubes, not for the other Heaters, ever though I had in the past check the other Heater voltages before I plugged in the Rectifiers, and they were OK..
THANK YOU Marty

Hi All;
Just a note, I am sure Glad that I used BOTH the Bulb and the Variac for my initial power up, I think it might have saved my Transformers butt as well as mine.. Since the Bulb was glowing brightly, yet not in later tests with just the Rectifier.. Which also shows it had too much load or short..
THANK YOU Marty

What wattage was the Bulb you were using? If it was low wattage (25 or 40 watt) it probably lit fairly bright from the heater load of all the tubes.
Typically, a 'dim bulb' setup will use bulbs of different wattages (something like 25, 40, 75, 100 and maybe 150). A high wattage bulb will barely glow (if at all) at normal current draw whereas lower wattage bulbs will glow brighter at normal draw.

Hi All;
Old Coot, I have been using a 40 Watt Bulb, But remember I stated I had only two tubes Plugged in Both 5U4's, and at present only One 5U4 is plugged in, I am working my way down the Cap and Choke coil and Cap line.. I am waitng for my Iron to warm up to take out another wire, so I only have Cap Choke and Cap hooked in..
THANK YOU Marty

Is there any chance one of the replacement electrolytics could've got installed backwards?
I been looking at the schematic posted by Vts1134 in another thread in another forum. Is this the same schematic you're using? If so, it incorrectly shows C220C with its negative side to ground and its positive side to the negative 100V supply rail. I.e., it's shown backward.
If connected as shown in the schematic, it would definitely be a problem.

Hi All;
Old Coot, Yes, it is the same Schematic.. I cannot take that Cap apart, again it would destroy it.. But, I can unwire that one from ground and install an external Cap.. All three Caps in that Can are wired with common Negative connection..
THANK YOU Marty

Hi All;
All I have at present is one Electrolytic Cap that is 350 Volt at 10 MFD.. It calls for a 150 Volt at 80 MFD.. I could try the 10 MFD just to see If it makes any difference.. While disconnecting the one in the Can.. I am going to look at the old Can and see IF it has that one cap internally wired Backward in reference to the others..
THANK YOU Marty

Hi All;
Old Coot, I just looked at the Can and it has (as near as I can tell) the negative as the common point.. I also, Just looked at the Sams and It also shows that the + (positive) side of that cap going to Ground..
On another Cap the (C225) on the Riders, When C225A is connected to Cap C221B, then the voltage goes LOW, about 45 volts at 120 volt input to the transformer, But when C225 is not connected to C221B, the the Voltage is about 230 volts, still slightly low, by 70 Volts, but that could just be my Rectifier, since they are all old Tubes.. So when C225 is connected either what is connected on the other side of it or the other Cap, Is pulling things down.. I have yet to disconnect the rest of the wires from C225 to see IF it has any affect on the Voltage Dropping..
THANK YOU Marty

If all three are wired with common negative, that would be correct. AND the common negative should be 'floating' above ground since it is the negative supply rail (or buss). It is floating and not shorted to ground, isn't it? Looks like it should show around 500-600 ohms to ground, with a bit of variation when you turn the focus control.
Good. Then Sams has it correct.
Have you checked the Horz centering and Vert centering controls? Both should be 20 ohms according to the schematic. An open element in either one could really screw things up since they're both in series in the B+ chain feeding out to the 275V buss.

Um.. You are taking your voltage reading at the 275V source, right?

And another thought.. is the center tap of the power xfmr's HV winding connected to the common-negative 100V buss? In re-reading your thread, you mentioned some strangely low B+ readings coming out of the 5U4s. An unconnected or mis-connected center tap could do this.

Hi all;
Old Coot, I guess I am a little mixed up from your previous postings.. I take it that my Cap is OK, and NOT wired Backwards.. From what you have last written..
At present when I am measuring my voltages I have been measuring from Pin 8 of the 5U4 and not from the 275 Volt tap at present.. My DMM is attached to Chassis Ground on one side and pin 8 on the other side.. Since it is connected to something that is causing it to show a low value..
You, may be right in that it could be either Centering pot..
Tomorrow I plan on unhooking all the connections to the negative side and the other cap positive side, to see if the problem still exists, these seem to be the connections to the Centering pots.. Then connecting the other wires on till I find the Culprit that is bringing the whole system down.. This is before it even gets to the 275 Volt tap and so it still could be something that the Tap is tied to and not the centering pots.. So, I have alot of places to check..
And, Yes, the Center tap on the Transformer is connected to C221 Common can side, which is above and Isolated from ground..

Yes, as long as C220C, the negative supply filter, has its positive end to ground, it is correct.
This is with nothing else (except the filament) connected to pin 8, right?
As mentioned earlier, the meter has to see pure, filtered DC in order to get an accurate reading of the B+ coming out of the 5U4. You mentioned having a 10mf/350V cap available. Did you try jumpering it between pin 8 and ground? This would allow the meter to give a pure, no-load DC reading.
Good. And what is the resistance from that point to ground? It should be the additive resistances of the focus coil, ion trap coil, and bleeder string R185a, R186a, and R186b. It looks like around 500 - 600 ohms. And it should vary slightly with turning the focus control. Does it?

As far as the V and H centering pots, it should take only a few seconds to check 'em with with an ohmeter (on the RX1 scale).

But the very first thing is to establish how much juice is coming out of the 5U4 pin 8.

Hi All;
Old Coot, The Cap C220C is wired Correctly, Thank You for the clearification..
I have (for now) a wire connected to the 5U4 Pin 8 which goes to the meter.. Pin 8 is also connected to C221A, C220A, C220C, as well as the field coil, which connects to C221B at present and with one rectifier tube in gives a voltage of 230 Volts.. I had at first nothing connected to the 5U4, but right after checking that I connected back C221A and after working my way thru the field coil connections It also was then connected, along with the related caps.. So I didn't connect in the 10MFD 350 volt cap, since I had the others in.. I had only suggested it as a sub for C220C if it was backwards, which it is not..
At present the Centering pots and the focus coil are not connected to it.. I have not measured the Resistance in them, yet, But I can do that after I finish this posting..
I have been trying to work my way thru each wire and each section one at a time.. I have at present as stated above 230 Volts and that is without the focus coil and the Resistor dividers and the Centering pots..
I next want to put in C222A and make sure it is OK, I also will put in the Second Rectifier tube to see if the Initial voltage coming out of the Tubes will increase with the addition of the second tube.. And then I can see what I can do with C225A and C225B..
THANK YOU Marty

Hi All;
Old Coot, With the second Rectifier plugged in the Voltage dropped to 200 Volts on pin 8.. And the Bulb lit up.. I took out the Bulb and left the rest the same, it now reads 270 Volts at pin 8.. Which is close to the 300 volts specified, for that pin..
So now my Question, Should I leave out the Bulb or for safety sake keep it in for the present while I am testing ???
THANK YOU Marty

???Are you saying the focus coil and resistors R185a, R186a, R186b are not in-circuit? If so, then there is no path to ground for the center tap of the power xfmr. The CT has to have a path to ground before the 5U4 can supply the correct B+ voltage. Or is the focus coil simply unplugged, leaving R182, R183, and the focus control still in-circuit?

Again, what is the resistance between the power xfmr CT and ground?
Probably the filament load of the second 5U4 lugged the primary down, lighting the Bulb and dropping the secondary voltages.
For now, leave the Bulb in, stay with a single 5U4 until you find out the resistance between the power xfmr CT and ground.

Once you verify the CT has the proper path to ground, stick both 5U4s in and get rid of the Bulb, and bring the primary up slowly toward full line voltage while monitoring the B+ at pin 8 (being sure not to exceed voltage rating of the new filters).

Hi All;
Old Coot, again you are right, I have NO resistance from the Center tap of the transformer to ground.. I didn't notice their relationship, while taking things out.. I am in the process of measuring these for a resistance value.. Both the Horizontal and Vertical Pots measure about 20 ohms and the wipers work in both of them.. Then I will connect the ion coil and the focus coil and let you know what changes..
THANK YOU marty