Found a 19" Chromacolor II
 

I picked this up today, (not easy, it's heavy!) it has sound but no high voltage, hoping it's the Tripler since I have one of those on hand.

Guessing this is mid 70's, it's Solid State but old enough to have a Dot Matrix tube.

It's filthy and covered with nicotine residue and kind of abused with a chip out of the cabinet, or as they would say on eBay, "Mint".

I'll pop it open soon and take some inside pictures and try to find out why it doesn't work.

There's a sticker on the back from a defunct repair shop in Pomona CA, the place is now a Thrift Store.

https://maps.google.com/maps?q=908+e...12,141.86,,1,0

Got it running.
 

Did some poking around, checking voltages here and there (though I had no idea what they should be) when I touched my test lead to the large transistor on the Horiz board the set came to life with a loud pop of high voltage!
I had to poke it a few more times to get it to stay running but apparently the issue is just a cold solder joint on this transistor.

The CRT tests like new on all three guns and the cutoff is even on all three, hard to believe for a set that obviously has seen a lot of use.

The picture is pulled in on the sides just a little and the tint range is a little off to the green side, (also the tuner is very dirty, I had a hard time getting it to tune to channel 3 for the pictures) so it could use a good tune up but with such a great CRT this set should be worth the effort.

Those are great TV's. Before you do anything else, make sure the safety cap has been updated to the orange drop. If it still has the white cap (which, I doubt), it needs to be replaced before you turn it on again.

There's an electrolytic cap in the horizontal driver circuit that will cause picture pull-in and eventual shorting of the HOT.

Back in the mid '90's, I bought one of these for fifty cents at a church rummage sale. The tripler was arcing and created quite an odor. After replacement, it was an excellent TV.

Its a 17" E-line or poss F. Abt '74 or '75 I think they had better pix than the
19", always liked them. For the width also check the 1.5 ohm
resistor in the HOT base. For safety cap I dont see the label
we put on them. It may have separate 22-5001 caps on
the flyback & the bottom chassis. Change them all if it uses
them. If it has one big one with 4 wires under the HOT
heat sink change it if its white.
Up to run 400 uses separate caps.
Run 401 up uses one big cap.
good luck

73 Zeno:smoke:

The 17" set I had produced a better picture than the 19" sets and I liked the delta gun version over the later inline version.

i bought one of these 17 incers for my son back in the mid 70s.finest picture i ever saw .it lasted 10 years and when he left home,it went with him.though we have lost touch,10 years ago he still had it and actually was using it periodically.heavy as hell but the finest quality.this is a winner and a for sure keeper

Are these the caps (photo below?)

I resoldered the transistors on the Horiz board to try to cure the intermittent, it seemed to have worked but very shortly after turning it back on I started to hear some HV arcing and shortly it was shooting fire out the bottom of the tripler, hopefully it's not a runaway HV problem but I will need to replace those caps and the tripler before I try it again.

Rechecked the CRT and it's still fine.

Possibly the Tripler was what took this set out of service originally, I don't think that inch long crack happened instantly.
The intermittent connection may have come later, maybe when I fixed that it brought the HV up enough for the Tripler to start leaking again?

Will a 212-148-01 Tripler replace a 212 141 05? Turns out he one I have is totally wrong for this model so I will have to find another one.

I believe an NTE526 or ECG526 is what you are looking for. It's not uncommon for those triplers to crack and shoot fire. If possible, try to find a NOS tripler because a used one will likely fail soon. Tripler failures were very common in Zenith's. Those white caps need to go. Replace them with Sprague orange drops or another good brand of capacitor with the same or greater voltage rating and the capacitance value should be the same as the original capacitors.

Someone on eBay is selling safety caps, he has a .0018mf 1600v Zenith 22-5001 which is the same part number as mine but it's a 4 leg.

Someone else is selling a boatload of Triplers, both NOS and used but i don't need that many! http://www.ebay.com/itm/One-lot-of-v...item35ca874516

The 4 lead safety cap is located under or behind the HOT heatsink, IIRC.

You definitely want to replace this, because if it opens, the HV can rise high enough to potentially damage the CRT, flyback, or the replacement tripler. The HV can actually punch through the tube neck, and arc to ground through the yoke windings, cutting the neck right off in the process.

Don't put any white cap in this set, not even a NOS one.

If I can't find a NOS, four leg Zenith Orange drop can I just use a couple of any new .0018 1600 volt capacitors to replace them?
(m assuming that value from the eBay listing).

Yes, that should work fine. I did that to a 19" Magnavox that had a shorted 4-lead safety cap. It worked fine and didn't come back.

The final number for all 17" + Zenith uprights with delta tubes
is 921-500. In theory you can use any tripler from an upright
to replace it. Beware of other triplers, some are quadruplers
or have different internals, pinout etc.
You got the right caps, there are 2 more on the flyback IIRC
The OEM orange ones are still around NOS. Check that 1.5 ohm
while you got the chassis tilted back, replace it with a film or carbon not a
wire wound..........

73 Zeno:smoke:

I'm really confused about these triplers.

You are saying the 526 will replace the one in this set but it doesn't look right, it only has 4 connections where the OEM has 5.
One seems to have the focus divider built in, the other does not.
I have a 523 and it looks the same as the 526 but nothing like what's in my set.

The first picture below is a 526, the second is a 560. The second one looks like what I have but is not the correct number, should it work anyway?

I can't find the 921-500 number associated with a Tripler anywhere?

Also, I would like to replace the capacitors with an OEM Orange Drop but am not sure of the number of the replacement?
My caps are Zenith 22-5001 but I'm guessing the replacement has a new number?
Sorry, lots of questions but I appreciate the help!

I noticed the second anode on that 560 tripler is way to short, perhaps that's the reason for the different number?

Sorry I may be wrong on the 921-500, thats prob the sub
for the 121-831 HOT, hell its been how many years ??
Caps still are 22-5001.
Tripler subs to ECG526A or NTE526A.
The following also sub to same 212-141, -01, -02, -03, -04, & -05
The other tripler goes to a newer set with in line guns.
It wont help you.

73 Zeno:smoke:

Thanks for the info!

I have this Tripler already, bought it to replace the Tube Tripler in a Philco Projection set but never got around to that yet.

It has the number TCG 523 which I would assume is the same as an ECG 523, I was pretty sure the one in the set uses more than 4 connections but perhaps I was wrong, I need to pull it back apart and check.

Just took a look and my old Tripler has 4 connections, the one in the picture had 5 so maybe that's what confused me.

Do you think this 523 would work?

Well I went ahead and wired in the 523, it works, that is it makes HV and doesn't explode but I'm concerned about how much HV.

Not wanting to damage the CRT I did the the power up with the 2nd anode hooked to my HV probe, but not connected to the CRT, it has 36kv ! Seems a tad high for a 17" set, or even a 25" set.
Of course there's no load on it other than the probe so maybe it's OK, or maybe I have a bad safety cap?

I think I will replace the Safety caps before going any further.

36k is too much.is there a high voltage control?26k would be more like it.shouldnt be the tripler.look for safety cap problems also

Sounds like one or more of those safety caps has already opened and I wouldn't operate the set again with the CRT connected until the HV problem is fixed.

you need the 526 tripler?listed 523.

...

I'm using a 523 Tripler right now because that's what I had on hand, I don't know the specs on it, it could be a quadrupler for all I know.
Anyone have the specs for a 523?

Manual calls for 27.5 KV max. on the 17" (30kv on 19")
Measure it with no brightness.
Wrong tripler and/ or open caps.
Each cap that opens gives apx +2kv.
They may be causing the width problem also.
There is NO HV adjust or HV shutdown in this set.

73 Zeno:smoke:

I don't have any .0018 1600 volt caps handy, I do have some .001@10,000 volt ceramics, think they would do for a test? I could parallel a couple of them to get closer to .0018

NO ! they should be all changed to NOS, still good or not. If
the vert module fails due to them it can cut the neck off the
CRT. Some things you dont screw with, this is one of them.........
BTW if there are any old shops around check with them for parts.
They would LOVE to get rid of them.

73 Zeno:smoke:

I got this from George over at Talon. Attached is the cross for your tripler - it's a kit, and I dunno if they carry it.

I've got exactly ONE NOS 22-5001 left - you need more. Maybe a collective, some from here, some from there......

Cheers,

PS - PM me with your address and I'll send you my 22-5001. One down.....

Cheers,

I have 1-2 22-5001 also, orange drops not the white tubes

See? Collective parts scrounging :thmbsp:- it's what kept my dad in business for years. Three other TV shops in the collective, one ol' guy that had junk from Goodwill, and two sons that knew how to strip a color chassis to the frame. Those collective efforts saved the day when the distributor was out of stock, the part was needed on a Saturday evening, or when the dang part went NLA. Kind of like stone soup.....

I forgot to mention - mine is also the orange drop, new in the gaudy Zenith plastic bag.

Cheers,

Cool, I might have a lead on three of the Caps over at A.R.F. and a possible Tripler too so with one more Cap from you I should be good to go!

Good for you Erik -- I do hope ya get alot of enjoyment :)

Well I got one NOS Zenith 22-5001 and three Genuine NOS 1600 volt Orange Drops from 1979 so I installed all of them in place of the old white tubular caps and bingo, I now have a reasonable 26kv at the anode.
The picture isn't pulled in on the side anymore so probably the extreme HV was shrinking the picture before.

The set still has issues, the tint range won't stay put, something on the Chroma board is loose or dirty, it changes when I mess with it, also has some video smearing which might also be dirty connectors on the modules, the board connectors always were problematic on these sets even thirty+ years ago, we used to just solder them to the pins during service calls to make sure we didn't get a call back.

This whole set is very dirty so it'll probably get a total teardown and cleaning at some point, the only way to get the cabinet clean will be to wash it in the bathtub.

Sounds like you saved it just before it went BOOM. Just for fun, I'd check the old capacitors just to see how many are bad.

Here's another screen shot after resoldering the Chroma board, it's looking pretty good!

I'd check the old caps if I had a way to do so.

I remembered I have an old Eico Cap tester, all the caps cause a blip of the eye tube except this one, it's completely open.

Probably lucky only one was bad, who knows how high the voltage might have gone if both of them opened up.

I also don't know what took this set out of service, possibly the bad solder on the Horiz Driver transistor caused it to lose high voltage first, then when I fixed that the open cap (went bad while sitting perhaps?) blew out the Tripler?

I suspect this because the Tripler wasn't arcing at first, it wasn't until I soldered the Osc board that it started arcing.

On the other had the Tripler had a pretty large crack in it, more than I think it would have had in the breif time I ran it while arcing, so possibly that it had failed first because of the bad cap and the Osc board might have failed during storage.

It was rather fortunate it had no Oscillator because they no doubt plugged it in at the thrift before I got it, they might have run it long enough to do serious damage if it had fired up.

Nice work. A crude test on the caps is grab them by
the leads with needle noses & pull. They usually
come apart. Triplers cracked open left & right on
most sets back then. RCA seemed to have the least problem.
I remember now 977-36 was the latest # for this tripler.
Used to get them by the dozen from Zenith for $10
each, almost as good a profit as tubes.......

73 Zeno:smoke:

The polymide epoxy used as end seals on the white caps (Elmenco and ASI were two brands) shrinks over time, pulling away from the ceramic case. The impregnant leaks, and you have a bad cap. I've got NOS ceramic caps that went bad on the shelf - it was the epoxy end seals that failed, with no stress from being installed in anything. Heat accelerates the shrinkage, which is why the big .1/1000 in GE porta-pottys typically fails - it sits right next to a nice hot compactron.

The triplers were made either by VARO or EDI. EDI ones held up pretty good - they typically used a polypropylene shell that "gave" a bit when warm. This helped prevent cracking. VARO (light gray, or the ubiquitous Sylvania white) typically failed with cracking or arcing. VARO fixed their problems and outlasted EDI in making triplers. The replacement ones (ECG/SK/GE) were hit and miss, as you could have two same-marking ECG523s, one an early VARO and one a later one. They cleared up things somewhat in adding the "a" suffix to the ECG number. Occasionally the non-"a" triplers appear on eBay - avoid them unless there is a date code of 1980 or later, hard to tell in most photos.

The orange drops have differences too - the pulse rated ones (715P and 716P) are made of polypropylene (PP or even MPP) dielectric, and should be the ones used. The polyester ones (225P and 418P, and "PS" series) were for non-pulse coupling and bypass use, and should not be used in pulse applications such as safety caps. The higher voltage 225P and PS series caps were for buffer caps replacement in old car radios using a vibrator supply.

Cheers,