RCA 8PCS41 from CL update
 

Well if I wasn't crazy already this should push me over the edge. :yes:

I found this locally while browsing Craigslist last night, it was obviously rough but I wasn't quite expecting this. I took my CRT tester with me because there was no way I was bringing this home if the CRT was bad, it turned out to be a GE replacement, it started off in the high red zone but after 10 seconds at 8 volts it shot up to high green and stayed there at 6.3 so I figure it has some life left in it, what the screen and mirror looks like is anyone's guess but I expect some screen burn, that won't hurt anything though.

The main chassis is amazingly clean and rust free, it's well protected inside the cabinet, the only somewhat rusty dirty chassis is the main power supply, this was a Mouse House for quite some time and it got peed on.
The inside of the HV cage was stuffed full of grass, obviously their home but it looks rust free for the most part an nothing looks chewed on so I think it'll be OK too.

The cabinet...well it's a horrible mess, the good points are that nothing seems warped, it's complete except for the back, and the doors all open and close as they should and the panels look flat, the bad is that there's a lot of loose joints and bad Veneer, the front can probably be saved but everything else needs redone including some of the substrate material. The screen looks okay and it lifts and closes fairly smoothly.


http://vintagetvsets.com/images/8pcs...rontclosed.jpg
http://vintagetvsets.com/images/8pcs41/8pcsback.jpg
http://vintagetvsets.com/images/8pcs...nsideempty.jpg
http://vintagetvsets.com/images/8pcs41/8pcsleftlegs.jpg
http://vintagetvsets.com/images/8pcs41/8pcstopleft.jpg
http://vintagetvsets.com/images/8pcs...srightside.jpg
http://vintagetvsets.com/images/8pcs...wersuppies.jpg
http://vintagetvsets.com/images/8pcs41/8pcshvcage.jpg
http://vintagetvsets.com/images/8pcs41/8pcsscreen.jpg

This will be a challenge on all fronts, but I hope you make it light up and play again.
Once you get everything working you'll be surprised at the picture it makes. A 25 inch diagonal picture was unheard of in 1949. Direct view sets that size didn't appear until 4 or 5 years later. From across the room it is bright and has good detail. Best luck!

Eric:

Every TV collector needs at least one projection set in their collection! You will probably need to have the mirror resilvered and if you do I can give you the name of the place that did mine. Let me know if you would like a photocopy of the owners manual.

Steve

That's going to be a nice set when you get it restored. It has 4 separate chassis, and lots and lots of electrolytics and wax caps. The 5TP4 runs at about 24KV. The HV section has a tube tripler, which is kind of unique. Treat the canvas cloth shroud very carefully, as they become quite brittle and fall apart easily. I've got two RCA projection sets myself, and I had to have a reproduction shroud custom tailored for my second set, as my original literally fell apart in my hands. Look forward to seeing your restoration thread.

Hi Steve, I already have a Philco 48-2500 that I haven't finished yet but I like the screen on the RCA better.
I would love a copy of the manual, I'll P.M. you with my address. Thank you.

I took the cabinet to my back patio and sprayed a 50% mixture of Clorox in the cabinet and rinsed it out, it still has some globs of "stuff" stuck to the bottom but at least I feel a little better about the sanitation issues.

The chassis's don't bother me so much, I can just take my time and do one at a time but the cabinet is daunting, I always seem to get held up on the cabinet because I don't like doing them and don't really have the tools to do much serious work.

The cloth shroud on this one is in good shape, it doesn't seem to be at all rotted or brittle.

Does anyone know how the HV Umbilical unhooks from the HV cage? It seems to slide out a little and stop, do I have to unscrew something from the underside to remove it? It's difficult moving the HV cage and the CRT barrel around together.

Wow! Nice find :thmbsp: That's going to be quite a project. Good luck :yes:

The HV umbilical doesn't separate from the HV cage without unsoldering it from the third HV rectifier, and you can't get to it with the HV cage still installed in the cabinet. You need to separate the umbilical from the CRT/optics barrel instead. Unplug the CRT socket and the deflection yoke socket, remove the plastic cover at the top of the optics barrel, remove the yoke, unplug the second anode lead from the CRT and then remove the CRT. Be careful you don't lose the anode spring clip. The entire metal bracket that holds the CRT is connected to the HV and the spring clip connects them electrically. Once you have the anode lead removed, you can remove the HV umbilical by unscrewing the fitting at the side of the optics barrel and pulling the umbilical out. It took me a while to figure all this out on my first projection set.

http://www.videokarma.org/showthread.php?t=256597

http://www.videokarma.org/showthread.php?t=252908

When removing the HV cable from the optics barrel, make note of which side of the plastic lens is "up". If reinstalled upside down, you will not be able to focus the image on the screen.

A bit of good news with this set!

I took the CRT out so I could transport the parts to work to clean them up, the face of the CRT has ZERO screen burn so I'm guessing it's a very low hour tube.
Also, even though it's branded General Electric, the EIA code is 274 so it was made by RCA.

The mirror is nearly perfect! It had a little dead grass sitting on it but it didn't affect it at all. It's stamped with the serial number and it was made by Bendix Aviation.

Wish you lived closer-We have a Furniture Restorer in this town that could make that cabinet at least as good as new...I've eused him a BUNCH of times, & he's NEVER failed to make something "Knock Yer Socks Off"...

Hi John is there a difference in the clear lens?

That projection TV cabinet has a classical look and will make a great looking TV.
I like the square cabinet pulls on yours over the other design that looks like bedroom furniture.

Hope you continue this restoration thread.
I too have a Philco 48-2500 and have dreamed of finding an RCA projection TV like yours.

Carl

I did some clean up on the various chassis today, they all came out remarkably nice, especially the HV cage which was full of dried grass where the Mice had made a home. There is almost no rust at all in that and just a bit on the power supply chassis.

I used purple cleaner and a brush and rinsed them with hot water, even the Flyback got a bath but I was careful not to let water get in the bottoms of the power transformers or on the paper Capacitor covers. I also didn't allow water to get in the big Focus pot in the HV cage.

I baked them in the Oven tonight at 185 degrees for about an hour to dry, they won't be powered up for who knows how long so they'll be good and dry when they are.

I also cleaned the projector barrel.

I've washed off chassis's before to - even with a garden hose.
If you are careful like you described should be ok.
Its nice to have a clean chassis to work on.

Carl

Here is an RCA 8PSC41 one like yours on Ebay:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-RCA-...item27d1508306

Man. the wood grain in those cabinets are gorgeous.
Yours will look like that too once you get the dirt and grime off it.
Folks in the Radio Forum talk about the "treatment" - a simple way to
bring out the beauty in wood without refinishing. Just clean the cabinet
and the use the smooth NON-PUMICE non-gritty GoJo hand cleaner.
Then follow with Johnsons Wax.

Carl

Wow...nice clean up job. I would not have recognized the chassis. That's going to be a sweet set when you get it done.

The horror show that is the cabinet.
 

I decided to take the cabinet further apart and inspect it closer, it's truly a nightmare.

I realized this is probably going to have to be knocked apart down to the last board, repair or replace whatever is falling apart or destroyed and reassembled.
This is beyond what I am capable of or have the tools for but luckily my best friend and his Dad are both expert cabinet makers, I talked to the Dad last night about doing the repairs on this and he said he'd take a look at it.

I figure I can do a lot of the taking apart and he can fabricate new parts as needed and glue up the stuff that's complicated, like the feet that are all busted up, i can do the Veneer and refinish it if need be.
It'll probably cost me a fair bit but it's not going to get done any other way.

If you want to see the HD photos of the cabinet in all it's lack of glory, I posted them here:
http://vintagetvsets.com/images/8pcs41/

Luckily the upper mirror is in good shape, it's got a film on it but I think it'll clean off, it's not corroded at all, also the screen is is great shape.

I discovered while washing it that the screen isn't just a simple piece of frosted Plastic, it's actually a Fresnel Lens! There's a circular pattern of grooves on the back side of it, the side you view has the texture of brushed Stainless Steel, I will need to be VERY careful with this since it's irreplaceable with anything but the OEM part.

The horror show that is the cabinet.
 

I decided to take the cabinet further apart and inspect it closer, it's truly a nightmare.

I realized this is probably going to have to be knocked apart down to the last board, repair or replace whatever is falling apart or destroyed and reassembled.
This is beyond what I am capable of or have the tools for but luckily my best friend and his Dad are both expert cabinet makers, I talked to the Dad last night about doing the repairs on this and he said he'd take a look at it.

I figure I can do a lot of the taking apart and he can fabricate new parts as needed and glue up the stuff that's complicated, like the feet that are all busted up, i can do the Veneer and refinish it if need be.
It'll probably cost me a fair bit but it's not going to get done any other way.

If you want to see the HD photos of the cabinet in all it's lack of glory, I posted them here:
http://vintagetvsets.com/images/8pcs41/

Luckily the upper mirror is in good shape, it's got a film on it but I think it'll clean off, it's not corroded at all, also the screen is is great shape.

I discovered while washing it that the screen isn't just a simple piece of frosted Plastic, it's actually a Fresnel Lens! There's a circular pattern of grooves on the back side of it, the side you view has the texture of brushed Stainless Steel, I will need to be VERY careful with this since it's irreplaceable with anything but the OEM part.

On the chassis side of things I have replaced all the paper caps in the audio chassis and removed the filter can for restuffing. The can has a couple of odd sized sections of 70 mfd, I've never seen 70 mfd before, 40 & 80 yes but 70 seems weird, I reckon 80 is close enough.

Just got done on Mouser ordering 22 Electrolytics for this and three 1000v film caps that I don't stock.

I started working on the cabinet, I figured the only way to do it was to start at the bottom (literally) and work my way up.
To that end I dismantled the cabinet, first by removing the base from the upper part, later I will rebuild the sides and then move on to the top. Taking it apart was fairly simple since all the glue joints are pretty well shot.

First task was to rebuild the feet, they were solid but had some cracks from having been wet. The front feet are made in two pieces and one of them had come apart so I had to re-glue it.

I took the base completely apart, removed all the dowel pins, sanded everything clean, filled in any damaged spots, filled in the cracks and chips on the feet and sanded them smooth.

I also took the lower shelf apart because the plywood is coming apart at the edges.
I glued it together and it has a 200 lb tool box sitting on it right now to press it flat while it sets up, if i can't make it look satisfactory (or get rid of the Mouse smell) then I'll have a new piece of Plywood cut for it and glue the original edge parts on it.

I plan on toning the base with a dark toner to hide the crack repairs in the feet.
The sides of the cabinet will likely need replaced, or at least stripped bare, glued and re-veneered. Luckily the pop up lid where the screen is is in good shape, just a strip and stain should fix it right up. I'll also be replacing every wood screw in the cabinet with new ones, they are all pretty rusty.

The Capacitors should be here tomorrow so I can start on the chassis soon.

http://vintagetvsets.com/images/8pcs41/base-1.jpg
http://vintagetvsets.com/images/8pcs41/floor-1.jpg
http://vintagetvsets.com/images/8pcs41/floor-2.jpg
http://vintagetvsets.com/images/8pcs41/floor-3.jpg
http://vintagetvsets.com/images/8pcs41/foot-1.jpg
http://vintagetvsets.com/images/8pcs41/foot-2.jpg
http://vintagetvsets.com/images/8pcs41/foot-3.jpg
http://vintagetvsets.com/images/8pcs41/foot-4.jpg

Eric, I can tell its a labor of love.
One nice thing about your efforts and expense is that it should turn
out to be a beautiful set. The Mahagony wood patterns in those
RCA sets are very eye appealing.

BTW, you mentioned the Fresnel Lens Screen - can you tell me more about it
as compared to the screen in the Philco 48-2500. Your restoration has
piqued my interest and would love to find one this year at the ETF convention.

Carl

Hi Carl, The main difference between the Philco and the RCA is the Philco is a front projector and the RCA is a rear projector.


The RCA screen is a flat sheet of translucent Plastic with a series of fine concentric rings molded into it to amplify the light.
Wiki has an article about how Fresnel lenses work.

The Philco uses a sheet of Stainless Steel mounted so it's forced into a slight parabolic shape.
It has fine vertical grooves cut into it and is coated with a Lacquer type coating that contains microscopic glass beads to reflect and disperse the light hitting it.

Hey Eric, make sure you use Titebond wood glue. It's the best, as you will soon see what I had to do to my recently shipped and broken CTC7. I did a strength test with a similar piece of wood like on my set and broke it, glued it together crudely and I had to hit it with a hammer until it fell apart. It never did break where it was originally. Amazing stuff, that glue is:) Good luck on this one, it'll be a ton of work but it will pay off. I can't wait to see it all done. Personally, I love cabinet repair. Lucky for my shipper too. I'da taken his head off if I didn't know woodworking:D

Hi, Eric.
One thing I've found out about finnishes, especially on RCA equipment.
While RCA certainly did do some cases in brown mahoganny, they never did a mix, and, match. I see yours was originally red mahoganny.
RCA put a deep red on first to darken the color, and, give it the red look. Then, they put a brown stain over that to soften it up a bit.
Not such a cherry mahoganny look that way, more of a soft, dark red.
That poor thing looks scary to me. I sure hope that hv section comes back. I think that's thw worst I've ever seen.
Good luck on this set. Wish I had a projection set of my own.
Bill Cahill

Not me.... Bob's Halli was much worse.

http://antiquetvguy.com/Web%20Pages/...-21CK801M.html


I've had my own problems with cabinets. The CTC-7 with photo finish I rehabbed is something I would not want to do again, but the result speaks for itself. I think from now on I will pass on sets with shabby cabinets, recapping and alignments are more my style anyhow.

Wow! What a project that Hallicrafters was!!
Excellent job!
Give me more hope on my RCA 8TR29. It was less than half as bad, and, I still am having agc problems with it, even though the set now plays.
If anyone is interested, find my link at bottom of post to my forums, go to antique televisions, and look at al the pages of my set so far under RCA Vitor tv. A new dog in the family. It plays!
I think you will succeed. You always do, and, your knowledge is far above mine.
Bill Cahill

I remember reading thru all of the National Radio Institute TV service instruction books when I was young in the 1960's. There were lots of views of the RCA projection sets like yours. I marveled at them, but never saw one in real life.

I'm really glad you got your set. So far, your progress has been GREAT!! I look forward to your updates!

Bruce

I got the base section put back together, I was able to glue the plywood back together so I didn't have to make a new one.

It's nice and solid now, there are some small gaps at the joints but that's unavoidable due to some shrinkage, they aren't bad and won't be noticeable unless someone gets on their hands and knees and inspects it with a magnifying glass. The base will also be toned a darker color to hide the crack repairs.

I came to the realization that perfection isn't going to happen with this cabinet so I'll just have to settle for solid and presentable.

I tried fitting the cabinet top to the bottom and realized I forgot to rebuild the intermediate section that joins the two, that should be easy, it's just three strips of hardwood, that will make a nice color break point between the base and the rest of the cabinet.

I've also started recapping the chassis, done with the Audio, working on the HV section now, got three of the cans done but I will have to make new paper covers since I had to destroy the old ones to get them apart.

I also need to replace a few bits of rubber covered wire here and there, I think the 22ga solid core 600 volt wire that AES sells should look about right?


I am fortunate to have my faithful friend Otto working quality control, or perhaps he just smells a Mouse.

Nice work.. I see no major shrinkage. Looks good, under the circumstances.
Bill Cahill

I've completed recapping on the Horizontal/High Voltage section, the entire horizontal sweep section is inside the big cage.
Four multi section electrolytics, all with lots of connections to them made it quite a chore, there are four more cans on the i.f. chassis as well but for now this is enough to test for high voltage, really high voltage, more than a 21" Color Roundie!

Both of the 6BG6's in this set were weak, I found a couple good ones and replaced them, the metal 6AC7 Horiz AFC looked totally fried and checked dead as a doornail, though I could feel the heater getting warm, found a good used one to replace that.

First I had to hook all the chassis together, plus a resistor pack, the switch and the interlock switch.

First attempt on the Variac, two of the 5U4's on the PS aren't lighting up, wiggled them around a bit and they came on (note to self, clean the sockets).

Second attempt, getting a couple thousand volts at the Anode but two of the three 1B3's I picked at random from my stash are lighting up purple, replaced them with three, brand new, Russian made 1B3's from the case of 50 I bought a decade ago.

Third attempt, success, though I can hear something arcing down in the cage, I'm getting 28k (or darn close) at the second Anode! :yes: (note to self, don't slip and touch the Second Anode :no:)

On the Cabinet front, I got the base reassembled and glued the connecting section back to the main cabinet, I haven't joined the main cabinet to the base yet because I want to stain and tone the base first.

This was in much worse shape than I first thought, lots of delamination on the sides, the veneer on the top will need replaced, the veneer on the sides may be repairable or I will replace it all whichever is easiest, the fortunate thing is all the book matched crotch-wood on the front is in good condition, a few cracks here and there but they won't show.

I reflowed the Lacquer on the control panel, it still has some issues so I will attempt to improve it some more. Basically I just poured Lacquer Thinner all over it, brushed it around and and let it soak, it clarified it greatly but there is some grit and bubbles in it so a second try is needed.

There is supposed to be a Mohawk dealer near me so I need to take a drive over there and see what Toners they have, it would be much easier in person that trying to figure out what color I need over the Internet.

Your efforts and work in all areas of the restoration of this set are great.
I hope you enjoy watching some "Old TV Programs" on it when you finish.
Watching this thread is both interesting and educational.
Thanks for all your documentation and pictures.:thmbsp:

Keep on posting what you are doing and pictures.
I like to see what makes these old TVs work again.

Carl

its turning out vary nice ,i think it's great to take something that everyone [frends / family ] thinks is beyond repair and why did you bring that home for ,and restore it to better than new condition .

Thanks guys, I was thinking no one was reading these posts.

Anyways, here's a few more pictures.

The Shroud for the optics is in rough shape, it wouldn't be all that bad except it looks like the Mice ate a big hole in it, other than that it could be fixed with some iron on patches.

I have a nifty 1953 Swiss made Elna Sewing machine (bought it cheap because it looked so totally cool) and I think I might be able to figure out how to use it well enough to make a new shroud, it's not that complicated really, probably should be Fire Retardant material considering the potential for arcing and what not.
I washed the old one today at work in a bucket of hot water and Purple Cleaner, the water turned to blackish muck, possibly some of it was the black dye but most of it was years of smoke and dirt.

I took out the upper mirror so I could work on the pop up lid, the mirror is in pretty good shape but looked a little hazy. I hosed it off in the Tub and rubbed it gently with a soft cloth to remove the film, it came out better but it still has some haze, I think it'll work OK though. It's a surface coated mirror of course so a common back coated mirror won't work correctly.

I have been experimenting with Stain to see what color it should be.

Originality is out the window with this set, it's so far removed from factory now I just want it to look good, even if it's not exactly the right color.
The Base is such a mish-mosh of Glue and Filler that it won't take stain evenly, it's going to have to be toned somewhat dark to hide the flaws, the rest of the cabinet is either in good shape or will have new Veneer so it should be OK to stain and Lacquer.

I have some new Poplar Crossbanding material on the way, this goes between the Plywood and the Veneer to provide a smooth surface for it to stick to.
The two top edges and front on either side of the screen are the worst, I'm just going to replace the crossbanding and veneer there, the sides I will attempt to repair the Veneer, worst case I rip it all off and replace it too.

The other option was to build a new cabinet out of Cardboard boxes and Duct Tape. :D

Sure, we're reading them :yes:
One option for the base might be to use pigment based (opaque) rather than dye based (transparent) toners. That way you don't have to go dark and the flaws will be hidden. So will all the grain but I'm guessing that doesn't matter at this point.

Mohawk calls them 'Tone Finish Toners' and you've got quite a palette to choose from: http://www.mohawk-finishing.com/cata...asp?ictNbr=170
Perhaps 'Medium Red /Shading Mahogany' ?

The base wood probably doesn't have interesting grain in the first place, so pigmented toner should be no problem.

That machine rules. You're leaving it to me in your will, right? :)

http://antiqueradio.org/art/temp/BozoApproved.jpg

Phil Nelson

I found a Mohawk Distributor about 30 miles from me so I went this past weekend and bought a few cans of Toner in different shades.

I tried a light dusting of Deep Red Mahogany on this section of the front and it looks pretty nice, the stuff is really dark though so when I say "light dusting" it was really just that, any more and it would be too dark to see the pattern, perhaps just right for the base though.

The last picture is from an eBay auction and shows what it should look like, it gives a nice color reference, or at least as nice as possible given the variables in photography, it seems to match up OK with the undamaged parts of my set at least.

The bottom doors (one door, one dummy door actually) seem to be a darker color than the top sections, that could just be the different way the grain reflects the light though.

Its already looking great. The grain patterns in the wood work is
something you just don't see in any furniture today.

Carl

Eric,

I definitely have been following this thread and watching for the differences between your 1948 built set and my 1949 built one.

The bottom platform in your set with the 9 holes drilled around the light barrel hole for mounting, definitely proves that my 1949 was not done after it left the factory as it only has three holes. The 1949 8PCS41 is electrically identical to the 9PC41 and apparently always included the remote that was optional in the 9PC41. The remote was not available on the 1948 model.


The grain on the top imitation drawers runs one direction, while the grain on the bottom door and dummy door runs the opposite, so it is expected that light plays differently on these.

The only picture of my 1949 8PCS41 in the sunshine is in the fifth post in the thread at

http://www.videokarma.org/showthread.php?t=254448

In this picture the angle of the sun makes the bottom seem brighter.

My wife took the picture just as the set was about to jump in the back of my car to follow me home.

By the way, the backside of many of the dummy doors have a surface that does not show and can be used as a testing surface for stain matching.

James

Polishing the hardware
 

Something easy to do in between cabinet repairs.

Polishing up the Door Pulls, solid Brass of course, no plastic or fake Chrome here. :D