Help Identify My New Zenith
 

Okay, just picked up a new Zenith, but beyond the chassis number, I have no idea what model it is. It looks like an Avanti, but I'm sure it would have such markings somewhere on it.

Also, I'm attaching a few pictures of issues I've discovered. If I have the chassis number correct, Sams Photofacts has the manual for it I can purchase (unless someone knows where I can get one for free). The issues in the pictures are: The center of the image seems stretched. In one picture you can see the person in the center of the screen look normal chest to head and knees to feet, but the entire mid section is stretched. In another image you can see a test pattern that should have a white line, but it is actually showing up as blue and red distortion on the line. In the last two, one is with the Chromatic setting off (looks okay) and the second is with it turned on (orange and loss of detail and most colors).

I'm having trouble setting proper brightness, contrast, color and tint. I've been using Video Essentials like I did with my other Chromacolor 2, but this one is not cooperating. It blooms easily, gets a blue raster when setting the brightness, can't set the color and tint with the test pattern and blue filter. Yellows are more orange than should be, etc.

Anyway, I'm gonna go about cleaning the inside this weekend and sure would love to get this set looking as good as my other Chromacolor 2 you guys have helped me fix up.

Thanks

It is an Avanti(Zenith usually did not put the cabinet name on their sets), and a good one...That if I'm correct is the SS horizontal flat chassis that can keep working come hell fire or high water.

That 'stretched' effect on the image is a vertical linearity issue. The way I see it the entire image above his waist is stretched or the entire area below his waist is compressed(depending on how you look at it). That can likely be cured by feeding a pattern of evenly spaced horizontal bars to the set and adjusting the Vertical height and linearity controls until the spacing of the bars on screen is even(you may have to tweak the vertical centering too).

If it is going blue with different brightness settings then you need to readjust CRT bias. With a blank raster turn the brightness and color level controls to minimum, flip the service switch on the back to collapse the vertical deflection, and turn all the rear screen(sometimes labeled G2) controls to minimum(for this part have a mirror set up so you can watch the set while adjusting the rear controls) then turn red up until a dim red line appears, turn the green back up until you have yellow, and turn the blue back up until you have white, flip the service switch back to normal position to reactivate vertical deflection, and turn brightness up until satisfactory. Now play a gray scale test pattern, and if the gray scale is still tinted there should be some red,green,blue level controls other than the screen controls to adjust tweak those to kill the tint in the monochrome picture. Make sure you also dial in the brightness and contrast to acceptable levels.

After that is done turn the color level up and place a color bars test pattern on the screen and adjust hue and color level for most accurate reasonably saturated color, switch to live action content and tweak hue and possibly color level controls for good skin tones if need be.

The problem with that white line is one of two things. It is either a convergence or usually in curable video design limitation. Get a test pattern with wider monochrome cross hatched bars and see if the bars are color fringed or pure white when displayed. If fringed readjust convergence. If the fringes disappear then what is happening is that the vertical line you were displaying is so thin that the frequency of the pulse representing it is high enough to be above the cutoff of the high pass filter for the chroma circuits and thus cause monochrome noise to leak into chroma circuits. This set predates comb and notch filters so color noise gets into the black and white image and black and white noise gets into the color circuits by the limitations of the design.

There are probably adjustments for the chromatic somewhere. The chromatic was basically just another set of controls for brightness contrast, hue, and color level that could be switched in in place of the user controls so that if someone monkeyed with the user controls and you were in a hurry or you could not get them right your self you could push the button to 'fix it'. The chromatic adjustments drift with time and when you resetup the set like the above screens adjustment I mentioned.

And make SURE the safety caps in the horiz. out area have been updated...

What's with the mess in the general area of the flyback anode cap? I'm wondering if it might have something to do with the problems you're experiencing.

Before you dig in do 2 things.
1)Clean the crap out of the anode area & anode wires. Pull the
connector off & make the area shiny up to the dag coating.
Do not use anything abrasive. I always used 91% isopropal
alcohol.
2)be sure ALL the 22-5001 safety caps have been changed from
the white ones to the orange drop style. IIRC there are 2 on the
flyback board & 3 under the chassis nearby. Looks like at least
one has been changed.

The chromatic switches to a second set of identical controls &
also affects the tint range. The brightness, contrast, color
& tint controls have hollow shafts. A thin screwdriver adjusts the
chromatic on settings.

After steps 1 & 2 fix the lin problem & get the pix as perfect a B&W
pix as you can THEN turn up the color...........

You are truely blessed. You own what is the best color TV chassis
ever built by anyone, anywhere, at any time. And a remote too !!!!

73 Zeno:smoke:

this is the best set ever produced.period.no discussion.and the topper is,its an avanti!lucky guy.the issues are minor,just adjustments.do a quick set up and enjoy the beautiful picture for years to come.dream set for most of us and you got one

Okay, lots of responses, so I'll try to respond to all here.

I'm glad it's an Avanti. It's what I've been looking for. Picked it up in Malibu for 50.00.

I purchased the Sams Photofacts for the chassis and did the brightness limiter. I then tried the grayscale adjustments and that's where I ran into an issue. I turned the color control down, turned the red, blue and green fully counterclockwise and set the taps to HI. I then put it into service mode. I was able to get a raster line for the blue and green, but not red. If I turned up the color control, the red line would appear, but wasn't as sharp as the other color lines. Is this normal or is there something I should be looking for that could cause this?

I have a CRT tester and a color bar generator coming on Wednesday. In the mean time, I've vacuumed as much as I can and now need to get in between stuff. Is a soft bristle toothbrush okay for cleaning (no solvent). What are good ways to do the cleaning? Also, is there a way to get the plastic stand a bit more on the white side? I tried a magic eraser, but it didn't work. I think the plastic has yellowed down quite a bit from the surface.

Thanks for the all the great information and advice. I know will all your help she'll be up and going great soon.

Sounds like you either have a problem with the red G2 control or a bad red gun inside the CRT. I don't recall ever seeing a bad CRT in one of these; but, there's a first time for everything. I do seem to remember the G2 controls would sometimes burn open and you could also have a bad red video output transistor or a dirty transistor socket.

I just watched an episode of Kojak (on MeTV) in which a Zenith Avanti color TV like yours was featured in an apartment. However, your Avanti is in excellent shape for being well over 35 years old. The white pedestal base on these sets often turns yellow with age, but yours seems to have escaped that, at least for now. Congratulations on finding one of these in nearly pristine condition.

I agree that the 4-lead safety capacitors should be tested and replaced if necessary, before the TV is used any length of time. I don't know how much you know about color-TV high-voltage systems, but one serious problem that can occur with them if the safety capacitor(s) should short or open is that the CRT second-anode voltage will go sky-high, often causing the neck to shear off the tube. I don't know what type of CRT the Avantis used, but if they are rare (or at least difficult to find), it is best to correct any HV problems before the original tube is damaged or destroyed.

Good luck. Your Avanti should give you many years of good service, once the HV safety capacitor(s) are replaced and the area around the second-anode connector is cleaned well. Dirt, dust or other foreign matter in that area of the CRT, especially under the rubber 2nd-anode cap, can and often does cause HV arcing, which in solid-state TVs can destroy parts such as the HV tripler. These may well be NLA (no longer available) for this set at this late date, so anything you can do to keep the original in good shape will be worth the effort.

IN the Radio electronics magazine in the 70's, I seem to recall an article by Jack Darr about thie safety cap issue in solid state color tv sets. . I think it was called "how to troubleshoot tuned circuits" or such, and described the cap issue. He claimed some engineer had said on a test in some lab with a failed safety cap--the HV could EXCEED 40 KILOVOLTS!!

I just repaired the burned G2 Pot on my avanti a little while ago. They are a special pot, plastic snap in body. On mine it was the blue screen, I would go from very blue tint to almost no blue tint in just the slightest movement of the pot.

never,ever saw a bad crt in a zenith flat or vertical chassis set.i have one here that is not quite up to par but still makes a fine picture.it tests out at about 60 percent all the way around.look at the crt socket also.post more pictures!

G-2 pots were a common prob. on the hoz & vert SS chassis & hybrids.
63- 10136,7,&8 IIRC. The vert chassis 19ec45 etc used different
pins but could interchange them all.

73 Zeno:smoke:

Easily. First flat chassis we saw with bad caps the boss told me to plug it in.
It was like a thunderstorm in a box. huge arcs all over the bell &
at the divider which was burned in half. Scared the crap out of me.
New divider & caps & like new again.

73 Zeno:smoke:

If you are cleaning the chassis just use a paint brush & vacuum.
Just be careful you dont suck up the plug in transistors.

If the base is solid white plastic you may be able to buff it out.
You can flip the set on its side & experiment on the bottom
assuming its yellowed there to. If you find something that works
take the base off to do it. And if it works tell us !

73 Zeno

I think I'm going to remove the chassis and put it on a bench for cleaning and testing. The manual has all the resistances and other figures. I'll also make sure the safety caps are done and do them if not. This will then allow me to clean the inside of the cabinet as well.

Now the set has been unplugged for over 24 hrs, but I don't know if that's enough time for an residual voltage to dissipate. I think the procedure is to take a long screwdriver, wrap a wire around the shaft and wrap the other end of the wire to the metal ground of the chassis and then slide the tip of the screwdriver under the cup and touch the connector, right? Or is the a better way to release any stored voltage?

Thanks

I'm attaching a few more pics. They are in the high voltage area. Is there anything that stands out? Are these the "safety" caps mentioned?

Yes and should be replaced BEfORE running the set again. Dont take a chance!

Well... I can't tell... is the orange drop tied into the white one? Is that how it is from the factory, or a lazy tech? The orange one is fine, white one is a no-no.
Everything else looks good, altho I see the focus divider is still in there. Nothing to really worry about, but.... they DID tend to go out quite frequently and there IS a tripler with an internal divider you can replace it with when/if it ever fails. You will know if it's bad if you have poor focus.
As for the picture tube, I've only seen ONE bad "Chromacolor" tube in my time. And surprisingly.. it was my Uncle's (the Zenith dealer) AND it was in a flat chassis set.
He obviously got the set new. It saw little use, and then went in storage for a few years. When it came out of storage, it had a dead gun that would NOT take a rejuvination. That had to have been a fluke. Now.. 25 years later...when I come across a Chromacoloer set, the tube is NEVER bad.

I found that I can access the bottom of the chassis if I put the set on its side and remove the stand, so that's what I did and took some pics. It looks much better on the bottom side, that's for sure.

So how many of those caps that should be replaced are there in this set? Seems the orange one can stay, but the white one it's tied to needs replacing. Is that it? Just the two? In the underside pics there are more of the orange ones and one of those white ones (on the underside of the high voltage area). Does that one need replacing as well?

Thanks

Well.. I would. I'm probably not the best one to chime in on this one tho, as I am not overly familiar with "newer" solid state stuff. I do know that Magnavox and Zenith used those white caps in the high voltage area, which tended to fail early. However... depending on when this was taken out of daily service, if it hasn't blown up by now, I wouldn't be overly concerned. IIRC it was the Chromacolor 2 chassis that had the problems, and Zenith did a huge recall, which I WAS involved with. Those caps failed fairly early in life. In repairs on the "newer" stuff ( after 1967 ) you are basically okay with the caps that are in there. Yes.. you will get many opinions, as some spaz and do a total recap, but, those sets did NOT use the ones that early sets did, so I'd hate to have you end up doing a needless recap on EVERYTHING.

I looked closer on the one orange and it is not soldered to the white one. It just looks that way. It is a replacement as they cut the leads and bent them into a "J" hook and soldered the orange one in. Kind of lazy as they should have done the other one at the same time. So that means I have one on top and one below that need replacing. The all have the markings of "special" and "22-5001", so they should be easy to get hold of. I check Mouser and they didn't have them, but another place did for roughly 6 bucks each. Other than those, all other caps appear in good condition (no bulging, corrosion, leaks, etc.).

I'll order the caps, clean the chassis and use some Deoxit on the G2 pots and see if that helps with the red G2 issue. By then I should have the CRT tester and pattern generator.

Oh, and one other odd thing. There are not date markings anywhere inside the set except for the long black cylinder on the under side of the chassis. It is dated March 10, 1973. I know this set isn't that old as it is a Space Command and I don't think they were made that early. Just kind of odd as my other CCII has the date in a few places in the cabinet.

oh.. I would suspect it's that old. I think the first Chromacolors rolled off the line in 69 or 70, then you had the solid state flat chassis, for a few years, and I think the CC2 line rolled off the line in 74 or 75.

also take a close up of the Zenith label on the picture tube.. THAT may have a code date. :)

4 lead caps were in 17/19/25EC45 chassii runs 401 and higher &
into the F line. Before run 401 they used the same seperate caps
this set has. Reason for seperate caps is if one or two open the
HV wont go nuts but you will see symptoms. 4 lead caps were meant to open
between the HOT E & ground or C to flyback to kill HV but it didnt
work. Small world a Sprague rep lived in town & had an Avanti
with 25EC45 ( or FC) & the cap went. He got the new Sprague
replacement & it failed !! Sprague failures were always an open
killing the HV or dead short.

I never saw or heard of a flat chassis cutting a neck. Had abt
5 EC45 chassis with massive damage. I think most were 19".
IIRC. The vert would fail & cause a lot of current through
the yoke cutting the neck. One of the reasons the vert had a fuse.
The flat chassis used a totally different vert circuit.
I also saw 2 Maggies with cut tubes, T993 ?? probably the same thing
so we just gave them back & told them to go to a Maggie shop.

73 Zeno:smoke:

Well this is the label, but there's no standard date on it, so maybe it's a code.

I just ordered a few of the 22-5001s from Talon Electronics. They NOS/OEM Zenith parts. Hopefully they'll be here early next week.

Time to break out the paint brush and vacuum and do some cleaning.

Zeno.. I LOVE your posts!
Replies are always dead on, and.. you kind of remind me of my Uncle.
I worked in his shop in high-school, and I remember the recall in the CC2 line. I can still picture the replacement kit. We lucked out, and only had 1 customer ( on a set we sold) with a necked tube. Zenith did the right thing tho, and paid for a new tube, even tho the set was out of warranty.
Why you remind me of him... I think it WAS the T993 chassis on Magnavox. He hated working on ANY Magnavox, and there were a few we saw with necked tubes, and he told them the SAME thing.. ( take it where you bought it)

Zenith started making Space Command equipped sets in 1955....Before they even sold color sets.

I guess what I meant was the CC2 Space Command Avanti. So did they make both the knob and remote versions at the same time (year)? If so, then I know the set isn't older than 3/10/73, but not sure when the last one was produced. Sure is odd there are no date markings.

Thank you for the kind words. I do try to keep things right
but I also use a lot of IIRC's. It has been 40 yrs and if I
am wrong I dont mind being corrected.
Aside from family the TV biz was the best times of my life.
Remembering back at the first flat chassis I saw it was
love at first site. I just wanted to stare at it & fondle it !!!
( no I am NOT a sicko ) I just knew even as a snot nosed
punk teen it was something special never to be improved
or matched, a one of a kind, a last shot of balls out
bullet proof US product.

Thanks for the memories 73 Zeno:smoke:

To find more dates look on the filter can, yoke, IC's, flyback,
controls. Almost always 4 numbers for week & year. Other
date schemes are usually unreadable. Dont remember the years Avantis
were made but believe it was C-F lines. And yes most major
console models came with or without remote.

BTW Avanti in Italian means roughly "forward" or "ahead". So
a Zenith Avanti or Studebaker Avanti are forward in styling etc.
Just another useless factoid...........


73 Zeno:smoke:

HA. Same here (with the IIRC)
When my Uncle got back from Vietnam, he bought out the Zenith dealer. ( I think in 1971) and I always LOVED hanging out in the store. By the late 70's, I worked there thru high-school. My memories are of the CC2 line and System 3. We hardly ever had a repair on anything he sold, except for a tripler once in awhile. Not sure if Zenith's liked to eat them, or if it was just the era where not everyone had A/C, and the Nebraska summers had anything to do with it. I loved house-call day. In that era, we made TONS of money of the POS CTC-38 chasis. Our town was small, but we had 2 other shops.. the Sylvania dealer and the RCA/Magnavox dealer. The RCA dealer had been in business since 1949, but once the old man died and the sons took over, the repairs they did left much to be desired, which.. kept us busy. Grandpa worked in the store as well. The most hated sets for us ( on the bench) were any catalog store sets, and Motorola color sets....
And yep.. the flat chassis set was m favorite. Would love to find one now.

I hope you discharged it first. ;)

Seriously though, not sick, just hardcore. I think the same can be said of a lot of us here.

i restored an avanti cabinet once for a friend.wesleys bleachwhite works very well as does butyl soap.will clean it up good and proper.just dont overclean it.noticed purple label crt.what is difference between that and the green label crts?

Well she's getting there (clean, that is). I got that sticky gunk off of the tube around and on the anode cup and wires. I had to use goo gone and follow up with a little windex. The sticky black stuff was also all over the yellow ground straps. They're nice an clean also. I was afraid to push too hard trying to clean around the yoke, so I think I'll get some long swabs for that. I also lost some of the inside cabinet markings by mistake. I was using a damp rag to wipe the side of the CRT and I brushed up against the inside cabinet and poof, the markings were gone with no effort at all (darn).

The place I ordered the orange drops from has already shipped. I should have them by Tue or Wed and can continue.

IIRC the labels with perfs & says Rauland div. are origional new
set tubes. Others are all new or rebuilt. I think rebuilds are yellow
tagged but its been toooo long.
Anyone else ?

73 Zeno:smoke:

i have green labels in all of my ccII sets.the purple label is in my later model ccII and i remember them in flat chassis sets.doubt if these are rebuilds.well gardner sets had green label rauland branded crts.un less the green labels were all rauland built and purple labels were built by someone else.someone please clear up this mystery!

Nice find!
 

Those flat chassis sets were workhorses - they'd eat a few caps, a diode or two, but they kept on plugging.

Here's some service gouge for your set - hope it helps.

Cheers,

I just got the non-remote non-avanti incarnation of this set for free.